Batista and White are off the hook

by beach64 on Jun 18, 2006 9:42 AM EDT Comment 18 comments

I have read numerous times how Tony Batista and Rondell White are the reason the Twins are where they are this year. Below are the standings and the major differences between last year and this year.

2006 Stats
Team    Win    Loss GB    vs Central    RS    RA
Detroit    45    24    -    23-10    345    263
Chicago    43    25    1.5    21-13    374    310
Minnesota 33    34    11    8-18    313    331

2005 stats
Team    Win Loss GB    vs Central    RS    RA
Chicago    46    22    -    20-5    323    261
Minnesota 38    29    7.5    16-12    311    272
Detroit    33    33    12    10-11    299    291

I would say this points to other areas for the Twins problems such as pitching and not being able to defeat teams in your own division. It is interesting how last year the Twins were on a 9 game winning streak and this year a 6 game streak at the same point.

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Not totally...

White has been totally dismal in the designated hitter role. Totally.

Would someone hitting 5-10 homers, and having 25-35 rbs have made any difference?

Sure the pitching was a MAJOR contributing factor, but happily the Twins bullpen kept the team largely in the game after a starter gave up 3-5 runs in their five innings or less of work in the earlier parts of the season.

by twintown on Jun 18, 2006 11:29 AM EDT reply actions

When you're...

...under .500, there are lots of reasons you lose games. Just because there were other problems doesn't make Batista and White any less terrible.

by ubelmann on Jun 18, 2006 12:54 PM EDT reply actions

Not there yet.

Just because there were other problems doesn't make Batista and White any less terrible.

To that I would add Juan Castro and "Amen."

The Twins have had one of the three or four worst offenses in the AL this year, and even with their recent run they still trail division offensive leader Chicago by about SIXTY runs.

Yes, the Twins' unhealthy fascination with low walk/low K pitchers finally bit them in the butt this year. But the Twins have also hosed themselves by constantly fielding a lineup filled with 2 or 3 or even 4 offensive sinkholes this year and last.

Replacing Castro with Bartlett and White with practically anyone except Ruben Sierra will almost certainly help correct the problem. But third base remains a pretty big hole in the lineup, and Stewart at DH or LF looks like a second soft spot on a team that can't afford to have any.

With Ryan re-affirming his pathological hatred of free agency again just the other day in Souhan's column, it could be a while until those holes get filled.

by LaBombo on Jun 19, 2006 1:08 PM EDT reply actions

Trades

I agree with most of this. But just to clarify: Ryan said he prefers to use internal candidates, which includes trades in his mind. And this fits with recent history. He has never signed a player that helped him win anything, unless you count all the guys he signs and later trades for players that help him win stuff. In that, he is one of the most active traders on the market.

I expect him to get a third baseman by trade at the latest before 2007, but probably earlier. And the Twins are in a good position for a trade with all the young arms lined up.

I think LF is covered with Kubel. DH is the sticking point, but I would favor keeping three catchers and using Redmond as the pimary DH.

So you see, the only move Ryan really needs to make that requires a trade is for a third baseman. And, as I've written elsewhere on this blog there are options out there. My preference right now is Edwin Encarnacion. And I wouldn't be surprised if such a deal is made before the trading deadline.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jun 19, 2006 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions

Redmond as DH...

It's a nice position for Redmond, yes...but would like a bit mroe power. If it means we see Joe Mauer every game, be it catcher or DH, I'm all for the third catcher.

Still wonder if Shawn Wooten could be that man, today, as he could also back up at first and third.

I'm curious to see how long the Twins stay with Sierra as a bench guy.

by twintown on Jun 19, 2006 3:12 PM EDT reply actions

Power at DH?

Do you mean the one home run hit by the Twins' DH's does not satisfy? Bronson Arroyo has more homers than Twins' DH's.

by wcooley on Jun 19, 2006 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Power

If the Twins have average to better than average power at four positions (first, left, center, right), they can probably get away with a guy who's hiting .380 at DH. Here's the line-up I have in mind:

Castillo 2b
Punto 3b
Mauer C/dh
Cuddyer rf
Morneau 1b
Hunter cf
Kubel lf
Redmond DH/c
Bartlett ss

You bunch the OBP guys at the top and bottom and the power guys in the middle. If you acquired a bona fide 3b, you move Bartlett to the 2nd spot and put the third baseman where he fits best. If he's a power guy (e.g. Encarnacion), you put him before Redmond. If he's more of an OBP guy (e.g. Aybar), you put him after Redmond.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jun 19, 2006 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions

Trade

I am less confident that a trade will be made for a third baseman anytime soon. I have a hard time believing that Ryan will trade any of his young pitching, and Lohse will not fetch a major-league ready third baseman. I guess we will see, but I think we are looking at a year of Nick Punto at third.

by wcooley on Jun 19, 2006 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Ack

I think we are looking at a year of Nick Punto at third.

I think Punto's a nice utility player, but he's no Chone Figgins, which is what it would take to be a league average third baseman without any power. And I don't hold out much hope for Tiffee, Williams, or Rodriguez either. If Ryan doesn't make a move around the trade deadline this year, he'll have to do something in the offseason. Either way, he'll need to deal some pitching, similar to what he did when he acquired Castillo.

I don't think Lohse would garner a bona fide third baseman either. But Ryan could package him with a couple of other arms to get an Aybar or Encarnaion, if the Reds or Dodgers get desperate enough for arms. How about Lohse, Crain and a good prospect (Harben?) for either guy?

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jun 19, 2006 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions

I don't like it either

Punto is obviously not a good answer.

Problem with the Reds: If Krivsky gives up Encarnacion and he blossoms the media will have a field day because of his Twins association. I'm not sure he is confident and secure enough to take that risk. He needs groundball pitchers though.

Problem with the Dodgers: They are loaded with arms. Danny Darwin, one of their minor league coaches, says he has never seen so much talent. I doubt they will trade for young pitching. They might want Hunter or Stewart though. Or maybe Crain and other bullpen help.

by wcooley on Jun 19, 2006 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions

Crain

Let's say Crain turns into the closer the Reds need and Lohse thrives in the NL like Bronson Arroyo. Not too many fans of the Reds are all that bumbed that Willy Mo is hitting well for the Sox. I don't see how the risk is that much more with the Twins as it was with Boston.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jun 19, 2006 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions

Extra risk...

I don't see how the risk is that much more with the Twins as it was with Boston.

If a trade with the Twins fails, it can be spun as "a favor" to his old boss, whereas if a trade with Boston fails, it's just a plain old bad decision. At the end of the day, it probably doesn't make a huge difference, but I'm sure it goes into Kryzvicky's decision-making process on some level.

Right now, Hunter is the most likely to bring something more in return than we're giving up in a trade. Young arms are valuable and all, but the Twins might just have young arms that are all good enough that it's possible they can't get equal value in return.

Actually, if I was looking to trade any of our young pitchers, I'd look to trade Bonser. I don't think his one positive (minor league strikeout rate) is enough to outweigh his negatives (flyball pitcher, poor walk rate, lots of home runs), but he throws hard and strikes guys out, and a lot of teams will overvalue those abilities. Hunter+Bonser could get you a lot more in return than what those guys are giving the team.

by ubelmann on Jun 19, 2006 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions

Wooten vs. Heintz

I don't think versatility is all that important. And Heintz has played like 50 games at third in the last two years. So he's somewhat veratile. He also hits better than Wooten. He hit over 300 last year both in AAA and in his September call up. And after an injury sidelined him for a while, he's back hittin gover 300 again at Rochester.

Joe Mauer for MVP.

by cmathewson on Jun 19, 2006 3:19 PM EDT reply actions

White

White's Vorp singlehandedly negates the positive influence of Mauer offensivly and then some.

Batista is a big reason why the pitchers have struggled this year.

Just becaus ewe have several problems doesn't mean they are off the hook. Batista was terrible on all sides of the ball and White s the worst DH ever.

Literally, if you havn't seen why yet, check it out.

by AdamOnFirst on Jun 19, 2006 5:28 PM EDT reply actions