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Garza delivery

I talked to a friend who was at Yankee Stadium the other day when Garza pitched. He was not impressed. He said Garza's delivery on his curveball looked so different from his fastball that he started announcing what the pitch would be before his release, and he was always right. He said the Yankees were sitting on his fastball and hammering it.

Does this ring true to you all? I didn't see the game. But considering all the Twins' concerns about Garza needing better off-speed pitches for his fastball to be effective, this was disturbing. It's a rare fastball that's unhittable when people know it's coming.

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Hammered it?
He gave up two hits, five harmless ground balls and a strike out in two innings. That hardly counts as hammering it.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 5, 2007 12:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think your friend
thinks he's smarter than he is.  It's pretty easy to be an armchair scout and call pitches and brag about being right to you when you weren't there to acknowledge his superiority.  I'm calling bullshit.  Sounds like he just wants to scare you into thinking Garza is telegraphing his pitches.  Seriously, where was he sitting?

I did see Garza pitch, and I'll admit I wasn't watching delivery.  But out of the handful of curveballs he threw, about half of them were pretty good with a nice break, and the Yankee hitters didn't seem to know they were coming.

Definitely wouldn't be worrying about what your friend says.  Let's see how Garza actually performs before we fret over whether his offspeed stuff is good enough.  I'm looking forward to his start against the Sox.

by Jesse on Jul 5, 2007 12:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What it would take
Garza threw only 30 pitches.
  1. I doubt 1 in 1,000,000 fans could pick up a variance in a big-league pitcher's delivery during an entire ballgame, let alone during 30 pitches.
  2. I doubt there were 20 people in the stands who even studied Garza during each of his deliveries.
  3. Lastly, I doubt there was a single fan in attendance who studied him during his bullpen and on-mound warm-up tosses.
If he wasn't watching No. 3, he wasn't interested enough to be looking for a tip-off in Garza's delivery.
"Man, the past is a long and twisty road." -- Satchel Paige.

by Firpo Marberry on Jul 5, 2007 1:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Garza's strikeout
Came on a curveball. So at least one Yankee hitter couldn't tell the difference between the curve and fastball delivery.

Every pitcher has a little slower arm speed for the curve, which is why you mix the slider in to give hitters a different look on the breaking ball. Good hitters recognize the twist of the wrist that you have to use when you throw a breaking ball. That doesn't mean they'll hit it  fair if it's got bite on it. And Garza's breaking balls have good bite.

Garza's challenge is hitting his spots with the breaking stuff, not disguising his pitches. If he hits his spots, his stuff is good enough that, even if they think they know what's coming, they won't have a chance.

Again, he gave up one soft line drive out of eight batters he faced. One bloop and one dribbler through the hole mixed in with five slow rollers and a strikeout is not getting hammered. Perhaps your friend was getting hammered when he said that.

I look forward to seeing him pitch six innings and seeing if the hitters pick something up for the second time through the order. That's a better indicator of whether he's tipping his pitches.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 5, 2007 7:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Throwing fastballs
his curveball looked so different from his fastball that he started announcing what the pitch would be before his release,

I think its a problem if Garza is giving away his curve ball during his windup.

his stuff is good enough that, even if they think they know what's coming, they won't have a chance.

Nobody's stuff is that good against major league hitters.

So at least one Yankee hitter couldn't tell the difference between the curve and fastball delivery.

Or they were struggling to get around on his fastball and were looking to hit his curve and missed it.

Garza has good stuff. But if he throws two pitches, a curve and fastball, and you can tell which is which from the delivery they eventually will time the fastball.

I didn't see the game. But we will see tomorrow how ready Garza is.

by TT on Jul 5, 2007 8:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well
"Nobody's stuff is that good against major league hitters."

Actually, I don't think THAT'S true.  With some of the best pitches in the game, hitters often say they know what' coming and they still can't hit it.  Fransisco Rodriguez could announce a slider to the hitter before he throws it and he still will probably miss it.  Same with Santana's change and Liriano's change a lot of the time.  Rivera only threw one pitch EVER that wasn't too fast for hitters to pick up on, and he has had one of the greatest careers of any reliever ever.  Then you've got physically overpowering things like a Zumaya fastball.  Lot's of pitchers only throw the same pitch over and over, like Carlos Silva, but he's pretty effective.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Jul 5, 2007 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sliders and curves and other pitching info
>>Every pitcher has a little slower arm speed for the curve, which is why you mix the slider in to give hitters a different look on the breaking ball.
  1. Being that not every pitcher has a slider, that would mean those who lack a slider would be dead meat eventually. Yet pitchers who throw fastball and curves can survive if both are good pitchers that they can locate.
  2. The slider fools hitters into thinking it's a fastball. It's not thrown to "give hitters a different look on the breaking ball." You throw a slider off a fastball, not off a curve, in tandem with a curve, or anything else with the curve.
A slider is thrown to make hitters think it's a fastball, not to confuse them that it's a curve. And in fact most hitters will think a good slider is a fastball until the last few feet.

Use sparingly with low-ball hitters.

>> Good hitters recognize the twist of the wrist that you have to use when you throw a breaking ball.

No. By the time the ball rolls off the fingers good hitters are following the baseball. Remember, you've got about half a second in this whole deal, from hand to plate.

What good hitters recognize on the curveball is the early arc, or they pick up the fact the spin is different. This is what they recognize. Knowing the curveball is coming two-tenths of a second into the pitch doesn't mean you'll hit it.  That's the real trick.

Only if a pitcher tips his delivery on the curve will a good hitter recognize there is a different delivery motion -- either an arm angle or other body adjustment that differs from the fastball.

"Man, the past is a long and twisty road." -- Satchel Paige.

by Firpo Marberry on Jul 5, 2007 5:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Your opinion
I just remember interviews of some of the greats, Carew and Puckett to name two. They often said they tried to see the ball out of the pitchers' hand. They looked for the wrist twist and then tried to pick up the spin. Not all took this approach, but those two did.

And Anderson is the one who talks about changing speeds on the breaking ball. Last year he talked about trying to get Garza to throw the curve and slider with the same arm motion, the difference being how tightly he grips the ball as he releases it. That's one way Nathan, Guerrier and Bonser have improved since coming to the Twins: All three throw both the curve and the slider and use the differences in speed and break to keep the hitter of balance. They also use other methods, but it's one way.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 5, 2007 7:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Garza
is clearly tipping his pitches. The White Sox made contact with a few of those! ;P
Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Jul 7, 2007 12:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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