Nathan, haven't we figured it out yet?

by MagikLair on Apr 15, 2007 5:00 PM EDT Comment 12 comments

I don't understand why we haven't learned that Nathan always struggles when the team does not have the lead. This it is nothing new but I guess we haven't figured it out yet. Eventually we'll learn, it's just a matter of how many games are lost. When was last time he has done well without the lead? A non save situation.

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Starting Pitching

I'm more worried about Gardy's treatment of the starting pitchers. We have a very good bullpen, and Gardenhire is stuck on the goal of having starters go 7 innings.

This was an issue the last two years, with Lohse, Silva last year, Baker, and Bonser. With all of our starters, except Santana, Gardy needs to pull them after they escape the 5th or 6th inning. Only leave them in if they had a sharp inning. All of these guys need confidence more than anything else, and it's early in the year, and they need to stretch their arms out. We have a great bullpen. If we can get 5 good innings out of Silva, Ponson, Bonser, Ortiz, Garza, Guerrier, Slowey, whoever, at least for a while, we need to be happy. Only leave them in for 6 or 7 if they are mowing them down.

Any thoughts?

by snolls on Apr 15, 2007 5:16 PM EDT reply actions

I would agree...

It seems we have a couple guys you mentioned that seem to be 5-6 inning pitchers. But, doesn't Nathan struggle in non save situations? Somebody else should get the call or just stay in for an extra inning.

by MagikLair on Apr 15, 2007 6:00 PM EDT reply actions

I think

You're overblowing Nathan's performance thusfar.

Suggesting Nathan can't pitch without a lead is silly. He's just not 'on', or 'himself' quite yet. I know I'd rather see Nathan on the mound during our most critical innings than Neshek or Reyes or Rincon. He'll be fine, and these worries will all seem wacky in a month or so.

by gophersw on Apr 15, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

it wasn't just this performance...

Every time there is a hold situation or when we have a large lead Nathan seems to struggle... Dick and Bert eluded to this on the post game. In save situations he seems to do fine...

by MagikLair on Apr 15, 2007 7:56 PM EDT up reply actions

2005

Was the last time he lost a game. But he's been brought into something like 20 tie games over that span. So I'm not buying it. I just think he's struggling in general right now. It's just s slump, which most relievers go through from time to time when they lose control of their out pitch.

Free Matt Garza.

by cmathewson on Apr 15, 2007 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions

Still........

What is the need for Nathan in the 9th in a tie game...unless he REALLY needs the work. Okay, Monday is an off day.

This time around, a-ok.

by twintown on Apr 15, 2007 7:39 PM EDT reply actions

If that's what Dick and Bert think...

...then Dick and Bert are wrong.

Last season, Joe Nathan entered the game 8 times when it was tied. The Twins won 7 of those games, and in the 8th game, Nathan pitched a full inning and allowed zero runs. You can check his record here.

Last year, when the game was tied, Nathan limited hitters to an .158/.256/.184 line, which is great, awesome, dominant, superb, etc., etc., etc. It's a couple (literally one or two) more walks than you would expect from his overall .158/.212/.242 performance, but fewer extra base hits, which is exactly what you would want if one home run or double or whatever is going to lose you the game.

No, if last year taught the Twins anything, it's that Joe Nathan is really, really awesome in tie games. And with Crain out of service, Guerrier having pitched two innings, Reyes used for today, Perkins used up yesterday, and Nathan on two days rest, Nathan is a great choice for that situation--because when you are tied in a home game there can't be a save situation. We lost with our best pitcher on the mound. It happens, but it's better than watching us lose knowing that you're just going to leave your best pitcher on the bench for the rest of the night because of a misguided notion that he can't get it up for a tie game.

ANYONE looks like they struggle with the game tied, because anything that goes bad gets amplified that much. But even in tied games, even the very best pitcher will allow hits sometimes. Fans have the most bizarre expectations for relief pitchers sometimes. Even the best aren't going to be perfect.

by ubelmann on Apr 15, 2007 8:27 PM EDT reply actions

Nathan

Nathan struggles out of save situations, but not in tie games, because he can still focus for whatever reason. He struggles in big lead situations usually, when it doesn't hurt for him to struggle.

He's just not gong so hot right now in general. The last three times he's been out he's been hit around. He'll get it back on track, and probably soon.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Apr 15, 2007 8:38 PM EDT reply actions

I repeat:

His slider goes about 45 ft right now. When he gets that back over the plate, we'll forget about this sliver of humanity he's showing us.

by TheMattWilke on Apr 16, 2007 10:43 AM EDT reply actions

dot dot dot

I dont even know why Guerrier wasnt allowed to pitch the 9th inning. He breezed through the 2 inning he did pitch and only threw 22 pitches

by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Apr 16, 2007 5:15 PM EDT reply actions

you'd really

rather see Guerrier throw a third inning than stick the best reliever out there?

Yesterday's game was an exception. If a similiar situation pops up during tomorrow's game, I hope they call Nathan in during a tie game. There is no evidence that suggests Nathan loses his filth when he doesn't pitch with a lead.

by gophersw on Apr 16, 2007 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions

Work Work

Part of the thinking was that Monday is an off day, so I'm sure Gardy wanted to get Nathan an inning of work...and possibly a win.

Noticed that Neshek ahd warmed up the night before. He could've pitched, saving Nathan for later.

But probably was the above thought of Nathan holding the Rays, the Twins coming abck in the 9th, or if they needed to go 10 or more, bring in Neshek to pitch 1-3 innings.

by twintown on Apr 17, 2007 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions