A comparison

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 12:46 AM EST

I submit for your consideration two guys who were at some point 22-year old outfielders in their first full year at AA. Both are speedy guys slotted as center fielders who don't strike out much, don't walk much, don't hit for any power, and hit for better than normal average.

Dude AVG/ OBP/ SLG
Player A .313/.387/.369
Player B .285/.340/.349

Both Player A and Player B are also former late 1st round draft picks. The Baseball Cube lists both players at 6'1", 170-180 pounds.

Guesses?

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Comments

I've got a guess

Willie Mays and Duke Snider?

by wcooley on Jan 22, 2007 9:01 AM EST reply actions

Guesses

Player A: Kenny Lofton
Player B: Denard Span

Joe Mauer for MVP (for real).

by cmathewson on Jan 22, 2007 9:11 AM EST reply actions

Half right...

You've got Player B correct, but not Player A.

Remember, Player A is currently in the Minnesota Twins organization.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 12:38 PM EST up reply actions

Aha...

...I guess I meant to mention that but didn't initially. So, yeah, both players are currently in the organization.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 12:39 PM EST up reply actions

player A

T.Hunter?

by JS22 on Jan 22, 2007 1:18 PM EST reply actions

now I see

that I'm wrong on torii

by JS22 on Jan 22, 2007 1:20 PM EST reply actions

Well...

...at least you're dreaming big. Another similarity between the two players: both are lefty batters and lefty throwers.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 1:35 PM EST up reply actions

Don't have my stuff with me...

on vacation, but guessing that Player A must be Jason Tyner...no one else seems to fit.

by roger @ Twinkie Town on Jan 22, 2007 1:53 PM EST reply actions

We have a winner!

Player A is Jason Tyner's 1999 season at AA Binghampton.

Tyner was the 21st overall pick in '98 and Span was the 20th overall pick in '02. At this point, the similarity between the two players is uncanny. Denard Span won't necessarily turn out to be Jason Tyner, but it looks like the most likely possibility to me.

Without something unforeseen happening to Span, he's going to be a 4th OF who can fill in defensively at any position in the OF. That's a role that teams need to fill, but it's not particularly valuable, and if he's the long-term plan at CF, the Twins are going to be pretty weak in CF.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions

Filling out

I've never seen Denard Span in person. Is there any chance he could fill out and get stronger? Tyner is unnaturally small for a big-league player, he still looks like a boy rather than a man.

by wcooley on Jan 22, 2007 2:50 PM EST up reply actions

I haven't seen him either...

...but right now he's listed as essentially the same height/weight as Tyner. And even if he adds some weight, his approach isn't very conducive to hitting for power.

I think it's also telling that Span's dropped off Baseball America's Twins Top 10 prospects list and John Sickels' Top 30 prospects list. Even the scouts don't seem to think there's much (if any) projection left on Span.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 2:56 PM EST up reply actions

Also...

...I think that Tyner's face makes him look a little younger/smaller than he actually is. I'm roughly Tyner's height, about five years younger and about 30-40 pounds smaller than Tyner, but I'd bet if we walked into 100 bars, he'd get carded more often than me.

Which is to say that he's still a pretty skinny dude, but I think it's slightly deceiving.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 3:02 PM EST up reply actions

True

but you don't see many baby faces like that on well-built men. And he might have the smallest wrists in the big leagues, which is part of the reason he can't generate much power.

The lack of emphasis on power in the Twins organization makes me believe that they would not try to tinker with Span to make him drive the ball more, but I could be wrong on that assumption.

by wcooley on Jan 22, 2007 3:07 PM EST up reply actions

Wait a minute

are you saying that you are roughly 6'0" tall and 130 lbs? If so, time to get your ass to the the local buffet.

by wcooley on Jan 22, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions

More or less...

...I'm about that "big." Some day maybe my metabolism will slow down and I'll grow into an adult weight.

by ubelmann on Jan 22, 2007 3:23 PM EST up reply actions

YOu

I somewhat envy that body type because if you start lifting weights at all you'll look really cut with your already lack of fat.

Gleeman.com-esque comment, but it's true, I've always envied the super skinny guys in that way. It may suck to be skinny, but it's really easy to change from that point.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 22, 2007 7:26 PM EST up reply actions

Hunter

What was Hunters stats back when he was in AA? I remember wondering why he was a prospect bassed on what he was doing.

by doofus04 on Jan 23, 2007 9:44 AM EST reply actions

Minors

Torii had 3 go 'rounds at AA.
Year Age G AVG OBP SLG 1996 21 99 263 331 401 1997 22 127 231 305 338 1998 23 88 282 329 438

He really didn't start hitting until AAA at Salt Lake. Year Age G AVG OBP SLG 1998 23 26 337 347 543 1999 24 55 368 403 727
I don't know that his second year at Salt Lake is really all that great considering he was
A) 25
B) Had played 135 games and had 380+ at bats in the majors the previous year.

by GACTwinFan on Jan 23, 2007 10:44 AM EST reply actions

AAA

AAA numbers that high are great even if you are 30.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 23, 2007 10:51 AM EST up reply actions

SLG

If Denard Span has an SLG over 400 at AAA this year, I'll buy eveyone on this board a beer.

Joe Mauer for MVP (for real).

by cmathewson on Jan 23, 2007 11:12 AM EST up reply actions

Beer

So I've got a new rooting interest!

Any restriction on the type of beer? Or the establishment at which its purchased/served (bar or ballpark)?

by spycake on Jan 23, 2007 8:45 PM EST up reply actions

NOt

Not Grain Belt Premium or Nattie light. Maybe Sam Adams?

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 23, 2007 8:52 PM EST up reply actions

Summit

In any of the varieties offered in October, which would include Extra Pale Ale, India Pale Ale, Extra Special Bitter, and that whimpy Grand Lager.

Support your local brewery!

Joe Mauer for MVP (for real).

by cmathewson on Jan 23, 2007 9:33 PM EST up reply actions

I'd be happy...

...with a .300 average and 75% success with about 25 stolen bases.

by roger @ Twinkie Town on Jan 23, 2007 9:42 PM EST up reply actions

Hmm

I guess we'd have to be, but I'd just as soon he really tanks so the Twins finally totally give up on him.

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 23, 2007 9:55 PM EST up reply actions

1.130

Posting a 1.130 OPS is obscene, no matter the level.

by ravenfly on Jan 23, 2007 1:01 PM EST up reply actions

Salt Lake and the PCL

I don't know that 1.130 in the PCL (at least at that time) really meant that much. Check out some other dudes that year...

Player Team OPS Jay Canizaro SL 1103 Mario Valdez SL 1078 Chris Daniels Albu 1100 There were a few more that I ran across, but I have to get ready for work so that's it for now. Those names aren't exactly a who's who in baseball world.

by GACTwinFan on Jan 24, 2007 11:47 AM EST up reply actions

Hey

Hey, I remember Jay Canizaro...

"Baseball is great because you can't take a knee or kill the clock. You have to put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn chance." C Stengel

by AdamOnFirst on Jan 24, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions

Let's add an extra column to that table..

Player Team OPS AB Jay Canizaro SLC 1103 101 Mario Valdez SLC 1078 317 Chris Daniels Albu 1100 ??? (Couldn't find on baseball cube) Torii SLC 1130 209

So sure, the PCL (and particularly Salt Lake) is an environment where offensive levels are very high. But at least partially, we're looking at a small sample size issue here. It's a lot easier to post a 1100+ OPS in half of a season than it is to post it in a full season.

by ubelmann on Jan 24, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions