TR on Hartman

by wcooley on Oct 11, 2006 9:45 AM EDT Comment 60 comments

Terry Ryan was on the Chad Hartman Show on KFAN yesterday. Ryan was blunt about things as usual. These are my impressions from the segment, although if you think you have a different take feel free to add.

TR gave the distinct impression that he was going to spend ZERO dollars on offense this winter on the free agent market. He said he was happy with the offense this year and sounded a bit gun-shy over the Batista experiment and not landing Frank Thomas, which he characterized as "my fault." He said something to the effect of "we finally got to 800 runs and that's where we need to be."
When Hartman pressed him on this, saying that he thought that the Twins still needed to add a #3 hitter, Ryan reminded him that Mauer is only 23 and is expected to grow into that role. Interesting that Mauer won a batting title this year and both Ryan and Hartman sounded somewhat disappointed in his production. The impression that I got is that Ryan expects Mauer to be the "big bat" that many are looking for.
It sounded like Ryan would bring back Silva, saying that Carlos is "someone that Rick Anderson can work with."
Ryan said all loose change would be spent on starting pitching. He did not sound very confident in the young starters being ready, and stressed that the Twins identity is pitching and defense. He also stated that many of his moves will hinge on whether Liriano shows progress this fall.
He was unsure on bringing back Rondell White.

See the poll to register your opinion on the Twins' postseason

Poll

What did you take away from the Twins' postseason "performance"?

There is not enough Grain Belt in the fridge to make me forget this series

20 votes

The Twins were in the postseason?

10 votes

Erin Andrews is too thin

5 votes

Ron Gardenhire is the new Bobby Cox, aka "Dr. Strangemove"

3 votes

38 votes | Poll has closed

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The interview is on the KFAN site

http://www.kfan.com/cc-common/podcast/single_podcast.html?podcast=KFAN_Hartman.xml

by wcooley on Oct 11, 2006 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You forgot...

...the option on the poll where I can vote for: "Gardy's moves are just as mysterious as during the regular season, but more noticable in a short series."

by ubelmann on Oct 11, 2006 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Well,

whatever the logic behind the mystery of his regular season moves (if there is any) I can't argue with the results. Those still wedded to the notion that those division titles are a product of luck are just haters.

by wcooley on Oct 12, 2006 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about talent?

I don't think it's luck that the Twins have won the division titles, but I don't think Gardy has been especially key in winning those titles. I think he's had a lot of talent to work with.

I also think you could do worse than Gardy, but I would never mention him in a conversation about really good managers.

by ubelmann on Oct 12, 2006 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Talent

All manager are only as good as their talent, but I think it is debatable how much talent these teams have had. The Dougie, Rivas, Guzman, Koskie infield, for instance, doesn't look very talented in retrospect.

Gardy has had a lot of talent in the bullpen. He's also used that talent very well.

It's fun to second-guess the manager and to point out his shortcomings, that's part of being a fan. But as long as Pohlad owns the team and TR is GM, debates about Gardy's future with the Twins will be academic.

by wcooley on Oct 12, 2006 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Again...

...I think you're misunderstanding me here. I haven't campaigned for Gardy getting fired here--I've only expressed frustration over some of the decisions he makes because I personally feel they are sub-optimal.

I think the Twins could probably do better than Gardy, but there aren't that many guys out there who are both good at in-game strategies and good at keeping players in line. I don't see any obvious candidates out there that would do a whole lot better than Gardy. And teams just don't fire managers when they are winning. (It's a whole chapter in Earl Weaver's book on managing a baseball team.)

Like you said, though, it's fun to dissect his moves, so here we are.

by ubelmann on Oct 12, 2006 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fired

I didn't say that you were arguing he should be fired, just that he may not be getting the most out of his talent.

But plenty of other people do think he should be let go, or that he is an "idiot" or a "dunce" (see Adamonfirst's comment below).

And if people take the tack that Gardy won the first two titles by default because the rest of the division was horrible, then what do these people say about this year, when the Central was the best division in baseball and he still won it?

by wcooley on Oct 12, 2006 10:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That

That we wouldn't have been so far behind if he hadn't gotten o smitten of Juan Castro. That Miceahl Cuddyer proved he could have been a better player in years past had Gardenhire given him the chance. That Jaque Jones actually had a platoon split, but Jason Kubel NEVER did.

Also note I didn't call him a dunce, but I did say he plays the part sometimes.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 12, 2006 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cuddyer

That Miceahl Cuddyer proved he could have been a better player in years past had Gardenhire given him the chance.

He was given a chance in the past and he didn't take it. That he was able to at age 27 and not at age 25 is not exactly unusual.

by TT on Oct 13, 2006 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Chance

HE was never really given the chance he was this ear when everyone went down and the team basically sai, ok, you're there now. He was subjected to all the irrationalties of Gardy on young players before.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 13, 2006 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep...

Just like Bartlett, Cuddyer was never given a FULL chance. He'd hit great then have a little slump, and Gardy wouldn't let him stay in and make adjustments. We could have had this production from Cuddyer 3-4 years ago. Part of me even still wonders about Mike Restovich at this point.

Gardy better give Kubel a real shot (if he's healthy) next year.

by djskilbr on Oct 13, 2006 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Restovich

I still wonder if this guy COULD'VE developed into the DH/part-time outfielder...maybe up his skills as a first baseman that the Twins are missing...but like Sorrento who was cut too soon, Restovich and his Minnesota ties are long gone.

Ah...spare outfielders of the past: Ford, Rabe, Tyner. Ryan, Restovich, Kielty, Buchanan. Mohr, Allen, Barnes, McCracken, Cummings. Latham, Ochoa, Kelly, Brede, Cole. Where did they all go!

by twintown on Oct 13, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Restovich

Ah...spare outfielders of the past: Ford, Rabe, Tyner. Ryan, Restovich, Kielty, Buchanan. Mohr, Allen, Barnes, McCracken, Cummings. Latham, Ochoa, Kelly, Brede, Cole. Where did they all go!

by twintown on Oct 13, 2006 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Cuddyer and Kubel

HE was never really given the chance he was this ear

He was handed a job twice and told it was his.

I am sure getting a regular job and settling in helped Cuddyer. I think that was was what the Twins hoped would happen when they stuck him in the outfield mix in spring training and left him there.

Where are the people who were complaining about the same thing with Kubel after his hot June. How the Twins didn't give him a chance and should have just stuck him in the lineup. I'm sure they learned something from that that they can share here. Or maybe they didn't.

by TT on Oct 13, 2006 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ok

I wasn't commenting here yet but I don't think kubel should have be with the Club at all In April and should have never gotten those 16 at bats then and should have spent that time in AAA. Here's what I learned from that situation people with bad knees have a hard time swinging a bat when their knees start hurting them. And I don't think it's a coincidence that when Kubel started to play on turf his knees started hurting. As many others have said here too.

A guy that hasn't faced big league pitchers in real games in a year isn't exactly a good parallel I know no ones a exact match but let's remember having all of you ligaments in your chopped to bits isn't easy to recover from (See Culpepper, Daute) this year he was still playing with a brace in spring training and some set backs were a good possible one that I hoped wouldn't happen but it did. And in the month he received regular playing time this was his batting line .333/.365/.580 after that his knees started hurting and he waited 2 weeks then told the team after the all-star break.

His other line (the rest of his year) is like rondell white's from the first half of the year yet they kept playing him. This just goes to reinforce my view that if you don't impress Gardy right away and wait say a month to get hot it's already too late.

On An unrelated note I'll be interested to see what happens next April if Cuddyer struggles like he has before and if there's any difference in how Gardy plays him in comparison to white this year

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 13, 2006 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kubel

Kubel was getting messed qwith in most frsuterating fashion, and we were complaining about it. The fact he was platooning with Ford was ridiculous, especially considering Jones was never platooned. The whole thing served to prove how Gardenhire is with guys he is used to and guys he isn't (you gotta' be one of his guys).

Finally, Kubel was playing more and more everyday, partly because he was forcing the team to do so. We never, unfortunatly, got to see if he would havve been benched for some slumping, because his knees effectivly ended his sseason.

That was a most uinfortunate injury, and I think it has to be clear he'll never have all the tools he once did, but he can still be a very solid hitter and a decent outfiedler, and I hope he'll be healthy enough to do that this year.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 13, 2006 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

As much as I harp on the SS decision (giving Castro the job with just four starts in spring training), the right field decision making was even more suspect. He gave Kubel four starts spread out over 16 games. When Kubel struggled, he sent him down. The decisions to keep Kubel and send Bartlett down were made in the last week of spring training. It was like Gardy lost his head or something.

Kubel should have been sent to Rochester to start the year regardless of his hitting in a few spring training games. Cuddyer should have had right field to himself starting the year regardless of his hammy tweak. Bartlett....well you know how I feel.

I wrote a long diary coming out of spring training about these snap decisions by Gardy. I hope they fix this next spring. Fortunately, they won't have as many of these competitions in spring training and most of the players can relax and use the practice to get ready for their seasons. Considering how meaningles spring training at bats are (pitchers are just getting their work in), I'm surprised they place as much emphasis on spring training performances.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 13, 2006 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to be clear...

I wasn't saying that Gardy has messed up completely with Kubel yet. I was simply saying that IF Kubel is healthy in 2007 (as I expect) that I hope Gardy doesn't jerk him around like he did Cuddyer just a few years ago.

by djskilbr on Oct 13, 2006 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

One thing Cuddy and Kubel seem to have in common is the need to play everyday to get comfortable. Neither player hits well when they don't know when their next at bat will come.

I hope Kubel gets healthy enough to play Winter Ball, because it sure sounds like a repeat of last year with Bartlett. Ryan "strongly suggested" that Bartlett play Winter Ball. When Bartlett opted to work out at Lee County instead, his status with the organization was dropped down a notch, even to the point of several in the org suggesting that the Twins should acquire a shortstop and others saying this was Bartlett's last chance. That came after a pretty good second half of the year in the majors in 2005.

On Hartman, Ryan said his strongly suggesting that Kubel play Winter Ball makes it not really optional. But, in my view, Kubel should not play Winter Ball unless his legs are healthy. If playing Winter Ball prevents him from getting his legs healthy, he'll be worthless to the team in Spring Training. At that point, it will be too late to acquire a left fielder who can hit a little and play good defense. If Kubel's knees come around before Winter Ball, he'll be on track to be the everyday left fielder in 2007. If not, he'll be in Bartlett's position next year and possibly make a contribution in the second half.

We're kind of in the same boat this year as last relative to Liriano and Kubel. Both are huge question marks going into the offseason who have tremendous upside. If both get healthy enough to play as they are capable, I like our chances next year.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 13, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder.....

I almost wish they had shut down Kubel in August and just sent him to workout at Ft. Myers, prepping him for winter ball to see how his knees then responded, and then resting him again. Basically he has about a month off (not to mention his sitting on the bench) and then is playing full tilt again. I almost would rather have seen him play in the Florida Instructional League than going to South America for winter ball. The knees need more than a month of rest...they need rest. Then rehab. Then some play. Then some more rehab and rest. Then spring training. But I don't know...I'm just a fan or something.

by twintown on Oct 13, 2006 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If

If there is any one thing I have confidence in this organization for, its protecting young players. i believe the Twins are fully aware of the medical needs of Kubel and want him to do the best thing to prepare for next season.

I think that some of Ryan's concern is Kubel has not worked hard enough to rehab his knees to be ready for winter ball. This is a concern. If this is true, that Kubel hasn't worked hard enough, it has a number of causes that probably factor in more or less. The first being Kubel just isn't a hard enough rehabber. he doesn't hit the gym hard enough. I really hope that is alesser cause, because that attitude wont make you a good player. Another contributing factor was that they should have shut him down. By mid-August it was pretty clear he was doing nothing for the team and indeed he recieved very very few at bats the last 6 weeks. HE would almost definitely have been better off working out and playing a bit in the instructional league than sitting around on the bench watching the team play.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 13, 2006 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kubel's work habits

This is what Reusse suggested, that Kubel was not working very hard to rehab.

And unlike some other posters here, I think Pat Reusse is a very good baseball mind, a fantastic writer and a hard working reporter. I look forward to his columns.

by wcooley on Oct 15, 2006 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah

Well, as you know, I disagree with your opinion of Ruesse, though he isn't at least the active moron Souhan or Hartman are, but he still doesn't usually diagnose the problem well.

So we'll see how that turns out. I hope it was just sepculaion on his part and not something Ryna said.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 15, 2006 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reusse

Occasionally writes a column designed to inflame fans and drum up interest in his radio show. But I agree, he does understand the game better than most of the beat reporters.

by TT on Oct 15, 2006 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gopher Hockey

His Gopher hockey columns are hilarious. He always starts by admitting that he knows nothing about hockey, and then burns them. Then the Gopher rubes go haywire and charge that he knows nothing about hockey. When will they learn?

by wcooley on Oct 15, 2006 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In this case

I think Reusse is wrong. Reusse relies on insider Twins sources a lot and doesn't generally trust his own observations, so this likely came from someone inside the organization. I know that Kubel worked extremely hard in the offseason to get his knees in shape. And he was ahead of schedule in June when he hit like crazy. But he seemed to reinjure them around the time that Rondell White came back and Jayson Tyner started hitting well. So it's really hard to say whether he struggled frorm lack of at bats or lack of hard work. It just doesn't jive with his story for him to not work hard. He's always been an exceptionally hard worker and kind of a self-made player (12th round draft pick).

I think some in the organization plant this information with the press to light a fire under certain players. That seemed to be the case with Jayson Bartlett, who got hammered in the press while Castro was going to be a future gold glove winner. The message in this case is: If you work hard Kubel, there's a job for you next year. If not, we'll acquire someone.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 15, 2006 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't

I don't know how you would personally know if he worked hard or not, but some of your other guesses are worthwhile evidence.

Jim Rantz's comment below is more enlightening.

As far as Kubel being ahead of schedule in June, was that actually said by teh Twins or was that your response.

I don't trust Ruesse, amd I don't want to think Kubel is lazy, but it is aways a possibility.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 16, 2006 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Where I get my information

I wouldn't characterize it as a guess. I have read a half dozen reports about his work ethic over the years, from when he was first signed. Mauer played with him and complemented him on all the extra work in the cages and weight room. Last winter there were separate reports in the strib and pipress about the six to eight hours he spent in rehab everyday for a whole year, then more work in the cages. Given all these reports, it would be odd for him to just stop working hard.

The time frame for his full recovery was 18 months from November 2004. So he should have been fully healed by April of 2006. My bad. I believed the reports from the strib that said he was ahead of schedule.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 16, 2006 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

18

But he didn't face much live pitching in all that time. He came into spring training to work on his swing and timing and all and was pressed into pro service right away. He did go to AAA...but overall he was playing catchup throughout the season, couple with the actual "playing of the game" on the field. I can do all the crap in the workout room and by myself on the track and in the field, but doing the game day runs and swings is totally different. I do hope he can play some winter ball before spring training, just to work out those knees (after maybe only a month of rest ... not counting the end of the season benchwarmer stuff). Kubel has the potential to be a good baserunning threat if everything is working and would be a true triple threat (average, homers, stolen bases).

by twintown on Oct 16, 2006 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

BTW

What happened to your boy Bartlett in September and the post-season?

September .228 ba .259 obp .267 slg

In August he had 8 doubles, in September he had 1. Did anyone notice if teams were pitching him different?

And his defense went from what I would term "fantastic" to what I would term "jayvee." I was almost hoping that there would be news of a nagging injury. I do think that Gardy could have given him a day off here or there.

JB better not get off to a slow start next year or his days at SS will be numbered.

by wcooley on Oct 16, 2006 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not quite fair

Bartlett had never played in 75 consecutive games before. He got worn down. Everyone else on the team got at least one day off, he did not. Every year he gets less worn down in September, but it is hard for young players to stay on a high level for 162 games plus spring training. I wouldn't worry about a fast start or "his days at SS will be numbered.". That's the same attitude that got everyone down on him last offseason, despite a sarkling May-August last year. What do you want from the guy, blood? If he was in New York, he'd get Derek Jeter treatment.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 16, 2006 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bartlett in New York

"If he was in New York, he'd get Derek Jeter treatment."

Strongly advocating Bartlett over Castro was one thing, favorably comparing Bartlett to Jeter is a sign of lost perspective.

If Bartlett plays like he did in September and the post-season to start next year Casilla will replace him by June 1.

by wcooley on Oct 16, 2006 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry...

but that's ridiculous. He would be Jeter. Casilla is the longterm replacement at 2b, not SS. Bartlett will be just fine, and will be a Michael Young-lite for this team (worse hitting of course, but better fielding) for years. Captain Overrated isn't even a consideration.

by djskilbr on Oct 16, 2006 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm sorry

are we talking about the same Derek Jeter? The one who hit .343/.417/.483slg this year? The Jeter who averages 18 hr's and 83 rbi's a year?

Bartlett had a very good June/July/August. But the comparison to Jeter is ridiculous.

And the Twins cannot afford to be patient with him if he plays like he did in Sept./Oct.

by wcooley on Oct 16, 2006 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Jeter was a rookie

He was not all the much better than Bartlett now. Of course, he had more stamina (won a WS in his first year). But the fans have been calling him a future HOFer since he was 28. I'm not saying Bartlett is a future HOFer, he's just the best shortstop the team has had since Gagne, taking his WHOLE SEASON into account. He slumped late. It happens. Mauer hit like .220/.280/.330 in September last year. Did that make everyone clammor for Rob Bowen?

Please explain to me why the Twins can't afford to be patient with Bartlett. Patience has helped the team a little with Cuddyer and Morneau. Why wouldn't it help with Bartlett? I'm confused as to why you would prefer a AA second baseman to Bartlett. That's just a knee jerk reaction, if you ask me, emphasis on the jerk.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 16, 2006 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any

criticism of your boy Bartlett must make me a "jerk."

The Twins can't afford to be patient because they know that they have a very good shot to win the World Series next year. If their shortstop flounders like he did at the end of this year they will need to make a move.

How old was Jeter when he was a rookie? By the time he was Bartlett's age he had already put in several good years.

I hope Bartlett plays more like he did in June/July/August next year. I hope Gardy gives him some days off. I hope the Twins win the world series. I hope Scarlett Johannson calls me tonite. But I'm worried these things might not happen.

by wcooley on Oct 16, 2006 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, just look at priorities

The Twins have several places where they need to make moves to improve, to even be in a position to win a WS next year. Shortstop is not one of them right now. Starting pitching, left field, third base, second base, DH, ... Will Kubel recover? Will Lirano recover? lots of stuff to talk about without worrying if one of the best players on the team last year will extend his late-season slump into June next year. Worrying about that is jerky, not just because I'm a fan of Bartlett. If you said the same thing about any player, I would call you on it.

I agree, if he flounders like he did in September and October for the first three months next year, they'll have to do something. I would put the likelihood of that at around .5 %. He has had four consecutive excellent seasons. He has tended to wear down late in all of those years. He has never taken those struggles into spring training the following year. Projecting that he would, let alone that he would take them three months past spring training, is just bad forcasting. Feel free to make bad projections, but don't expect me to just leave them alone unquestioned.

Yeah I have affection for him. A big part of that is that no matter what he does on the field, he never seems to get any respect. I wonder why that is. The Twins have not exactly thrived at shortstop ever in their history. Zoillo was great for like three years. Since then, they've had one all-star shortstop in 40 years, and he blew out his shoulder at the all-star game and was never the same player afterwards. Bartlett has a chance to be better than anybody since Zoillo. He's a better hitter than Gagne and he's as good in the field, according to Gardy and TK. He's not yet had one full year in the majors, and already people are calling for the next guy, a guy who started last year in A ball (at the same age Bartlett was in A ball, BTW).

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 16, 2006 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jason

It is definitely true Bartlett struggled down the stretch. I didn't really notice teams pitching him any differently, i just noiced him getting jammed a lot, so maybe he was tired and his batspeed just wasn't there.

Let's say he wasn't tired though, and that is no excuse. Let's say he just played terribly for september without reason.

He still had a great overall season, hitting over .300, boosting our defensive range, getting on base at a nice clip and displaying gap power at times. Good players are entitled to bad months. Justin Morneau had a terrible start, Torri Hunter had a bad moth in there, Santana had a bad month, Cuddyer had a big slump, Radke was abysmal for two months and he's still everybody's hero. Why? Dspite some extended periods of struggle, they still had good overall years. Bartlett did too, and it is ridiculous to be talking about replacing him at this point. Have we learned nothing? Did your eyes see nothing? He played great on both sides of the ball this year!

As for the Jeter analogy, I understand the argument, but I think the euphimism is decieving. THe point is, in a market like NY, if a shortstop came in and improved the team like that, he'd have the media worshipping him, just like Jeter did after one good postseason. After 1996, Jeter was set in stone as a star forever.

So i don't know what's up, up why are we still wondering about Jason Bartlett. He's shown he's a good player over long periods of time twice now.

He's an ancor of the team beyond the stars for years to cme and I'm excited for the dynamic 2008 Bartlett-Casilla Dp combo.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 16, 2006 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Two months

Let's say he wasn't tired though, and that is no excuse. Let's say he just played terribly for september without reason.

He still had a great overall season

No, he had a great two months from mid-June to mid-August. After that he struggled.

He's shown he's a good player over long periods of time twice now.

Again, that really isn't true. He had the same thing happen last year when he came back from Rochester. He started out hot and then cooled off, a lot. He ended up hitting the second half the same way he did the first half.

If he hits .242 next year, like he did last year, I am willing to bet all the fans excited about his defense will start to notice some flaws.

I don't think Cassillas is going to take Bartlett's job next year. But I would not be surprised if some fans are screaming for that move some time around mid-year.

by TT on Oct 16, 2006 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One month

He struggled for one month out of seven. He hit over .500 in spring training. He hit over .300 in AAA and led the league in doubles and was second in runs when he was called up. The fact that he was in the minors was not his call. Don't penalize him for that. He was hitting .360 in Mid August. He hit .300 in late August and in the .200s in September. He had one mediocre month. Everyone on the team had a month like that last year, including Mauer.

But I would not be surprised if some fans are screaming for that move some time around mid-year.

I agree with that. I wouldn't be surprised if he's hitting .350 and some fans are screaming for the next guy. If they're screaming now after one of only three seasons in Twins history in which a shortstop hit over .300, they'll find some reason to scream about his deficiencies. It's a mystery to me as to why. It's not as though he's filling big shoes or anything.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 16, 2006 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto

Yes yes yes and yes. There are much worse things to worry about on this team that our fast, decent hitting, plus-glove shortstop.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 16, 2006 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reality check

He hit over .500 in spring training. He hit over .300 in AAA and led the league in doubles and was second in runs when he was called up.

So what? There are lots of players who hit just fine at AAA and struggle when major league scouts and pitchers work them over.

He hit .300 in late August

After going 4 for 4 against Cleveland on the 16th, he went 9 for 41 the rest of the month. He stopped hitting in mid-August.

And lets be clear, he didn't hit over .300 over a full season. He was called up in mid-June. He only played in 99 games and if the season had gone another week he probably wouldn't have been hitting over .300 any more.

He had one mediocre month.

He had a month and half to end the year that was worse than Castro's stint with the Twins to start the season and had everyone complaining.

Of course, its not at all impossible that Gardy wore him out. And we can hope that he comes back next spring and hits like he did when he was first called up. If he does, and can sustain it for a full season, you can start comparing him to Michael Young. But right now he still hasn't played a full season and his last six weeks, not even including the playoffs, were not reassuring.

by TT on Oct 16, 2006 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fluke

"his last six weeks, not even including the playoffs, were not reassuring."

If you include the playoffs, I would call his play "horrifying."

Personally I am worried about Bartlett next year. And Punto. It is not beyond the realm of possibility that those two guys had career years last year. I hope I am wrong.

by wcooley on Oct 16, 2006 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Career years

It is not beyond the realm of possibility that those two guys had career years last year.

I'll say Punto had a career year. Bartlett did not. You have to ignore minor league play to say Bartlett had a career year. Punto never has hit that well for a sustained period, in the majors or the minors. Bartlett has hit that well or better for three straight years. It's unlikely that it's a fluke. In fact, his slump is more of a fluke, given his career numbers.

And I know some people completely discount minor league numbers, claiming that some players have hit well in the minors and not in the majors. This is a falacy. Most players who hit well in the minors also hit well in the majors. A large majority of players who hit well in the minors and also hit well in the majors continue to do so. Of course, players have slumps. And some players, like Lew Ford, have flaws in their games that are not fully realized until their second or third years in the majors. Bartlett is not such a player. He uses the whole field and has a good eye at the plate. There's nothing in his game, save his lack of sustained power, that indicates that he will experience a sustained slump along the lines of Ford's 2006. Is it possible that Bartlett is like Ford? Yes. But it is highly unlikely.

Go ahead and worry about him. But, taking the same level of concern into account with similar odds, you would worry about everyone on the team except perhaps Mauer, Morneau, Santana, and Nathan. I choose to be more optimistic and focus on more glaring holes in the team, such as starting pitching, left field and DH.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 16, 2006 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think we

Should trade for a Vet a that is a Gold glove caliber fielder he doesn't have to be able to hit after all he'll probally hit in the nine hole and any from there is a bonus anyway maybe houston will trade Adam Everett for Crain and Barlett that will stablize the postion and be a great defesive upgrade.

In all seriousness bartlett had a 86% contact rate which should be able to sustain a near .300 batting average his 6% walk rate could improve but overall his raw batting numbers look alright.

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 16, 2006 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

well

Jim Rantz thought different
"You never know how a player is going to rebound mentally from injuries, but with Jason there's never been any doubt of where his desire is. It's to be back on the field."
--Twins farm director Jim Rantz

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 16, 2006 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Partially right

Cuddyer did have chances to earn his way on to the playing field two years he got a 100 at bat sample but in 2004 and 2005 I submit this for evidence Jacque Jones hit .254/.315/.427 and .249/.319/.438 respectively and Cuddyer hit .263/.330/.440 and .263/.330/.422 in those years

Here's what cuddyer did against lefties in 04 .293/.379/.472 in 128 at bats Jacque hit .245/.328/.329 in 155 at bats this is where cuddyer should have been given extra playing time in 2004 they completed each other perfectly and Gardy didn't realize this. It's just one point and probably is more related to gardy wanting the players called up to produce right away and in a win now environment that is not necessarily a bad thing.

It mainly comes down to the expectations you put on he and what kind of player you thought he was going to be and fact that he is a slow starter didn't help his case. From 2003 to 2005 he hit .227.287.377 in April During his whole career this is the only month that his OPS is below .750 and April and June are the Only ones that he was below .800 and that's not including this year which was the time he was "proving" himself in conclusion Cuddyer's performance was always masked by a poor start making his overall number go down. I'm not trying to say one month doesn't matter but the notion that he never showed his ability is exaggerated.

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 13, 2006 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gardy's whims

I think Gardy's Achilles heal is he thinks too much. He's always tinkering with the guys he's not sure about. Cuddyer moving all over the diamond and getting benched three times in one season because he failed to make an easy play at third is a good example of this. Sending Bartlett down this spring because he dropped one pop-up is another.

Then he'll give guys a chance in situations where they just aren't ready. The Glen Perkins thing in the playoffs is the best example of that I can think of. Putting Bartlettt in the number 2 hole to start the 2005 season is another one. He was ready to be a number 9 hitter, but not a run producer, after just 30 at bats in the majors.

He just needs to give guys a real chance before judging them. You can't tell a lot about a player until you see them play everyday for a couple of months. This is tough when you have expectations of making the playoffs. But in this market, it's necessary. For all the scouting and developing this organization does, it sure handles the guys it's trying to break into the majors strangely. They have to earn playing time under an intense microscope in which one mistake can send them to the bench for two weeks, or down to Rochester for two months. That's just not conducive to building confidence.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 13, 2006 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's a juggling act.....

Sould Bartlett be a #9 hitter. Maybe. I thinbk it has worked well. But what if he had stuck at the #2 slot. Is Punto a #2 hitter or a #8 or #9 hitter. Well, he certainly isn't a lead-off guy.

Should Cuddyer be #4. Not with the power of Morneau at #5. And Hunter actually had a near equal year and is making how many million...to bat 6th. Most expensive sixth place hitter outside of a Yankee line-up.

Maybe MINNESOTA should pull an Oakland and bat Mauer leadoff. Then we don't have to worry about double plays. He does look at pitches. Sure, not as sure-foot on the basepaths (how many bases did he steal...sic)...but I didn't see the lightning all-the-time from the fleet-of-foot Castillo or Punto.

by twintown on Oct 13, 2006 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

109 RBIs, 105 runs scored

We haven't had a clean-up hitter that had numbers like that since Paul Molitor. I don't see a pressing need for a clean-up hitter.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 13, 2006 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or

Kubel vs Mariano Riviera that was a disater he had no chance bit it's not like anyone else did.

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 13, 2006 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

THose teams

Those teams won because everyone else in the division was shcokingly bad. We only won all that many games because we got to play KC and Detroit all the time. We were like the Padres. Decent, and winning the worst division in baseball, but not really so hot. (Ok, maybe the Cards won the worst division in baseball... whatever)

We would have won more games and gne further in teh playoffs in Gardenhire weren't very often rather a dunce.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 12, 2006 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

75 million

Be nice if Carl would pony up to $75-80 million. Put the over $10 million guys in a different slot than the rest of the team -- public realtions dolalrs well spent, perhaps.

by twintown on Oct 11, 2006 5:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Get your votes in now!

This tally may decide the future of the franchise.

Actually I'm surprised more people haven't selected option #1. I thought Gardy's moves in game three, bringing in Perkins and walking Thomas, were just plain weird.

by wcooley on Oct 12, 2006 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Walking Thomas...

...when the count went to 3-0 made all kinds of sense. There were two outs, Reyes is better against LHB and Chavez is worse (pretty bad, really) against LHP. That Chavez walked was unfortunate, but when you're pulling the strings, you don't get to know whether or not something's going to happen--you have to go with your best shot.

And for good measure, take a gander at Frank Thomas' career and '06 splits after he is ahead 3-0 in the count:

.385/.795/1.000 -- after 3-0, 2006
.293/.754/0.579 -- after 3-0, career

You're looking a chance of at least about 7% that Thomas hits a home run in that situation if you pitch to him, and even if you do pitch to him, he's probably going to reach base anyway.

OTOH, Chavez only hits a HR against lefties about 3.5% of the time, and Thomas might not even score on a Chavez double. In that situation, I think it's justified to play a sort of all-or-nothing approach, and walking Thomas is the first step in that approach.

by ubelmann on Oct 12, 2006 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Intentional Walk

I thought that it was a straight intentional walk of Thomas, but that old recreational drug use might be biting me again.

by wcooley on Oct 12, 2006 10:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There were no...

...intentional balls until the fourth ball.

by ubelmann on Oct 13, 2006 1:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perkins

I thought Gardy's moves in game three, bringing in Perkins and walking Thomas, were just plain weird.

I agree on Perkins. The Twins had one of the best bullpens in baseball all year, and here is a young rookie with almost no major league experience the first guy off the bench in a must win game.

I am sure it was a left-handed matchup thing. But there was no way he was going to make it through the rest of the game without using a right-handed pitcher.

by TT on Oct 12, 2006 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Conversation

That were still having this Bartlett conversation is mind boggling to me. What does he have to do to prove himself to you people, hit 30 homers?

Over the last two years, including his poor hitting stretches last year, bartlett has played just over one full season in the majors. In that time he has a .278/.342/.364 line. His recent line, for the last four months was .309/.367/.393. Let's say that his overall line is his whole rookie year and his line from his four months this year is like his second half. Those a pretty good numbers from a rookie shortstop with a plus-glove.

Bartlett is a quality player who played an important role in turning the Twins around this year. He is better than any infielder the Twins have had, other than arguably castillo, since Guzman's 2001, which was the best since Knoblach. Why are you all over him? There are many otehr worse things than Jason Bartlett...

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 16, 2006 7:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs