Hunters Comments

by WITwinsfan on Jul 10, 2007 12:53 PM EDT Comment 35 comments

Hunter recently made comments to the Chicago Tribune regarding his free agent status at the end of this season. Hunter commented that :"Three months from now, I'm going to be a free agent. And if we don't start talking [about a contract] now, we'll never talk." Hunter basically is saying that he wants a deal now, or not at all in case you didn't get that. TR has recently stated on KSTP that for a Hunter deal to work that the contract has to be "sane" for both parties and only then could a deal be reached.

But this comment just kills me:
"But I see the New York Yankees on TV every night, a lot of people know who Johnny Damon is. No one knows who Torii Hunter is, and I've been playing for 10 years, and it's tough. I want to be out there in a big market and I want to try it out before I get out, and I know I got a chance to win in a bigger market."

Ouch...That's more than a little insulting to the fans that have been cheering for him since he became a full time player in 99. Hunters comments regarding his contract are increasing, and increasingly annoying. I'm tired of the show me the money attitude Hunter has. He now has repeatedly thrown the fans under the bus with his comments and insulted the intelligence as well as passion of the fans.

Here is the link:

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-070709allstarbits,1,6345913,print.st ory?coll=cs-home-headlines

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Cut Him Some Slack

I think it's pretty harsh to say that Torii is throwing the Twins fans under the bus. I mean, he's probably just frustrated that the media pays attention to the large markets far more then the small ones. Especially ESPN.

As far as him stating that he wants to try out playing for a large market, it sounds like leverage. He is likely just wanting to make it known to teams (specifically the Twins) that he will leave if need be.

I agree that he is trying to leverage the willingness of larger markets to pay him more to the Twins, but that's all I see here. He just wants the Twins to commit to him ASAP. he's basically saying that the Twins likely won't be able to re-sign him once he's an unrestricted free agent.

-Flip

by Flip27 on Jul 10, 2007 1:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Seriously, who cares?

The guy's under the stress of realizing that he's leaving this year. He's getting questioned about it in every city he goes. And the guy likes to talk. Of course he's going to say some questionable things.

I think Torii is a pretty cool guy. And it doesn't hurt that he's raking this year.

by TheMattWilke on Jul 10, 2007 2:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Honesty

I don't get bent out of shape at what he says to the press. It's part of who he is. He never beats around the bush or lies. He just says what's on his mind; and that's refreshing. Besides, it's a package deal and in the scheme of things, this part of the package is just not that important. What is important is the way he behaves around the team. And aside from one lapse in judgment, his 10 years here have shown excellent character.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 10, 2007 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re:

Are you talking at the swing at Morneau in 2005?

Because if so, in Torii's defense, who DIDN'T want to take a swing at Morneau in '05?

by TheMattWilke on Jul 10, 2007 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

He might have wanted to take a swing at him. And Morneau might have deserved it. But it's still not appropriate to do so. He could have handled that a lot better, especially with the way he was handling his injury. He stayed away from the team for most of the second half, and in his only appearance in the clubhouse, he tried to sucker punch the regular first baseman. I wasn't there, so I don't know what went down. But I do know that starting a fight with a teammate is never a good way to handle conflict.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 10, 2007 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Re:

I was being facetious. I probably should have included an emoticon, huh. ;)

Of course you shouldn't take a swing at a teammate. Even if he is partying too much, constantly getting sat down the same way (Morneau's 05: fastball away, fastball away, curveball low and in the dirt) twice a game, not living up to his potential and not really caring in the process. Actually, maybe I'm not being facetious..... :)

by TheMattWilke on Jul 10, 2007 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What do you mean?

What are you talking about? Why would everyone want to punch Morneau?

by by jiminy on Jul 10, 2007 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

hunter

Stress aside. Making comments like those, as good natured as he may be makes him look bad.

In Terry we Trust.

by WITwinsfan on Jul 10, 2007 2:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

To whom?

Because as an upcoming free agent, he was looking quite good in an All-Star jersey.

by TheMattWilke on Jul 10, 2007 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm tired of Torii's press schtick...

Ever have a friend who is a pretty great guy, but there's one thing he does that really bothers you?

It's not like I don't think Torii is a good ballplayer, I'm just sick of hearing crap like this in the press. No one made Torii sign his last contract. If he really wanted to be in a big market, he could've been there by now. He chose to stay here, and he should stop whining about it already.

by ubelmann on Jul 10, 2007 4:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

boring

Athletes and coaches are among the the most boring people on earth to listen to. The best thing about Tony Kornheiser's old radio show was that he put no athletes on air.

But they are boring for a reason, and part of that is whenever they speak out they get blasted by the media and the fans. And much of this is political and partisan. For instance, when Curt Schilling endorsed GW Bush I called him a "dumb jock," but when Carlos Delgado spoke out against the war I said "He has the right to say what he thinks."

Athletes are boring, but we, the fans, are part of what make them that way.

by wcooley on Jul 11, 2007 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I prefer boring...

...to what Torii's free agency campaign has become.

And I think that athletes could give more interesting interviews if the interviewers weren't constantly asking questions to which there is no good answer the player can give (the sports equivalent of the "does this dress make your wife look fat?" question) or if interviewers stopped making long, rambling statements that they then ask athletes to comment on.

by ubelmann on Jul 11, 2007 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Right

A lot of this is on the interviewers. That's why I don't blame Torii so much. He can either be evasive and seem like a jerk or he can answer honestly and seem like a jerk. Of the two, I'd rather have honsety.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 11, 2007 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

Although this supports the argument that your prefer your baseball players to be stat-generating automatons rather than real humans. From what I've read about Torii's personal life he has experienced a great deal.

by wcooley on Jul 11, 2007 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Torii has been through a lot...

...in the past. I'm just sick of seeing a guy characterized as a great leader angling to play for other teams. I see a disconnect between the things he says in the press and the contention that he is a great team leader. This is the sort of stuff that I would expect your standard issue player to be saying to the press--not someone who should be upheld as the "face of the franchise."

Although this supports the argument that your prefer your baseball players to be stat-generating automatons rather than real humans.

That is only true if you think that players can't say anything interesting without doing what Hunter has done. Who else have I criticized for their comments to the media?

by ubelmann on Jul 11, 2007 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Leader? Face of the Franchise?

If Torii is the Face of the Franchise (FoF) for the fans it is in part due to the fact that he is a dynamic, attractive, and interesting guy who gives it his all and speaks his mind. But no one on the Twins would call him the team leader. In fact Souhan said last weekend that Hunter barely talks to anyone on the team anymore.

Maybe some prefer Vanilla Thrillas like Joe Mauer, but I kind of like it that Torii says what most of the players in his situation are thinking. Remember when he complained that the Twins lacked a "big bat" right after they gave him a huge "big bat" contract? Torii says some dumb shit, but he is human.

by wcooley on Jul 11, 2007 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Full disclosure

Come to think of it, the only other Twin who has said anything newsworthy this year is Matt Garza, and I ripped him for sounding like a meathead. So maybe I prefer replicants as well.

by wcooley on Jul 11, 2007 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Torii

I like Torii, and I don't believe he thinks badly of the fans or his Minnesota days, but I think he got a little too affected by seeing all his freinds from the old regime leave, especially Jacque Jones.

His attitude is pretty typical though. Once he's a free agent, he's a free agent and he's gonna' take care of himself. I can't blame him for that. I haven't seen him ever be a major clubhouse problem (the Morneau incident notwithstanding) and he always give 100% on the field. If I was Torii Hunter, I'd be a little frustrated by the lack of press too. Then again, he does get really mercenary sometimes.

Bottom line, he said he didn't really ant the team to take his option, he'd rather have a long term deal or free agency, but he hasn't complained, he hasn't demanded a trade. He's just gone out and played and hit and caught the ball like always. He understands as much as anyone else how the economics work around here, but for now, while he's still a Twin, he is 100% in it for the Twins. In this day and age, that's really all you can ask.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Jul 10, 2007 5:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

he's a bit much

I'm a bit annoyed by his constant angling for a job with other teams. When he was in New York a reporter asked him if he would like to play there, and he said he'd love to because the fans are so knowledgeable. He said in New York hecklers say things like, "You'll never hit that slider!" He said people in Minneapolis aren't knowledgeable enough to heckle like that. Thanks, Torii.

He's very full of himself, which is not a quality I particularly like -- but insulting his own fans and selling himself to other markets before he's finished here are downright insulting.

Besides, he gets plenty of attention for his defense on ESPN!

He has every right to go get as much money as he can, but if that's his attitude he shouldn't whine when the Twins make decisions for economic reasons too. Does he really think the Twins owed him personally to resign Jones when they couldn't afford him? Even though he openly disses us?

I love him as an outfielder, but I was never impressed by his refusal to try to improve his plate discipline because "that's just not who he is." What does that even mean?

I'd have no objection to signing him for one or two years, but there's no way he'll be worth his salary in three or four years, and there's a very good chance he won't even be worth it next year. Remember last year?

I wish the Twins could afford him, because they'll be facing a big step down from that position next year. But in this salary structure, they should definitely not mortgage the farm to keep Torii Hunter.

by by jiminy on Jul 10, 2007 5:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Re:

But you don't find it at the very least a bit amusing?

I mean there was an article today in the Chicago Sun Times about the possibility of Kenny Williams ponying up for him this offseaon. And he said something to the effect of loving the grass. Haha! This is the town that since his 2004 collision with Jamie Burke has taunted racially, professionally, and personally ever since. But since there's a potential paycheck, he said something nice about the Sox. "I love the hops on the grass, Kenny!"

That's entertaining to me, and also I understand why he's doing it.

by TheMattWilke on Jul 10, 2007 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or maybe...

He is playing "the game."

He is trying to get his name in the press as much as possible, so that, he will have the best chance to sign the best deal next season. I would also like to point out, that these are responses to questions from reporters...I don't think Hunter, or any athlete is calling for cameras to come to him, so he can talk about where he wants to play next year. The media is paid to write something people want to read (rumors being one) so crap ass "reporters" keep asking these guys the same question over and over...And after all, this is the business angle of the game. I have no say in it, so why really fret about it? One of two things will happen with Hunter, with Santana, with Morneau, with all the guys for the future...they will either stay in MN, or they will go somewhere else.

Also, to say he is selling himself to other clubs...of course he is! Odds are, he will be with another club next year. All of us are looking for better options for employment at all times, so why should a ball player be any different? If I interview for a job, while taking time off of my current job, am I doing the ultimate-evil? No. I am doing what I can to find the best fit for me and mine. The basic desire to find said fit is no different for a ball player than it is for a minimum wage job. Job search is just that...selling yourself, and searching.

by mbennett on Jul 11, 2007 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

I would also like to point out, that these are responses to questions from reporters.

Great point. This is a situation that was bound to happen, and besides, just because Torii might not be handling it how you (I use the pronoun 'you' generically) might want him to, it doesn't make him wrong. The questions are coming to him, and he's always good enough to answer honestly and with good humor and patience. He's getting the exact same questions every day.

Hunter can't worry about what the fans want. This is his career, and he has to do what's best for him and his family. He's earned the right to test the free agent waters, and he's earned the right to market himself. Other teams are going to want Torii--he's a great guy and a pretty solid baseball player.

I hope Torii stays here. I also hope that individual fans stop taking offense to comments not direct that them personally. It's irrelevant.

by Jesse on Jul 11, 2007 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whaaa??

I shouldn't be bothered by what a person I don't personally know says about something that I may not agree with/may not want to hear?

by mbennett on Jul 11, 2007 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Santana...

...was bothered by the NY media about whether he would like to play there, he refused to play along with their little game.

Look at what Hunter is quoted as saying in this interview:

"It started last year. I thought it was going to be my last year. But now it's starting again. Now I'm at peace with it. Whatever happens, I'm ready for it. But it's tough, being in this organization for so long, wearing a Twins uniform. I want to stay here. But you know you have a chance. You see light at the end of the tunnel." (emphasis mine)

And then:

"But I see the New York Yankees on TV every night, a lot of people know who Johnny Damon is. No one knows who Torii Hunter is, and I've been playing for 10 years, and it's tough. I want to be out there in a big market and I want to try it out before I get out, and I know I got a chance to win in a bigger market." (emphasis mine)

He can't have it both ways. Minneapolis isn't suddenly going to grow by 10 million people to become a big market. Big market, or the Twins, which do you want, Torii?

I like Torii Hunter the player, but I'm sick of the way he deals with the media.

by ubelmann on Jul 11, 2007 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fair enough

Good points. Once again I'll play Devil's Advocate...

What I get from those two quotes is that Torii is being pulled in two directions like many of us are pulled in two directions. He wants to be loyal and stay with the team where he's made his name and that gave him a shot, but he wants to see what it's like on the other side of the fence. Santana dealt with it in the most politically correct way, by saying nothing, and I respect that. But Torii likes to talk, and what he's said basically spells out for us how wide open he knows his future is.

If the Twins were to sign him to a contract, that would be the end of Hunter talking about wanting to play in a larger market. But the Twins haven't put an offer on the table that we're aware of, and as a result it's natural for a player of Hunter's talents to be tempted into thinking "what would it be like?"

Because of the situation, Torii is in a position where he can want both things. He has a long-term view of the situation, and understands he could be happy either way. It sounds like he's contradicting himself, but I don't think he is. It's not like being given the option of "cake" or "death" and saying you want both.

by Jesse on Jul 11, 2007 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yankee Mystique.....

No matter how much anyone HATES the Yankees, the prospect of becoming a Bronx Bomber, wearing the pinstrips, being in the center-stage of ESPN every night (whether you succeed or fail on the field), is mind-boggling. Couple that with a massive salary, or even (in the case of Dougie M. or Ron Coomer) a decent salary...you have to think ahrd about the opportunity.

Would you rather be the biggest fish in Minnesota (or Naksas City, or Washington, or Colorado, or Tampa Bay) or play one season (or one game) as a New York Yankee.

Money will ultimately be a major factor.

Or if you don't care about those extra millions (the Mark Buehrle factor), maybe it won't. But the thought of, say, $100 million over $60 million for the same amount of playing time can be a no-brainer. Hey, you get paid -- even if you aren't productive!

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Jul 12, 2007 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hunter

Why do people get annoyed when Hunter speaks? It is true that the everyday Joe across the country has very little knowledge of Torii Hunter yet could name the Red Sox and Yankee bench players. The Twins get no exposure outside their market so Hunter is marketing himself.
I agree with what he says about a contract as well. Why do the Twins feel it is necessary to put contracts off to the last second. They signed Mauer long term early yet balked on Morneau and it will cost them millions. The same with Hunter. The longer the Twins wait the price goes higher and higher. Every person on this board would would try for the largest contract they could acheive. Is isnt like the Twins don't know how to reach him so he is putting some pressure on them to make a decision.

Brian

Fort Myers Miracle Ramblings

by beach64 on Jul 11, 2007 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ryan = risk averse

Why do the Twins feel it is necessary to put contracts off to the last second.

Terry Ryan doesn't like long-term contracts in general. He's been burned a lot by them: Cristian Guzman, Joe Mays, Eric Milton, .... So he errs on the side of caution when it comes to signing guys long term.

And the world of contracts is similar to the world of trades: Buy low and sell high. It makes no sense to sign Hunter to a contract when he's in the middle of a hot streak. If he waits 'till the end of the year, Hunter's season will look a lot like the previous six, perhaps a bit better. And there is always a chance he could get hurt between now and the end of the year. So his value will be more accurate when he goes to the contract table at the end of the season.

Also, as much as the contract is weighing on Hunter, it's also motivating him. Why remove the carrot before you have to?

The Twins do have some time between the end of the year and the free agency period to get something done. I suspect they will address this as soon as the season is over, and perhaps sooner if they are already out of it in September.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 11, 2007 11:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If the Twins are out of it...

I suspect they will address this as soon as the season is over, and perhaps sooner if they are already out of it in September.

If the Twins are out of it, considering salary restrictions in the coming years with arbitration and long-term deals for younger players, and considering this is about as "high" on the buy low-sell high scale that Hunter will get, do you still think the Twins would try to re-sign him? Or if they are out of it, do you think it would behoove the Twins to trade him? I don't want to do it as a Torii fan, but if we were to do it, there was never a better time, and we could get quite a bit for him.

by Jesse on Jul 11, 2007 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Any trade of Hunter....

...would need to bring a league average center fielder and a bundle of prospects in return. Let's say the Yankees offered Cabrera and Duncan, or the Dodgers offered Kemp and LaRoche. I'm sure the Twins would listen to deals like that. The Twins just don't have an everyday center fielder in their system, perhaps above rookie ball. So they can't trade their current center fielder without getting a center fielder in return.

The bigger issue is the deadline right now. Hunter is not the kind of player who can slip through waivers after July 31, so they would need to trade him in the next three weeks or not at all. Again, I'm sure they'll listen to offers, but I'm not optimistic that they'll make a deal like the ones above. Part of the problem is, they're not out of it yet, and I'm sure Ryan doesn't want to mess with things until he knows they are.

If I were a betting man, I would say they swallow hard and resign him after the season. That means they'll have to make other sacrifices to fit his salary in there. But they don't really have much choice if they expect to contend in 2008.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 11, 2007 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Essentially

those were my thoughts as well. Just curious what you thought.

by Jesse on Jul 11, 2007 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

July 31st vs August 31st

Say the Twins are 8 games out come July 31st - are they out of it? I think most would say No so you don't trade Hunter at that point. What if you're 8 games out on August 31st - that's a lot of ground to make up. If you put Hunter through waivers, EVERY TEAM in contention would make a claim for a top 5 center fielder for 2 million dollars for September.

My question is this: What happens if the Twins find themselves too far out of contention on August 31st - do they sign him for 4 years at that point? Similar to what the NBA does for sign and trade deal but within the season - that way they can choose who to trade him, get some prosects and he gets his money.

And if they can't make a trade, oh well, we've got a great centerfielder for 4 more years (but at what dollar amount?).

by Chaddens on Jul 11, 2007 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Even Puckett

Even Puckett was a long-term gone sour. A highly paid executive in his final years with the team...actually, he probably got paid more than 80% of the front office staff...COMBINED.

And long-term contracts are just that...long-term. They will give you a good idea of what you are spending years ahead, but also ties up money that may not be coming in during the coming seasons. Yes, the Twins will have more revenue by THE END of 2010. But they might actually have less in 2011, for example.

You just always wonder how much is enough, yet no one is telling owners they have to pay so much.

I like Buehrle's contact...sounds like a solid $14 mill a year across the board...no $12 this year and $20 four years from now. And if you could sign Johann for that amount, I'd do it in a minute, although the gamble is tehre regarding injuries and such. (Plus, Mark will be, what, 32 when the contract expires. He might have 4-8 more contract years!)

We hear Seattle might pony up $20 a year for a lead-off hitter. Then the question is, how does this hurt the overall look of the team for season's to come? WOuld they do better spreading $15 million a year around to other players and signing someone for $5 mill a year (Bobby Kielty, Lew Ford, anyone).

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Jul 11, 2007 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

TR aways says that he will not trade away the future for the present. If the Twins paid market price to keep Hunter they would be doing just that.

In Terry we Trust.

by WITwinsfan on Jul 11, 2007 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mark Grace

Just called TR and the Twins his Goat of the week on the Fox pre-game show for not getting a deal done with Hunter because he's the face of the franchise. Not taking into account the Twins budget, signing Santana, Morneau, Cuddyer, Nathan, Mauer long term, or the fact that he'd be on the wrong side of 31.

by TheMattWilke on Jul 14, 2007 4:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs