Open Thread: Starting Lineup, 12/14/2007

Almost Agree

I think that, barring a phenomenal Spring Training by Casilla, Punto would get the start at second on Opening Day. I'm also skeptical that Gardy would put Kubel that high in the order, even though it makes sense, and that Delmon would get handed the cleanup spot, but those are pretty minor quibbles.

by BeefMaster on Dec 14, 2007 12:59 PM EST reply actions

I see

2B - Harris
C - Mauer
LF - Young
1B - Morneau
RF - Cuddyer
DH - Kubel/Monroe
3B - Koskie (I know it's a slim chance, but it makes too much sense)/Punto
CF - Pridie
SS - Punto/Everett

by TheMattWilke on Dec 14, 2007 1:20 PM EST reply actions

Re: Koskie

My bad, I meant to just use players currently with the Twins. Koskie is an interesting choice, though.

So would be Mark Prior...but that's another story...

by Jesse on Dec 14, 2007 1:27 PM EST up reply actions

Fair enough

Yours looks about right then, except for Harris leads off and the 2B du jour hits 9th.

by TheMattWilke on Dec 14, 2007 2:00 PM EST up reply actions

I think it's about right

But I guess it would be this:

3B Harris
DH Kubel
C Mauer
LF Young
1B Morneau
RF Cuddyer
CF Pridie
2B Punto
SS Everett

I don't think Casilla will get a job over Punto as things stand; if Punto isn't starting, it's because they acquire another infielder, which they clearly need to do.

The signing of Everett, for good or ill, clarifies the needs of this lineup--a CF and another infielder--either a 2B or a 3B, with Harris getting the other job. It makes the Ellsbury/Lowrie trade an obvious way to go.

On the other hand, the Cubs, according to LENIII want Nathan. If the Twins could get Felix Pie, it changes the equation. Frankly, if they could do that, I would really try to resign Santana, which I haven't mentioned all winter because it seems so unlikely. Despite his struggles in his ML debut, I think Pie is going to be a good player. He raked at AAA and appears ready now. His (Pre-2007) PECOTA showed a remarkably consistent above-average EQA over the next few years.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 14, 2007 1:34 PM EST reply actions

Nathan for Pie

Oh man. Something wonderful just happened in my pants thinking about getting Pie for Nathan.

How dumb is Hendry? That dumb? We can dream.

by ravenfly on Dec 14, 2007 4:05 PM EST up reply actions

Yea,

If the Twins are getting anywhere close to finishing up a trade of Santana I hope that they are also talking to Prior's agent.

richman

by anderson800 on Dec 14, 2007 1:36 PM EST reply actions

2B/3B

Echoing the sentiment that Gardy would definitely choose Punto over Casilla if the season started today. But I do think the organization still has high hopes for Casilla long term and will keep an eye on him through this season. It's certainly possible he could take over the starting job sometime this year if his play demands it.

Also, if today were opening day, Buscher might also be considered at 3B and even Macri. But you're probably right that the nod would go to Harris at this exact time since they just went and acquired him and are touting his hitting ability.

by adam @ Twinkie Town on Dec 14, 2007 1:47 PM EST reply actions

Well, thankfully...

the season DOESN'T start today.

I still see us either acquiring a real 3b or eventually caving and putting Cuddyer back there, and Harris/Casilla battling over 2b.

If Harris wins, Casilla goes to AAA. If Casilla wins, Harris becomes a 2nd utility guy with Punto.

by djskilbr on Dec 14, 2007 2:15 PM EST reply actions

I see things like this

Just using the players we have I see

CF Monroe or in LF
3b Harris
C Mauer
RF Cuddyer
1b Morneau
LF Young or in CF
DH Kubel
SS Everett
2b Punto/ Casilla

or I see this lineup
CF Monroe or in LF
2B Harris
C Mauer
RF Cuddyer
1b Morneau
LF Young or in CF
DH Kubel
3B Buscher/ Macri
SS Everett

It would depend on how the players perform in spring training but here would be lots of jobs up for competition this spring.

but I suspect that before the season starts we will get a CF whether it be Patterson or Lofton and Pridie will get some time there to see if he can win the job.

by doofus04 on Dec 14, 2007 3:06 PM EST reply actions

I agree, but...

Maybe Buscher at third. Hopfully, Johan will get dealt for a good CF at least.

Visit my blog at Twins Territory. http://www.twins-territory.blogspot.com/

by Twins Territory on Dec 14, 2007 4:56 PM EST reply actions

Well, apparently you can pencil Mike Lamb

in at 3B; Joe C is reporting they signed him.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 14, 2007 5:52 PM EST reply actions

Wow!

I'm sure this line-up is scary to the pitchers in Cleveland, Detroit, Chicago...and I see them shivering in Kansas City.

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Dec 14, 2007 6:12 PM EST reply actions

New Line up

CF Monroe or in LF
3b Lamb
C Mauer
RF Cuddyer
1b Morneau
LF Young or in CF
DH Kubel
2B Harris
SS Everett

Well with a CF its a solid lineup and one the Twins can win with if they can keep enough runs off the board.

by doofus04 on Dec 14, 2007 8:50 PM EST reply actions

1 change to lineup

Actually with this lineup I can almost see Mauer leading off.

by doofus04 on Dec 14, 2007 8:51 PM EST up reply actions

New Order

C Mauer
3b Lamb
LF Young or in CF
1b Morneau
RF Cuddyer
DH Kubel
CF Monroe or in LF
2B Harris
SS Everett

The line up gets shifted this way so I don't know with Morneau going from 5th to 4th, Cuddyer going from 4th to 5th, Lots of changes but I like this mix the best at this point unless you want to switch Harris and Lamb.

by doofus04 on Dec 14, 2007 8:56 PM EST reply actions

I think...

whoever's in CF (and it won't be Monroe) will be the leadoff.

CF
Kubel-DH
Mauer-C
Young-LF
Morneau-1b
Cuddyer-RF
Lamb-3b
Harris-2b
Everett-SS

Good lineup to me.

by djskilbr on Dec 15, 2007 12:34 AM EST reply actions

That's about right

Gardy might start the season with Cuddy in the clean-up hole because, well because he's Gardy. But Young will be the clean-up hitter before too long. And I really think they'll send Santana to Boston for a package that includes Ellsbury. He's the perfect leadoff hitter for this team, IMO.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Dec 15, 2007 8:52 AM EST up reply actions

I agree...

that Cuddy will start at the 4 spot, but eventually he and Young will switch as Young shows more patience/power. I really like the thought of Young getting that protection in about the best lineup spot in baseball (between Mauer/Morneau) and I also really like the thought of Cuddyer protecting Morneau because Cuddyer is an RBI machine. Gardy didn't really seem to have a problem with Kubel at 2 last year and so I hope, and think, he'll continue that.

As for the trade, I agree that I think that's what we'll see. I really think they might eventually cave and we'll get all of Ellsbury-Lester-Lowrie. They'll have to re-up their offer now as I think it's a virtual lock that the Yanks will. Really, Boston had their shot to end this at the winter meetings, and should have.

Virtually everyone there that I spoke with was dumbfounded, in fact, that they would give up that shot for Johan just to keep Lester. While the guy is good--and obviously we want him--he'd be their 7th starter! To me you don't hold up a deal to acquire the best pitcher since Pedro, to have the best staff maybe in the history of the game, AND a great shot to be a dynasty, just to keep a promising young pitcher who would be your 7th starter, 5th next season in the best case scenario. Doesn't make sense to me, as good as Lester is.

by djskilbr on Dec 15, 2007 12:29 PM EST up reply actions

What a difference...

...24 hours makes, with Trader Bill at the helm, eh? This lineup is starting to shape up nicely. Count me amongst the group that really, really, wants to see Kubel in the #2 hole. He hit very well there last year and I hope and pray that Gardy no longer considers him a rookie and he now can become a key part of this team.

by roger @ Twinkie Town on Dec 15, 2007 2:56 PM EST up reply actions

I am

I am hesitant about Kubel in the #2 role for two reasons.

Gardenhrie has his tendency too simply assign positions to spots in the order then just hold there no matter what. If that keeps up this year, that likely means we'd see Monroe get his at bats around #2 as well, and that would be a very unfortunate sighting.
That would make our 2,3, and 5 hitters all left handed. Possibly our eventual leadoff hitter as well.

I'd much rather see Mauer hit number 2, followed by Cuddyer/Young, then with Morneau, etc... This would give Morneau more at bats (what is he doing hitting at 5? Too far down...) keep us from having too many lefties, and honestly make more sense. I know we are so determined to make Mauer hit #3, but he is really a but more prototypically a #2 hitter. At any rate, he doesn't have power that forces you to put him in the middle of the lineup.

I'd like too see:

Ellsbury (if we got him, if not, it's a tough choice on who too put here, Mauer may make the most sense, but that would never happen)
Mauer
Young/Cuddyer
Morneau
Cuddyer/Young
Kubel (Monroe wuld end up here sadly)
Harris
Lamb
Everett

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 15, 2007 6:21 PM EST up reply actions

I can see the Monroe point...

but I honestly think he's only going to see about 150 ab's at DH; Kubel will get the rest.

And I don't think it's a problem having the lefties because both Kubel and Mauer hit lefties fine. Heck, Morneau doesn't really have a problem against them either.

Not a big deal to me personally.

But I see your side Adam.

by djskilbr on Dec 15, 2007 7:09 PM EST up reply actions

Really

"And I don't think it's a problem having the lefties because both Kubel and Mauer hit lefties fine. Heck, Morneau doesn't really have a problem against them either."

Sure about that?

Morneau career
against righties: .289/.361/.530
against lefties: .248/.293/.433

Mauer career
against righties: .330/.419/.521
against lefties: .277/.342/.330

You wanna take the sting out of the middle of our order, you use a lefty. I don't think we need to make that worse.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 15, 2007 7:41 PM EST up reply actions

hmm, that's weird...

good catch Adam.

I thought they were better than that. Apparently Morneau took a big dip this year because in 2006 his numbers were almost identical. I wonder if last year was an anomaly.

I would say it's unfair to use career averages for them because most young players learn to hit their counter-arms as they go along, but struggle early. It looks like Morneau did exactly that (Mauer improved some too but not nearly as much) but then regressed in 2007.

I still would go with that order though. Kubel hit VERY well from the #2 slot in the order, and I think it helps both him and Mauer. Kubel should have a lot more pitches to hit. Plus, personally, I don't care about a #3 hitter being a "power" guy; I'm more the philosophy that your #3 hitter should be your best hitter, period, and I think that's Mauer.

Reasonable people can certainly disagree on this though. I just prefer a 2-7 of Kubel-Mauer-Young-Morneau-Cuddyer-Lamb. You have lefty-righty throughout there except for your 2-3 hitters.

By the way, this is also yet another reason I would be in favor of Cameron over Lofton, because he's a RH hitter. He doesn't fit the leadoff mode, that's true, but in that case, I might just put Mauer at leadoff actually, much like Sizemore has been.

by djskilbr on Dec 15, 2007 9:15 PM EST up reply actions

To further that...

would this be so bad?

Mauer
Kubel
Young
Morneau
Cuddyer
Lamb
Cameron
Harris
Everett

I wouldn't mind that group either.

by djskilbr on Dec 15, 2007 9:16 PM EST up reply actions

I

I just don't see it likely that Gardenhire would put Mauer at leadoff. It's a fully worthwhile idea, I just don't see it happening.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 16, 2007 12:37 AM EST up reply actions

2B

Harris will be starting a second. Casilla will be in AAA. I'm fairly certain on this one.

The potential Santana trade, which I think just had its landscape changed drastically today, obviously could also change everything.

That's not too bad though. I've warmed up to the idea of Everett, and Lamb was a was pickup, I think.

Plus we know have the option of being able to get more AA guys in a Santana trade. Instead of two guys ready right now, we can get on ready right now, and 3 that are a couple years ways (not very far though) and have very high ceilings. That extra year of needed development time COULD buy us a lot more talent.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 15, 2007 2:12 AM EST reply actions

Do the Twins...

...start talking again with Santana about a nice 5-6 year extension? Their payroll right now appears to be around $59-60mm for 25 players. They need to go out and get a center fielder if they don't trade Santana, and they need to do long-term deals with Cuddyer and Morneau...but the $59-60mm includes Cuddyer at $4.0mm and Mornweau at $6.5mm. So maybe a bit more there plus $5-8mm for a centerfielder still leaves more than $5mm less than last year. Maybe they give Santana 5 years at $20mm per year, $5.0mm signing bonus which gets him over $18mm total for next year and then some type of 6th year with a buy-out and guarantee based on innings in years 4 & 5 of the extension. That puts him under contract for 7 years...but protects the Twins in year 7? With this lineup, maybe Johan will be happy that we have a team that can compete with a lot of good young talent?

by roger @ Twinkie Town on Dec 15, 2007 3:04 PM EST reply actions

Cameron - Money

Does Mike Cameron get paid for the 25 games he misses next year? It's not that much but if we sign him for $6 million, he'd lose about $1 million in salary - for the penny pinching twins, that's a decent amount.

by Chaddens on Dec 16, 2007 2:24 PM EST up reply actions

I'm hopeful for that too Roger...

and it could work.

I don't know if I see it happening, but man it would be nice to see. I really think we can contend for the whole shebang next year if Johan's here and Cisco's healthy. I'll take that 1-2 over anyone come playoff time. And with a decent CF (like Cameron/Lofton) we've got the best lineup the Twins have had that I can remember. At least since '87.

by djskilbr on Dec 15, 2007 4:38 PM EST reply actions

CF's

I agree about signing Santana, but I'm worried that you can't sign someone once you've started offering him in trade. But, lets say we keep him......

Does anyone have any thoughts on the ability of Young/Monroe to play CF? How bad would they really be? With a rotation of Cuddyer/Young/Monroe/Kubel/Pridie in the outfield and DH, we would seem to have a strong lineup, and wouldn't have to go spend any more money on anyone, while getting as many of our weapons in the lineup as possible. (more $ for Santana?)

So, how bad are they? Are they so bad that they would negate the improvement in our lineup? At least we would have some real strong arms in the outfield.

Also, if this is a good option, is there any chance Gardy would be comfortable with it?

by snolls on Dec 15, 2007 7:49 PM EST reply actions

They

They could, and would, be pretty bad.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Dec 15, 2007 8:19 PM EST up reply actions

Young

I understand they wouldn't be superstars, but how bad would they be. With Young, my question comes out like this. He's got the speed, and he's definitely got the arm, so are his reads so bad, that he would give up more runs than he makes up over kenny lofton?

by snolls on Dec 16, 2007 6:01 AM EST up reply actions