The Stadium

by wcooley on Oct 23, 2006 9:20 AM EDT Comment 38 comments

This article in the NY Times on the amenities at Turner Field was an interesting inside look at the business of stadium revenue. It might be a good preview of what is to come at the Twins new venue (Best Buy Stadium?). Here's hoping that the Twins remember that baseball is still one of the last big-time sports events that a working-class family can afford. Even at a new stadium there still should be a good amount of seats that are around $10, especially since it is a taxpayer-financed public works project.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/22/business/yourmoney/22stadium.html?th=&emc=th&pagewanted=al l

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Stdaium Games

I like the idea of an eating area -- restaurant -- at a game. The Twins now have those expensive club boxes...where you basically watch the game closeup on TV screens, but can still view the field, or settle into more comfortable seating.

Seating is the name of the game. Give people a little -- yes, just a little please -- elbow room, and make it so my knees don't act as a headrest for the patron in front of me.

I liked the old Bill Veeck idea of a picnic area, too. I look at places like Kansas City that have the big open green area and think...why not.

Food, overall, should improve. Yet how much can you bring to your seat. Amazing how people balance so much that is worth so lttle in minute lap trays.

My still favorite is people walking with full beer cups and getting mad when it spills. Hey, take a few sips before you go on the move.

Price will always be a factor. Most of us will be priced out during the first few seasons at the new stadium in Minnesota, I'm sure, unless the team really sucks.

I looked into getting a small season ticket package this year, or even the flex plan...but I absically do better when I rotate where I wish to see games, utilize those twofers that happen so often during the week, not to mention other specials. And if I do wish expensive seats, I can usually purchase them on the grounds before a mid-week game for below cost.

But, yes, all good things will come to an end.

By the way, would a roof help? Does it save on maintenance cost (think of all that snow eating away at the unused stadium in the winter). Seems so fitting to have somesort of roof, just so you can use the facility year round. And look at the current playoffs and World Series. Hey, we had snow in Minnesota Sunday evening.

Call me weather spoiled, but....

And living around a stadium. I wonder. Currently residing in St. Paul, there was once talk about plopping the stadium into our artistic lowertown area...but I can only imagine the joy of parking and having 20,000-40,000 people walking by my condo x-amount of nights during the year. Whew!

And, yes -- $10 seats...but please, not third deck nosebleeds. Nice open bleachers (I'll accept benches).

by twintown on Oct 23, 2006 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Personally

I hope that the numbers of luxury boxes and "private" restaurants are severly limited. Word is that Chicago's Soldier Field renovations have gone further than any stadium so far to enforce class distinctions, with endless luxury boxes for the elite on one side and seats for the plebians on the other. Form what I've seen Staples Center in LA also appears to be a testement to the increasing gap between rich and everybody else.

by wcooley on Oct 23, 2006 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'd disagree with Staples...

to me that's a normal stadium. I've been there many times and really don't see a problem with it.

by djskilbr on Oct 23, 2006 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Expect the new park...

...to be a revenue-extracting machine. That's the whole point in having a new stadium in the first place. After all, we are talking about a team that has a giant milk jug in their current stadium playing in a league where another team has pushed its games back by six minutes for an extra few hundred thousand dollars.

Would we rather have a ballpark that's named after a dead guy and no Johan Santana or a ballpark that's named after a company where we can see Johan Santana pitch? I'd choose Santana, but that's just me, I guess.

by ubelmann on Oct 23, 2006 5:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Wholeheartedly agree Ubelmann

I could care less what they call the stadium if it means more money. Hell, take AZ's thunder and call it Pink Taco Stadium for all I care.

As long as it helps us win, that's the bottomline. I can live with a section of the Stadium being named for Kirby.

by djskilbr on Oct 23, 2006 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still

can't beleive they passed up pink taco as a name I would have jumped all over that.

by FrozenTed9 on Oct 23, 2006 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfiroms.....

I'm waiting for advertising on the uniforms.

And, hey, maybe the Twins could pulloff a return to WCCO radio someday and have all games start at 8:30.

by twintown on Oct 24, 2006 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Corporate Baseball

I'd imagine I will be terribly disappointed in the Twins when the name of the new stadium is released. The stadium is being payed for by the people of Minnesota, yet I'm sure it will have some lame-ass Corporate sponsor name. Personally, I'd like to see the Stadium name reflect either hte community or something baseball related. Have you seen Base-ketball? I believe its Tampax Field? Why not give the stadium a name that people will respect.... show a little dignity and respect for the game. If they don't wanna name it after a Twin (Puckett/Killebrew/Kelly)then thats fine, but don't sell it out to the highest bidder. Do something respectable with it... maybe honor the military or state of Minnesota. Anything but another example of America's greatest game selling out to the highest bidder. Remember the Spiderman Bases??? Pathetic... what do you think legends like Ty Cobb or Ted Williams would have said about that?

by SDTwinsFan on Oct 23, 2006 7:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I imagine...

...that Ty Cobb would have made sure he got his share of the profits and then he'd have gone on his merry way, senselessly beating the crap out of the nearest handicapped person who dared to say anything bad about him.

If enough people think it's important enough to name it after something respectable, maybe they should save their pennies and try to buy the naming rights themselves. (While this is a somewhat ludicrous suggestion, assuming he gets run out of town, could you imagine Alex Rodriguez winning the bidding war for naming rights to the new Yankee Stadium just to spite the Yankees? Now that would be high comedy.)

Baseball has a long and distinguished tradition of advertising and of owners trying to scratch and claw for every bit of revenue they can muster. It's not a case of the game getting worse over time--it's a case of the game continuing to be what it's always been.

by ubelmann on Oct 23, 2006 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correction

The good people off hennipen county are paying for the stadium. The rest of the state is contributing NOTHING.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 23, 2006 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honor the State

If it's that important to honor the state, what's wrong with Best Buy stadium, TCField, or some other big company from the state.

by GACTwinFan on Oct 24, 2006 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Naming from a local company

I agree - if it's a local company, and they are willing to pony up the bucks (which doesn't make me more likely to use their services - example: Target Center), why not.

by Chaddens on Oct 24, 2006 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Stadium Thoughts

-Most new stadiums have the bullpens behind the fences in right and left field. Personally I like going to the game and having the opportunity to get close to the pitchers down the first and third baselines. I think it creates a greater connection between the fan and the player. I hope the new pens don't go off into no mans land.
-Pitchers park. Yes I understand that the current stadium is a pretty neutral park, on the other hand I think it benefits right handed pull hitters a bit much. Why was the plexi-glass taken down in the first place? In my opinion that should go back up.
-Personally one of my favorite spots in the Metrodome is the upperdeck above the bleachers in right field. It's a good view for everything but the right fielder, I hope they can replicate this section in the new stadium.

break the 30 HR curse!

by caseintheface on Oct 23, 2006 9:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I hope

I just hope we build a nice, spacious, confortable, charming, pitcher's park.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 23, 2006 9:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Clarifications

One third of the cost of the staduim will be paid for by Carl Pohlad or his heirs. Part of the that investment gives the Pohlads the right to gather revenue however they see fit to get a return on thier investment. With the exception of Pac Bell Park, Pohlad will invest more money in his own stadium than any other owner in baseball. Why? So that his heirs can make more money from naming rights, signage, luxury boxes, concessions, and parking. Considering that he gets practically nothing in the line of those revenue streams in his current stadium, the investment will more than pay for itself within the life of the 30-year loan.

Two thirds of the cost of the stadium will be paid for by taxpayers in Hennepin County as an investment that the county hopes to use to increase tax revenues. Though it will be paid for by the people, it will pay the people of the county back about double what they invest. This is a conservative estimate: it could pay more, it will not likely pay less. How does this happen? Well, the county borrows the money and pays it back with sales taxes. The money it gathers through additional revenue generated through property and sales taxes levied in the stadium and surrounding development will likely be twice what it pays in interest and principal on the debt. This income will help the county offer its citizens better roads, schools, hospitals, fire departments and police than it could provide without the investment.

I am not a resident of Hennepin County, so I neither invest my taxes in the stadium nor do I reap the rewards of the development. As a resident of the state, I'm dumbfounded as to why the state didn't want a piece of the action. But whatever, the bigger the risk the bigger the rewards. And the state is risk averse under this governor. But I see no injustice for either the residents of Hennepin County nor the state for the deal that was struck. And given the way the Pohlads invest their meager revenues in the current product (they will turn a profit this year for the first time since 1992), I hope they make gobs of money in the new park so we can hang onto Santana, Mauer, and Morneau until they retire and are subsequently enshirined in the Hall of Fame.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 23, 2006 10:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I know what you mean

but hoping that Carl Pohlad, a guy who made his money preying on people during the Great Depression, makes "gobs" of money makes me sick to my stomache.

by wcooley on Oct 24, 2006 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Silly

I've always found this attitude silly and it held us back getting this stadium for years. just because a rich man gets richer doesn't mean the rest wont benefit too.

A main reason was to not get the stadium was always, "Carl Pohlad will make too much money." yeah, so? So what how much money he has if we improve ourselves as well.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 25, 2006 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

When Pohlad was getting rich during the Depression everybody else was feelign the benefits of his largesse too. When he tried to move the team to Mayberry we all took pleasure. When he tried to contract the team and put the money in his pocket it was a great day for all Twins fans.

Is it possible that Adamonfirst is actually Adam Smith?

by wcooley on Oct 25, 2006 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

why

are you pissed at Pohlad. he invested in a baseball team that you enjoy and follow with a passion. what kind of owner would you be if you had made the investment and taken on the responsiblility to make a sucess out of your investment. put your money where you mouth is and see how you do. we have a team. if Griffen had sold to someone from out of state the Twins would be gone. stop the negative attitude and be thankful you have a resident owner. look at Montreal. florida is next to go someplace else. or look at the Royals they have a non-resident owner. how would you like to be a KC fan.

"hi everybody" Herb Carneal Hall of fame baseball announcer.

by firstatbat61 on Oct 25, 2006 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So the answer was "contract the team"?

"Punish Pohlad" is a big part of the reason why it took so long to get this done.

"The" condition for the team remaining in Minnesota was building a stadium which improved the team's financial picture. There was no "keep the team but screw the owner" option on the table.

The idea that denying the team a new stadium would somehow hurt Pohlad was always laughable. If that happened, if the stadium had gone down to defeat again, then Pohlad would either move or sell the team or MLB would buy him out and contract the team.

No matter what, Pohlad would not be hurting - he'd get a stadium with a better revenue stream somewhere else, or he'd get bought out at a price significantly higher than what he paid (either by new ownership or by MLB to contract the team).

Meanwhile, Twins fans would most likely find themselves without a team to root on (buyers willing to step into a poor revenue stream being hard to find).

But we sure would've shown Pohlad .....

by BD57 on Oct 31, 2006 4:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ideas

I forget where it will be held, can someone fill me in?

Anyway, have stuff to do around the park. Make it a fun area to hang out after work. Have a lot of bars, restaurants, shopping etc. nearby like what the Cubs do. Having one bar and a big hospital just wasn't ideal.

Advertise towards college kids. This has been a problem with me for years going to the dome. It's so geared towards families with blonde kids. I love kids, but they don't pay attention to the game and they get annoying if they're not yours and their attention span has run out. There are a lot of colleges around the TC, I keep hearing the same thing out of them, they'd rather go to a Saints game. The Twins don't even bother to advertise to them at all. Continue to advertise to families, but get the 18-24 involved. They'll fill the cheap seats up.

I agree with Ubelmann. If Hormel, General Mills or 3M is going to keep Johan signed till he's 34, do it.

by TheMattWilke on Oct 23, 2006 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

There's one problem with college kids...

We're freakin' poor.

Families with middle-aged business-class parents --> $$$$$

College students --> $$

Or something like that.

In a new park, at least at first, they probably won't have trouble selling tickets, so I don't see them gearing anything more towards college kids. And getting kids to games when they're even younger helps ensure that they want to come when they get to college. (Sort of a farm system of fans.)

Of course, when they were getting 4-digit attendance figures, and they have empty seats in the dome, I think you have a point. Because $$ might be worse than $$$$$ but it's better than 0.

There are a lot of colleges around the TC, I keep hearing the same thing out of them, they'd rather go to a Saints game.

This actually makes it really easy to spot who likes baseball and who wants an outdoor venue to consume alcohol in public. Not the most important information in the world to have, but it can come in handy.

by ubelmann on Oct 23, 2006 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

YEah

They want families in there. Specifically, families who don't come very often. Families who's companies gave them free tickets. That way, tehy get the ticket price AND the family goes and spends equal to or more than the ticket price on crap for their kids. Food, parking, shirts, a hat, a foam finger, more food, a malt cup, a program and yearbook. hey, they didn't pay for the ticket, so they might as well buy crap with their money.

As a college kid, i understand why I'm not much of a target market. As a 17 year old, everyone wants a piece opf your action. You've got all kinds of disposable money lying around. you get to school and you've got none and nobody wants your bussiness specifically until you are 25 and maybe start making some cash.

Good thing we are sandwhiched in between to we still get good stuff...

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 24, 2006 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kids

"I love kids, but they don't pay attention to the game and they get annoying if they're not yours and their attention span has run out."

I don't like kids, and I was amazed when I went to a Iowa Cubs game this year that they had basically made the stadium into a day care center. All that was lacking was the shitty diapers and graham crackers.

by wcooley on Oct 24, 2006 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

$6

It's cheaper to see the Twins than it is to The Grudge 2. I realize college kids are poor, but they'll spend money on entertainment. Again, I'm saying don't stop advertising to families with kids, but reach out to 18-24. That in turn will also be advertising towards the groups of high school kids with the disposable income.

by TheMattWilke on Oct 24, 2006 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, market more.....

I still see alot of college age groups in the cheap seats or left-field. Most of them buy spur-of-the-moment.

And the fact is, baseball does cater to the occasional fan.

I look at season ticket packages and wonder...how can I...not afford...but attend those games, or split with someone else and still attend those games.

Also, you NEED to get kids there and involved, and keep it kid friendly AND family friendly. These are your customers of the future...be it in Minnesota or elsewhere. The college crowd is the good-time crowd and probably pay even less attention to a game that a group of 8-year-olds, at times. Plus, they go abck to wherever they originally came from, or move to New York or Los Angeles, and have no TWINS PRIDE!

by twintown on Oct 24, 2006 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

In a good spot

Within two years of the Target Center being built, the number of bars and restaurants in the Warehouse district more than doubled. THe Same thing happened in St. Paul with the XCel.

I think Best Buy Center will do the same for near north as Target did for the Warehouse district. And they will be connected by a walkway and parking ramps. So their will be bars and restaurants galore around that complex. Plus a mall and luxury townhomes all over the place. It's the last remaining slice of land on that side of town yet to be developed. It will be fun to go to the Loon or Old Chicago or Glueks or any number of new places nearby for a celebratory brewsky after a Santana victory in 2014.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 23, 2006 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't see it

The Rapid Park site where the stadium is slated to be built is, quite literally, three blocks from the Target Center.

I don't see the stadium contributing to any development that wasn't already there or in progress.

by dwintheiser on Oct 31, 2006 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Near north

Have you been down around Mary's place? Have you driven down Gleenwood? besides the five-block wasteland directly to the north of the stadium site, which is just a trench, there are blosk of near north past the garbage burner that will be developed once the trench is filled in. That's what we're talking about.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 31, 2006 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

More ideas

In today's StarTrib:
http://www.startribune.com/509/story/762116.html

by wcooley on Oct 24, 2006 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Unique.....

It seems people WANT something Minnesotan. Stuff on a stick. The stadium to look like a log cabin or a cow barn.

I doubt that the Pohlads will waste space like they do in Kansas City with waterfalls where they can put seats. And I picture that the surrounding area is so tight that an amusement park and other Twins-based activities may be few and far between.

Also, because it is a baseball-only stadium, what happens the other usable 80 nights a year (considering the Twins will play from snowfall to snowfall.)

I still marvel that anyone would like to invest x-amount of dollars into something that will be beat to hell by the weather half-the-year.

by twintown on Oct 24, 2006 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not to be mean...

But shouldn't we just give in to the fact that this is probably going to be Carl Pohlad Memorial Stadium...

break the 30 HR curse!

by caseintheface on Oct 24, 2006 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Silliness

I really hope we don't have a bunch of hokey silliness everywhere at this park. A polka dancing area? A canoeing river?

The best parks don't have gimmicky stuff. Houston is a tiny little box with a ridiculous train that runs around, and it is stupid. The tigers have all their silly concrete Tigers everywhere.

My entire family has lived in Minnesota their entire lives, and most of them have rarely, if ever polka danced. I've never done it. I don't want somethign in our stadium that's going to just end up becoming an annoying national joke.

Charm, simplicity, baseball. Maybe something simple and pretty like Kauffman's fountains. Nothing ridiculous or harboring of untrue Minnesota stereotypes.

And pitcher's park.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 24, 2006 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Addemdum

it should be modeled after wondcerful places for baseball like Safeco in Seattle, PNC (I think) in Pittsburg (perhaps the best), and whatever the Giants' stadium is called now. The onyl ridiculous kind of tribute thing should be something like they have in Cincinatti; a franchise museum inside.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Oct 24, 2006 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably a train

There has been talk of having the Northstar Rail line go over the bleachers down the third base line, similar to how Safeo has a train in left. But it more likely will end up in a tunnel below the stadium's 3rd-baseline seats.

The other strange item is using wastewater recovered from the garbage burner to heat the field and the floor in front of the seats. That isn't such a strange proposition, believe it or not. It's like a giant Wersbo system that circulates the water through all the floors fo the stadium instead of using cooling towers.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Oct 24, 2006 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

the double bang

on a corporate season ticket is the goal of each club and goes like this. the season ticket is paid for in Feburary so the club doesn't have to promote or bust there hump to sell that ticket again to an individual mom and pop and the kids. so like adamonfirst said the corporation gives $200.00 dollars of free tickets to 81 different employees who in turn spend there $200.00 bucks, cuz the tickets are FREE, on food, beer, minny bats, snow cones, pizza slices and Mauer t-shirts. hence the $200. 00 dollar ticket is now $400.00 doallars times 81 equals 32,400 not 16,200.00 hence the double bang on a season ticket sold in Feburary. the ulinmate goal of every club. the 3K or so tickets left over for each games goes to "The Molitor" family pack of 4 tickets, four dogs, four cokes is just fill. clubs gotta have some reason to keep the sales and marketing staff around all summer. i too hope that every square inch like the backs of seats the tops of seats the bases and uniforms arn't sold each night along with the shoot a t-shirt 100 feet in the air barnam and bailey show each night. have to entertain mon and pops and the two kids who get the corporate tickets once every three years and go nuts. in the mean time the regular going season ticket holders like myself has to put up with the three ring crap every night what a joke. turned a baseball game into a circus, it's a joke. we need a sliding roof like Milwaukee, wide isles and great food stations with space. now how a bout good site lines with a modest to steep slope, nobody talkes about viewing the game, just circus crap, wide seats with knee space. be able to view the game from the back if you go to the john or get some food. go to Milwaukee and see what i mean, it's great believe me. and go to Wriggleville and see what it's like around a real ball park that hasn't sold out to selling out every square inch to advertising and flying t-shirts. the people in the newspaper are the same ones that sleep in there sleeping bags to get a free tony O bobble head so they can run home and sell it on ebay for 20 bucks. those are not baseball fans. so forget a lake for canoe racing and loon calling contests to the people in the rest of the state who didn't want to spend one penny on a ball park, stay home and call loons . that tells you what the newspaper knows they wouldn't know a baseball fan if they tripped over one. remember they think Sid and Pat are real smart baseball guys. the press goes beacuse the press gets FREE food in the press room each night not to mention a FREE ticket while the rest of us will be paying at least 50-60 bucks for a decent seat. as a matter of fact that tells you just how bad the star beat baseball writers are. if you ask the fan in a sleeping bag he will want better sleeping accomodations not good site lines. screw the MPLS Star and the crap they put out. let's get a real ball park. the end

"hi everybody" Herb Carneal Hall of fame baseball announcer.

by firstatbat61 on Oct 24, 2006 11:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ikea Park!

I really hope they extend the train lines northward since that's the direction I usually come. Even from Des Moines I drive up to Buffalo to spend the night when going to games.

by MNPundit on Oct 26, 2006 6:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs