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TR and pitching

Recently TR's effectiveness as a GM has been called into question. Few can argue that he lacks skills in acquiring quality pitching via trades and that one good rule 5 pickup, but he has failed year after year to fill positions in the lineup (Batista?). Whether or not this is TR's fault is up for debate.  His recent attitude is an obvious sign of frustration. My question: is he frustrated with 1. Fans,media,bloggers? or 2. Ownership and spending?

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I
realize this is all speculation.
In Terry we Trust.

by WITwinsfan on May 11, 2007 10:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Frustrating Terry
We have to give credit to Terry Ryan for being cautious at times.

It's fun being an arm-chair general manager, but so much goes into player moves and development. You look at skills, personality, team fit, what you have coming down the chute, what you don't need that's in the chute, and what is available out there in the market place.

If there is one gripe, it seems the Twins worry too much about giving away something potentially good for anything. They wait too long before pulling the plug on players and thus the players have no value or worth when they could have possibly landed something with meat earlier.

I keep thinking about when they could've traded Joe Mays, or Mike Restovich, or even The Real Deal. Do you pull a deal now with Silva or Ortiz as the centerpeice or wait for the sesaon to catch up to them. Do you dangle Kubel, whoise stock isn't all that high anymore? You need to gamble and get Baker some worth by having him as a back-end starter. He can't destroy his value any less if he does badly.

Other teams DON't want Minnesota castoffs for their players. They do want some value in exchange. So you have to trade hot guys for hot guys/cool guys/guys with potential.

Except the recent talks about the Reds third baseman...yet would Gardy play him over Nick Punto -- think not. But maybe he could DH.

The pain os being a general manager is that EVERYONE wants the good guys. You can't trade Lew Ford, Scott Baker, Josh Rabe, Luis Rodriguez, because teams will wait you out. You can trade Juan Rincon or Jesse Crain, but how much are they worth? You can rtade prospects if you don't care if they become the next Francisco Liriano (which few do).

And, yes, part of the problem is the purse strings. You overpay team guys who you like and have nothing left over to GAMBLE with on someone who may/may not pan out. The Twins can afford to eat a couple of million in salary via the disabled list, but they can't eat $10 million (okay, they can, but Jim Pohlad needs it for his new house on Lake of the Isles).

by twintown on May 11, 2007 10:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I
I disagree with this, and the next couple posts about ryan waiting too long with players then getting no value.  I especially disagree with "Other teams DON't want Minnesota castoffs for their players. They do want some value in exchange. So you have to trade hot guys for hot guys/cool guys/guys with potential."

What about guys like Romero and BuC Buchanon?  They played terribly with their team for a short time, and only one is even still hanging on in the league.  The signs of the end were there in both players and both weren't traded at their peaks.  Yet we got BOTH piece of a talented, speedy, and defensively stout middle infield of the future by trading those two players.

teams cannot manage to trade EVERYONE before they are waived.  it just doesn't happen.  otherwise, nobody would be on waivers.

I understand the sentiment that Ryan can be too reluctant to pull the string on a deal, but when has that actually happened?  he hasn't NOT made a deal yet.  We don't actually know who is available out there and for what.  To this point, he's made very few poor trades or trades that didn't end up in big gains for the Twins.  look at both deals with the reds last year.  Good prospects, including a center fielder who may be ready for a try in 2009 for Juan Castro.  Anything of value for Kyle Lohse.

In the metaphor of the Twins geek, I'm a little tired of the bolgosphere being WAY too much the part of "fluffy the dog" this year.  everyone needs to calm down a bit.  If there is something out there that makes sense, TR will see what is possible.  Everyone needs to stop acting like it is so easy to come up with new power bats.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on May 11, 2007 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point......
Ryan has been able to make mid-season and late season trades of castoffs for potential. In this arena, he scores points.

And, yes...none of us do know what is available all the time, what salary ahs to be abosrbed, and we often forget that a player just might not fit on the team.

by twintown on May 11, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ryan and trades
One complaint I've had about Ryan is a general reluctance to make trades, to gamble.  I'm not altogether sure that has to do with monetary constraints or not.

He was quoted in an interview earlier this year as saying he doesn't like to trade guys who are good. While it may be a throwaway line, it exactly encapsulates the problem, IMO.

He should have traded one of the relievers last year when their value was high; I absolutely would have made the deal that Washington did with the Reds, with either Crain or Rincon as the centerpiece. The handling of Mientkiewicz was a classic example: he was coming off his 2nd good season in the past 3 years, was still arb eligible, and Justin Morneau was waiting.  Instead of cashing him in, they signed him to a 2 year deal, he got off to a horrendous start, it was embarrassing that Morneau was still in Rochester, their hand was forced by the Olympics, and they dumped Mientkiewicz for nothing at the deadline.

I advocated heavily that they should trade Lew Ford after his big year; I still think they could have cashed in Nathan for tremendous value last off-season (though I recognize that's controversial), etc.  

In a way, the Pierzynski deal was the exception that proves the rule. They actually did trade someone in his prime, who could play, and had value on the marketplace.  That worked out OK.  

Look, chances are that no current prospects are going to be Liriano--that's an incredibly rare talent.  You can't hang on to these guys forever on the off chance that they all become all-stars, and this team needs some freaking bats.  Gotta look at making a deal for Encarnacion or Ensberg, or somebody to play 3rd base. The lack of power is not going to go away with the current roster.

by Eric in Madison on May 11, 2007 11:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would add to this...
...that there is little power on the farm above A ball. So if ever a case could be made to get a bat, this would be it. If Ryan doesn't make a deal, I think your characterization of him as overly risk averse is conformed.
Free Kevin Slowey.

by cmathewson on May 11, 2007 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm
sure that TR takes comfort in knowing that Phil Nevin is still avalable for pennies as a free agent.
In Terry we Trust.

by WITwinsfan on May 11, 2007 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh...
SNAP!

Nice one.

by Jesse on May 11, 2007 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he needs to address the lack of power...
We obviously lack power from A ball as cmathewson mentioned.  So the only way to compensate for this is to make trades happen which he is reluctant to do....  So we now have about 4+ single type hitters in our lineup.  It's hard to win many games with all or most hits being singles.

by MagikLair on May 11, 2007 2:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Available pitching......
Lets look at what the Twins have in the minors, okay, guys?

AAA -- No chance: Dave Gassner. Oldsters: Carman Cali, Mike Venafro, Jeremy Cummings. Questionable: Bobby Korecky. Unknown: Brian Bass. On the fringe: Scott Baker, Ricky Barrett, Jason Miller. True prospects: Glen Perkins, Matt Garza, Kevin Slowey, Julip DePaula.

AA -- Oldsters: Bryan Forystek, Jesse Floyd, Brad Baker. On the fringe: Nick Blackburn, Tristan Crawford, JP Martinez, Errol Simonitsch. Questionable: Tim Lahey, Daniel Powers. Prospects: Brian Duensing, Jay Sawatski, Anthony Swarzak, Jose Mijares.

A Ft. Myers -- Prospects: Jay Rainville, Kyle Waldrop, Alexander Smit, Eddie Morlan, Ryan Mullins, Yohan Pino, Oswaldo Sosa. Questionable: Angel Garcia, Frank Mata, David SHinskie, Zach Ward. Maybe not: Kyle Aselton, Josh Hill.

A Beloit -- Prospects Jeffrey Manship, Alex Brunett, Robert Delaney. Questionable: Adam Hawes, Jose Lugo, Danny Vais, Dan Leatherman, Sean Land, Daniel Berg, Jesus Carnevale.

At least 17 legit prospects and many on the cusp. Considering that you MIGHT be lucky to add 1-2 pitchers per season, the Twins are more than set for working talent into the rotation or bullpen for the next 3-4 years, with lots leftover to go somewhere else.

by twintown on May 11, 2007 2:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

twintown...
...were you at the Derby?  Guessing you must have been to have renamed Julio DePaula, Julip.

I think a lot of Mr. Ryan's hesitation to trading pitching prospects is, can anyone tell us which of those 17 will make it?  I am happy the Twins have 17 prospects and hope that we do get 1-2 a year from this group for the next 4 years.  I also wouldn't be adverse to trading someone who is close.  It is likely they have a better handle on what to expect from someone such as Scott Baker than say, Ryan Mullins.  And lets not forget that he has used prospects for trades, as he recently did with Travis Bowyer and Scott Tyler.  

by roger on May 11, 2007 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Benefit of the doubt
Couple things:

He will trade quality prospects if he thinks he can fill an obvious hole. The Castillo trade is such a case. He just values his own prospects more highly than other GMs typically do, so he's reluctant to give up a lot to get a little.

So far he has not gotten good offer. But I'm sure he would listen to reasonable offers. I always think of him as a no-nonsense, straight-forward guy. But many of his comments in seasons past have been pretty good poker bluffs. It doesn't help him if he proclaims to the world that he's looking for a bat. That will only drive up his price. So perhaps he's playing coy a bit here and trying to see if he gets a reasonable offer before he shows his cards.

Free Kevin Slowey.

by cmathewson on May 11, 2007 3:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Playing Poker
"It doesn't help him if he proclaims to the world that he's looking for a bat. That will only drive up his price."

It's kind of hard to bluff something that is a neon sign 50 feet high burning in the night.

by MNPundit on May 11, 2007 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agreed...
It would be different if we had some offensive options..  But there are none to speak (highly) of.

by MagikLair on May 11, 2007 5:42 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Think it's time
to give in and admit that your current composition of players has no chance of making the playoffs, Terry? Banish fatass Ponson, and quit spooning with Nick Punto's defense. The alternatives CANNOT BE WORSE.
Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on May 12, 2007 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

offensive comment
Why not pick up Todd Walker as an interim solution while a few players are on the DL?  He can play 1b, dh, pinch hit.  That would give the Twins some insurance for the next few weeks till the injured get healthy and I'm sure he'll hit better than some of the players we keep trotting out there.

Also I see Matt Tolbert is tearing it up down on the farm.  There are 2 options that cost nothing.  Now do something  TR.  Even if it is just for the next 2 weeks.

by doofus04 on May 13, 2007 10:50 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tolbert
I think Tolbert should replace L-Rod for now at any rate.  He can play short and looks like he can hit better.

I'm not sure if this is long term  sustainable for Tolbert, I still think of him as  a good utility player (great in Gardenhire's get away day B lineups), but I'm very willing to ride the hot hand for now.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on May 13, 2007 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Todd Walker
I bet Todd Walker's desire to return to Minnesota is even less than the Twins desire to see him back here.

Always thought Todd got the raw end of the deal -- too many expectations, his position changed, he was told to adjust his hitting, his fielding wasn't always there (still learning some things)...but he sure could hit and put the ball in play.

Someone will pick him up. But not the Twins.

Luver of Twins history, cards and the minor leagues.

by twintown on May 13, 2007 11:05 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agreed...
I also always thought he got a bit of a raw deal, his whole career.  He could really hit.  

And I'd also like to see him here for a couple weeks, but I agree that it probably won't happen.

by djskilbr on May 13, 2007 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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