Okay, I've Calmed Down...
...but only just a little...
Whew. Take a breath, everybody. We're leaving Detroit, and we don't have to see them for FOUR WHOLE DAYS. Good thing, I don't think anyone could have taken much more of this. Three consecutive days of ass-wuppin' put on by an explosive Tiger offense and a pitching staff that stymied our hitters to the tune of one run.
Series Review By the Numbers
Team AB H AVG HR R XBH K BB PS
Minnesota 94 15 .160 0 1 3 12 6 368
Detroit 120 47 .392 7 33 17 19 11 483
There are some pretty disparaging differentials here. In a three-game series, Detroit hitters saw 115 more pitches than Minnesota hitters. That run differential pretty much explains itself. Extra-base hits are pretty killer as well, especially considering the difference between the Tigers and the Twins is double the home runs the Tigers launched. Detroit racked up the extra base hits.
Yesterday, or rather last night around midnight, I said some pretty awful things about our club. It's the dark side of caring--you can get upset. But it's better than being nonchalant, and from looking at some of the similar posts on the right, I'm not alone in my want of change. Look here as well. I'm not taking back any of those things today, but I won't be quite as harsh and I'll keep any personal insults to myself. I know, I'm no fun.
Dennys Reyes
Welcome to the majors, Mr. Reyes. Dennys had been eating up AAA hitters without breaking a sweat. In 4 appearances (3 starts) and 18 innings of work, Reyes logged a 0.50 ERA, striking out 13, allowing 11 hits and posting a 0.78 WHIP.
While I was at work this afternoon I had passing glimpses of Reyes at work, and in what could possibly be nothing more than my search for something positive in the series, I mentally noted that Reyes appeared to go after the Tiger hitters. He wasn't afraid to go inside. He looked like he was trying to make his pitches work for him, instead of not against him. There's a huge difference. Keep in mind--this is all a judgement made in view of no more than 5 or 6 pitches.
Trade Thoughts, Continuing Yesterday's Rant

Miguel Cabrera, 3B, $472,000
There was a time when I thought a trade of this magnitude was entirely a pipe dream of the most unrealistic kind. Now, I'm not so sure, in spite of what Florida owner Jeffrey Loria has to say.
Cabrera, like Mauer, is one of the league's talented youth. Along with Dontrell Willis, Cabrera is the only recognizeable name left on the Marlin roster (Joe Borowski doesn't count), following nothing short of what could be dubbed top-to-bottom organizational abandonment. With a payroll hovering under $15,000,000, the Marlins are in a clear state of not Rebuilding Mode, but of Sell Mode.
You could argue that even if you're selling a team, you want marketable players that will make even the cheapest team draw some fans. A good package in trade in still a good package, however, and the Twins do have names to put on the block.
Cabrera's MLB Numbers
Year Age AB HR AVG OBP SLG OPS
2003 20 314 12 .268 .325 .468 .793
2004 21 603 33 .294 .366 .512 .878
2005 22 613 33 .323 .385 .561 .946
2006 23 78 4 .321 .448 .590 1.038
There are a number of things to go over if legitimately considering a move for Cabrera. Number one are the financial considerations. Minnesota has no marketable player of a comparable salary they're willing to part with in order to swing the deal. They won't part with Joe Mauer, and in spite of how tempting it might be they won't part with Justin Morneau, either. Nor will they part with Francisco Liriano.
Next season Cabrera is estimated to earn more than $7,000,000 through arbitration. Trading a marquee player like Torii Hunter is a thought, as Hunter will earn $12,000,000 in 2007. Minnesota would get more for Cabrera's high salary next season than Hunter's, there isn't much of an argument here. 2007 isn't the problem though, the problem is the salary in 2006. If Florida is looking to dump salary, they won't pick up Torii's massive contract. So we're back to square one.
Even if the Marlins were open to trading their phenom third baseman, they're still going to want an ample return. For a player of Cabrera's calibre, they could rake their trade partner over the coals and not have their trade partner bat an eye at the searing heat. If the door is open for Cabrera, the Marlins will have their choice of the highest bidders. So if we're not trading our young stars, and we're not going to be able to rid ourselves of Hunter's 2007 contract, who DO we offer?
Kyle Lohse is going to be the first name out of many mouths, but I'm not going to (and probably couldn't) use him as the central piece to a trade. The name I'm going to offer as a centerpiece is Carlos Silva.
Carlos Silva would be tempting for a few reasons. One is his infallible control. Another is ability to keep the game moving. Yet another is the reputation he's built between 2004 and 2005 as a winning pitcher. In spite of the crap April he's had, Carlos Silva has trade value. One of the biggest draws he'd have as a Marlin is that he'd be a pitcher to compliment Dontrell Willis; he's young enough to hold down a rotation for a few years.
I'm willing to part with Silva because I believe his value is as high as it will ever be. Amazing control aside, he gets hit hard, and this is a major issue when the 1.20 groundball to flyball ratio he's posted in 2006 is a career high and yet he can't get through five innings to save his life.
If the Marlins would buy Silva for an opening volley in trade talks, there still needs to be discussion over which prospects the Marlins desire and which prospects the Twins can get away with trading. This is the short list.
Matt Moses, 21, 3B, AA: Moses has been deemed the heir apparent to the third base crown for a few seasons. With the addition of Cabrera, who is only two years Moses' senior and has a higher ceiling, Moses becomes expendable. He also has enough promise to intrigue any team looking for a future man at third.
Garrett Jones, 25, 1B, AAA: Another prospect close to ready, if not ready for a team like Florida, is the power-hitting Jones. He's had a sub-par time at Rochester this spring, but his ability to go long has brought him this far. 55 home runs between AA and AAA since the start of the 2004 season; those are tempting numbers. Jones isn't a deal breaker, but he makes the pot sweeter.
Boof Bonser, 24, RHP, AAA: Bonser throws hard, for the old boys out there, and he's been owning AAA hitters this spring. In 30 innings he's fanned 26, posted a 1.52 ERA and a 1.08 WHIP. With only 12 walks, and getting more mature with time, Bonser's control issues can be overlooked if not downplayed. Bonser has the potential to be a solid #3 pitcher, if not a passable #2, at some point in his career. Pitchers also get additional consideration simply because they've been in the Minnesota system, as strange and foolish as that seems.
J.D. Durbin, 24, RHP, AAA: Durbin isn't too far removed from having been a top prospect not just in the Twins farm system, but in all of baseball. His early promise has faded, but a change of scenery may be a tempting thought for a team looking to overhaul their roster. Durbin is turning into somebody's reclaimation project, and it isn't Minnesota's.
Dave Gassner, 27, LHP, AAA: Gassner hasn't thrown at all this spring, which makes him less attractive, but at 27 he's what you could call a AAAA player. He's had a few cups of coffee with the Twins, and while he's good he's never been quite good enough to earn a permanent space on the roster. With the right team he can round out a rotation.
Danny Matienzo, 26, 1B, AA: Matienzo has been blocked from advancing to Rochester this season, but looking at the quote I saw in Roger's minor league update this week, it seems he intends to make the best of it. This says a lot for a guy who, at 26, is no doubt eager to make a move on the major leagues. He's earned a spot at a AAA affiliate, to be sure. Good character, good future as a role player if not a decent-hitting corner infielder, and a nice statistical past could make him attractive.
Aside from these players there are any number of players in the lower affiliates who could seal a deal: Justin Jones, Anthony Swarzak, Glen Perkins, Nick Blackburn, Kevin Slowey and Matt Garza to name a few. With all these in mind, this is the package I would present to Florida.
Minnesota Receives:
3B, Miguel Cabrera, 23
Florida Receives:
SP, Carlos Silva, 27
3B, Matt Moses, 21
SP, Matt Garza, 22
SP, J.D. Durbin, 24
1B, Garrett Jones, 25
C, Allan de San Miguel, 18
This is an expensive trade for the Twins, although Florida could arguably ask for worse. Hell, I'd pay Silva's salary for 2006 on this deal to get it done. Carlos Silva makes an immediate impact for any team, not just the Marlins. Players like Moses, Garza, and perhaps even Durbin and Jones, could see time in the imminent future in this scenario. Miguel is a young catcher who, while he has a solid defensive presence, has plenty of time to improve himself at the plate.
Losing a prospect like Matt Garza, and losing Carlos Silva immediately with Liriano not ready to go five innings, are the two biggest blows to the Twins in what I've presented. These moves also present a lineup that could look like this, if we keep in line with the moves I made yesterday (in my mind).
POS PLAYER
2B Luis Castillo
C Joe Mauer
DH Shannon Stewart
3B Miguel Cabrera
CF Torii Hunter
RF Jason Kubel
1B Justin Morneau
LF Lew Ford
SS Jason Bartlett
Conclusions
You know, I started out prepared to look at more than one person in a trade scenario, but that's going to have to wait. This post is really quite long already.
There are a number of questions here for everyone to go over. Is Cabrera available for the Twins? If he is, are the issues concerning his acquisition negotiable for our organization? Is the trade scenario I set forth realistic, or is there more to the puzzle?
Speculation is what keeps fans of teams like ours alive; it gives us hope, and somewhere to go, if only to make us feel better. Aahhhh...Miguel Cabrera in a Twins uniform...
...I feel better.
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No way that gets it done
But that conversation STARTS with Francisco Liriano. I would consider a deal that involved Liriano if I felt my budget would absorb the next 3 seasons of Cabrera's salary.
by Eric in Madison on Apr 30, 2006 10:17 PM EDT reply actions
Liriano/Cabrera
Here I am commenting on semantics of a trade based in reality for Liriano when I just proposed we trade for Cabrera. Hmm.
Anyway, Terry Ryan has stated Pohlad will open up the books on the right player, and a player of Cabrera's talent is the type we'd like to ideally acquire. His situation in Florida is unique in that the franchise itself is obviously on the block, and this is the only reason I lend any legitimacy to talk of a trade for Cabrera. Any other team it's a big fat "no".
If the trade began with Liriano, I'm with you, I'd do it. Since the Twins won't do that, I included Matt Garza, the new top pitching prospect, into the swap.
As for the Marlins considering it, the Mets claim a conversation took place between themselves and Florida--Dontrell Willis and David Wright. Florida denies it, but if they're talking about Willis, they'll talk about Cabrera. You just need to pay the price.
Yeah, maybe
I mean, it HAS to. There is no way the Marlins trade Cabrera to an organization that has Liriano, and they don't get him.
It would almost be beyond negligence.
Some of the guys you propose have value, but you can't make up in quantity what you aren't giving in quality.
And when I say Liriano, I mean Liriano+ probably.
by Eric in Madison on Apr 30, 2006 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Hunter Too
Cabrera is the kind of player the Twins have been coveting for a decade--a legitimate middle of the order hitter who is young. There just aren't going to be many (or any) other opportunities to acquire a player of his caliber in a long time. Also, if the Twins do actually get a new stadium and can increase the payroll in the near future, I can't think of a better way to show the fans that the team is actually committed to winning.
With that said, I'm not sure Silva has enough value to serve as the centerpiece of such a trade. However, I think the Twins have to do whatever it takes to get a player of this caliber, and they certainly have the minor league arms to do it. Aside from Santana, Mauer, Liriano, Baker, Kubel, and maybe Morneau nobody should be untouchable. Like others, I'm just not sure if we could finalize a trade without including Liriano.
by MauerPower @ Twinkie Town on Apr 30, 2006 10:42 PM EDT reply actions
Cabrera
No way a trade even gets talked about without Liriano involved.
Cabrera Trade Revision 1.0
Trade Revision 1.0
Minnesota Receives: Miguel Cabrera, 3B
Florida Receives: Francisco Liriano, SP, 22
Matt Moses, 3B, 21
Matt Garza, SP, 22
Danny Matienzo, 1B, 26
Allan de San Miguel, C, 18
Does this make more sense? I removed Garrett Jones from the equation in return for what they'll be gaining from Liriano, and replaced him with Matienzo. I removed Durbin because two of your most talented prospects from the rubber is more than sufficient.
Don;t get me wrong,
I don't think that there are many players in baseball today that would be worth that kind of a pot, but Cabrera is certainly one of them IMO.
Fun to think about, although not every likely.
Reply
by MauerPower @ Twinkie Town on Apr 30, 2006 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Aha...
If the Twins are in contention, however, they could still take on salary. Cabrera is making peanuts this season, and even if he makes $7,000,000+ in 2007, the Twins will pay that over Hunter's $12,000,000. IF Cabrera could be had, Minnesota could absorb the financial blow for two or three seasons, until the time Mauer (and possibly Morneau) were ready to earn real money through arbitration.
Sorry for the Confusion
Additionally, if we were to make the Cabrera trade by some miracle, I would sure like to have Hunter's salary off the books to shore up some other weaknesses, particularly bullpen depth and another competent hitter. That way, we can actually contend for a World Series--just adding Cabrera without addressing some other obvious needs won't automatically put us over the hump.
Finally, I really would hate to give up Liriano in any trade. Just because the Marlins will ask for him doesn't mean we have to give in. If they really are going to trade Cabrera (and it seems they will have to for financial reasons), they are going to take the best deal they can get. I'm not sure any other team would/could match an offer like Garza, Perkins, Bonser, Moses, Harben, etc. for Cabrera. I'd rather give up all of them than Liriano.
by MauerPower @ Twinkie Town on Apr 30, 2006 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions
What?
What financial reasons? Is there going to be a new law in Florida making attending baseball games illegal?
First, you can check out this year's Forbes' team valuations. There, you'll see that the Marlins had a revenue stream similar to the Twins' last year, around $115M. Then, you can head over to Cot's Baseball Contract's, where you'll see that the Marlins' opening day payroll this year was about $15M dollars. To put that in perspective, the Twins' opening day payroll this year was $63M.
Let's recap here--similar revenues, but $48M less in payroll. Who is it exactly that needs to cut payroll? Even if Cabrera matches Soriano's record $10M arbitration win from this year, he's worth every...single...penny.
Marlins' Owner
by MauerPower @ Twinkie Town on Apr 30, 2006 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Read his comments...
Getting Cabrera really, really is out of the question.
Probably Dreaming
by MauerPower @ Twinkie Town on May 1, 2006 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Go right ahead...
Cynicism
"You may say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one. I hope some day you'll join us, and the world will be one."
There is a reason that song id name "Imagine"
Eh tu, Jesse?
I've fought this time and time again, but I guess my work is not yet done. Check out this list of baseball's 50 most valuable commodities. If you scroll down, you'll see Cabrera tucked in between Santana and Alex Rodriguez at #4.
The conversation doesn't start with Liriano--it starts with Santana or Mauer. There's just no reason in the world that any team would want to trade someone that good while he's that young and inexpensive.
Another way to think about it is this--Cabrera is an MVP candidate right now, this very moment. Liriano may never be an MVP candidate. Why should the Marlins take the chance? What sort of Krazy Kool-Aid do you think they are drinking?
The Marlins already have a great farm system, definitely ranked ahead of the Twins by Baseball America. They don't need prospects--they need major league baseball players, and they need them cheap. Dreaming about Cabrera is just that--dreaming.
Re: Dreaming
Did I make my point? I didn't, but I made a go of it anyway. It's done enough to get people to post comments, which is good enough for me. Debate is good. As long as it's more than "Dude, it's not just gonna happen. It's just not", I'm happy.
For all the work...
On one side, we've got Mauer, who everyone thinks is a stud and we all agree that there's no way the Twins would trade him. Mauer's been worth about 13 wins above replacement level so far in his career.
Miguel Cabrera is one day older than Joe Mauer, and he's been worth 25 wins about replacement level so far in his career, logging a lot of time in the outfield. His bat is even more valuable than that at 3B, and he doesn't seem to be hurting anyone on defense there, either. And looking at his PECOTA comparables list is a breathtaking sight. Frank Robinson? Albert Pujols? Vlad Guerrero? Eddie Murray? Hank Aaron? Johnny Bench? Griffey Junior? Juan Gonzalez? (The 1993 version that hit .310/.368/.632 in 140 games.) Cabrera's 10th percentile PECOTA projection is .276/.339/.498. That means we should expect him to do better than that 90 percent of the time.
Your scenarios for getting this player involve offering a pitcher with 38 career major league innings pitched or a guy who relied on a historically unique walk rate in order to be the effective pitcher he was last year. Maybe offering Liriano and Kubel would get the talks started, but I'm guessing it'd take Mauer or Santana to get serious discussions going. At which point, there's not much use in bothering to trade, because your just swapping a franchise player for a different kind of franchise player.
I guess I would ask you this question--would you trade Joe Mauer for Francisco Liriano and a bunch of prospects? I sure as heck wouldn't. Now, would the thought even cross your mind if Mauer had never lost a season to injury and seemed to be perfectly healthy?
Hmm
While I won't say that a trade for Cabrera is completely out of the question, if only because there's a price on pretty much everything, the problem is that I wouldn't pay the price you're tagging Cabrera with (I'm not saying it's a bad price, either). My basic thought pattern was finding a way of attaining Cabrera without losing the three names I mentioned earlier in the post: Mauer, Morneau and Liriano. Unfortunately, the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. It's what happens when you write in the heat of the moment and get carried away in random points you try to make just to see if you can make them.
Back to the drawing board...
Ok
Whatever makes you sleep better. There are a number of reasons why this trade won't happen, the first being Silva' being completely unviable as a centerpiece for a number of reasons. One, doing this would actually increas the Marlin's payroll, something they won't do. Two, Silva blows right now.
The prospects would be able to swign it though, and despite the cost, I'd go for it if it could happen. That being said, I'd give a less than 1% chance that this happens in any form.
Cabrera at 16
by MauerPower @ Twinkie Town on May 1, 2006 8:15 AM EDT reply actions
Eh
after this weekend in Detroit
I guess nothing good came out of this weekend.
I just can't believe the team is that bad. I think May will be different for our team.
GO Twins
I think that's the main thing...
replying to your previous comment
by cortalekanak on Dec 26, 2006 7:16 PM EST reply actions
replying to previous comment
by Pilargarza on Jan 16, 2007 11:17 PM EST reply actions

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