Cirillo traded?

by rayken on Aug 3, 2007 6:30 PM EDT Comment 29 comments

"At about 4:15 p.m., Twins manager Ron Gardenhire pulled Jeff Cirillo off the field to inform him that he had been traded to Arizona. We'll have the details as soon as they become available."

I...didn't see this coming. I really hope this isn't the move to make room for Cuddyer rather than ridding ourselves of the redundant L-Rod.

Thoughts?

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La Velle seemed to say...

that there's more coming. I'm hoping this means Piazza or Hatteberg still, and LRod will be dumped anyway.

I liked Cirillo but his health just wasn't allowing him to help us. Good move if you ask me. TR just saved another $500K. I'm hoping we got something decent for him. Chris Carter?

by djskilbr on Aug 3, 2007 6:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Press release...

...from Twins official site notes that Cirillo was tranferred to Arizona on a waiver claim.

No trade - just clearing a roster spot for Cuddyer.

by dwintheiser on Aug 3, 2007 6:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Um, wow

This is amazing. We managed to find a way to keep Luis Rodriguez on the roster. But hey, at least we saved some more money! We aren't giving up at all!

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 3, 2007 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

made a comment on his blog that said,
"I can't get into this right now, but there's more to this one, folks."
It's enough to make you wonder whether there's more to it, but I have no idea what it could be.

by Waldo on Aug 3, 2007 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Never Mind

He says he ran with bad info.

by Waldo on Aug 3, 2007 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rodriguez v Cirillo

Cirillo had no role and not future role with the Twins. Rodriguez just turned 27. Yeh, Cirillo cost more. But this move makes sense.

by TT on Aug 3, 2007 7:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Rodriguez

Is totally worthless to this team with Punto on the roster and not playing everyday at a position.

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 3, 2007 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think...

they're both worthless at this point. I'm still hoping someone (even Tolbert) replaces LRod.

by djskilbr on Aug 3, 2007 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cirillo was hitting...

.293/.348/.466 against lefties. That's what he was brought here to do, right?

As far as I can tell, Luis Rodriguez still has options left. If the Twins really think that Rodriguez fits into their long-term plans, they could have kept him around by optioning him to Rochester and then he'd be back up again when rosters expand in September.

I don't think the Twins had a great chance to make the playoffs, but this hurts their chances of making the playoffs, and for what? $500K? Unless TR has something up his sleeve to replace Cirillo, I'm not a fan of this move.

by ubelmann on Aug 3, 2007 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I have that thought too ubelmann...

but:

I do think there is more to this (another bat to replace on the roster that is). Guess we'll see.
Gardy wasn't giving him the ab's he deserved anyway.
Maybe he's more hurt than we know. Heck, he hasn't been able to play the field at ALL in how long now?

by djskilbr on Aug 3, 2007 8:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check your facts...

Maybe he's more hurt than we know. Heck, he hasn't been able to play the field at ALL in how long now?

He played 3B on the 31st and on the 29th. 23 of his appearances were in the field.

I do think there is more to this (another bat to replace on the roster that is). Guess we'll see.

Don't hold your breath.

by ubelmann on Aug 4, 2007 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ugh

For a team whose biggest problem is they can't hit lefties, GIVING away the only third baseman they have who can hit lefties is a slap in the face to the fans. Especially when his replacements are not even major leaguers or hit .209 (or both?).

I wasn't mad about the Castillo trade. But I'm mad about this! And to save a measly $500K???

And now I assume we'll learn he wasn't a good clubhouse presence. Right. Well even if it's true, I don't care. They're supposed to be trying to win games, not brownie points for butt kissing.

Hunter, Nathan, and Santana were the ones who mouthed off. So they fire the old, injured guy? That's showin' 'em.

Can we take the stadium back? Oh that's right, we were never allowed to vote for it in the first place.

by by jiminy on Aug 3, 2007 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah...

I wasn't mad about the Castillo trade. But I'm mad about this! And to save a measly $500K???

Yeah, the Castillo trade makes some sense. The Twins saved a legitimate amount of money with that trade, and Casilla is a reasonable Castillo facsimile right now. I don't think Casilla is an upgrade necessarily, but it makes sense to get the kid some time.

Getting rid of Cirillo only clears up space for inferior players who shouldn't have a significant role in the Twins' future.

And if we're getting rid of players who have injury problems, what about Rondell White??? How on earth is he still on the roster if "answering the bell" is such an important quality in a player?

by ubelmann on Aug 4, 2007 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Comparisons

Fans often settle on a belief, then set out to find a singluar concept that supports their belief.

Just as with the Hall of Fame -- where you just can't say, "If X is in, Y should be in" you can't invoke White when discussing Cirillo.

Cirillo was of little use to this team, and being jumping to conclusions is common on this board it's my jump that there were many times Gardenhire wanted Cirillo in the lineup this year and Cirillo could not answer the bell, yet he was occupying a spot on the roster.

To be fair, at least White was on the DL. As both a manager and a GM, you prefer an injured guy on the DL to one who is on the bench saying he can't go.

On top of that, it's not like the Twins were playing .580 ball with Cirillo and .400 without him.

"Man, the past is a long and twisty road." -- Satchel Paige.

by Firpo Marberry on Aug 4, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Comparisons

Fans often settle on a belief, then set out to find a singluar concept that supports their belief.

Just as with the Hall of Fame -- where you just can't say, "If X is in, Y should be in" you can't invoke White when discussing Cirillo.

To be fair, at least White was on the DL. As both a manager and a GM, you prefer an injured guy on the DL to one who is on the bench saying he can't go.

On top of that, it's not like the Twins were playing .580 ball with Cirillo and .400 without him.

"Man, the past is a long and twisty road." -- Satchel Paige.

by Firpo Marberry on Aug 4, 2007 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

When Cirillo left...

...he'd started in roughly 40 games and the Twins had faced roughly 30 left-handed starters. He was arguably being used more often than he should have been used in the first place.

Cirillo appeared in 50 of the Twins' first 107 or so games. He was available enough to be worth $500K to this team.

you can't invoke White when discussing Cirillo

Watch me.

White gave the team no value when he was on the DL, and has been below replacement level so far since he's been off the DL. Cirillo has been more valuable than Rondell this year, and would probably have had even more value to this team if he'd only been used against left-handed pitching.

Meanwhile, Rondell is getting paid a lot more than Cirillo. If I had to dump one of those guys, I'd dump Rondell in a heartbeat.

On top of that, it's not like the Twins were playing .580 ball with Cirillo and .400 without him.

Cirillo filled a role on this team--hitting lefties--that is now unfilled. Losing him makes the team worse. The $500K isn't going to help us win any games this year, but Cirillo could have.

by ubelmann on Aug 4, 2007 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm getting over it

A day later I'm not quite so mad. Two thirds of the way through the season, Cirillo is 17 for 58 against lefties. So if his health remained as it was, he'd get maybe 29 at bats and 8 hits. Even hitting .209 would get six. Not a make or break deal. Cirillo only hits .242 against righties, which is still better than Punto but not much, so maybe a couple more hits there. But they're all singles. Maybe four singles isn't worth a half a million and a chance to audition Buscher (who might hit over .261 meaning there's no lost hits after all).

We're always complaining they don't go with young guys and see what they've got. I guess that's what they're doing -- work out the kinks now so they'll be ready next year.

That makes more sense at second than third though. More at bats for Punto isn't developing a young player, it's just watching a veteran hit .209. Maybe they want to see if Buscher has anything, but if he doesn't, it's back to Punto and L-Rod. Ugh.

I'm still against this: it's grotesque to throw in the towel for a half million when you just got handed half a billion in subsidies, especially if you're still in the race. But who knows, maybe Buscher will be better than Cirillo and we'll all be toasting Ryan in October.

by by jiminy on Aug 4, 2007 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And actually...

we more than likely saved about 800K because of his likely bonuses for ab's. I think it's very possible, being at 153 ab's now, and being hurt for a good part of the 1st half, that he would have cleared 300 ab's. If that's the case, then TR actually saved $800K. So for what it's worth, between Castillo and Cirillo, TR has actually saved what is approaching $3 M now. Still hoping we are able to somehow cut Ortiz' remaining salary too. $4 M total is nothing to sneeze at.

by djskilbr on Aug 4, 2007 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Saving money

That's great and all, but we aren't using it on any new players, and 3 million won't make or break the re-signing of Hunter, Santana, or any other key player. So, it will either go to next year's payroll (ideally in addition to the normal increase in order to actually sign a decent FA) or into Carl's pockets. Since there's no way of us knowing how much the payroll increase would have been in the first place, I have a feeling it will mostly go back into the vault.

Replace Nick Punto.

by rayken on Aug 5, 2007 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

whaddya know...

whoops, I'm mad again! Lil' Rod coming to bat with two men on and hitting into a double play, that makes me go grrrrr. Ya hates to be giving away players when you're that close to the lead. But hey, his two hits raised his average from .190 to .204. At that rate, he'll be up around .400 in no time.

by by jiminy on Aug 9, 2007 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Getting Rid of RonDL

Getting rid of RonDL to save money requires somebody to actually CLAIM him off waivers. Same goes for Ortiz.

Unlike Cirillo, I'm not sure anybody would think it's even worth it. I bet both Ortiz and White are sitting out on waivers now with no takers.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Aug 5, 2007 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly...

well said.

by djskilbr on Aug 5, 2007 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

bat

I thought Cirillo is a solid bat off the bench considering only 3 people on the team can hit. If the management is going to give up on the season should we bother going to games? My cousin is gettin married in Sept and I get to go to Minnesota. I've been planning on catching a game or 2 and gettin a group to go, but I don't want to go on a skimped out team.

I realize that these moves can be absorbed somewhat but my view is that they are getting rid of solid role players and keeping the crap during a pennant drive to save a few bucks. If they don't get something good soon, WTF Over.

by doofus04 on Aug 3, 2007 7:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

bat

P.S. I hope enough fans quit going to the games to negate their savings if they don't do anything.

by doofus04 on Aug 3, 2007 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Was it just something I inferred...

or something I heard? But I think Cirillo was not well-liked in the clubhouse. I thought I had heard he was aloof and made no attempt to connect with the team. He always seemed a little surly to me, but I could imagine that would be part of it.

I was glad to have him here, but I won't miss him.

by Neil on Aug 3, 2007 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

These Moves

Many veterans such as Cirillo really appreciate these moves. Arizona wanted to add him, and he gets to go to a contending club for a little while. He isn't stuck there for too long, but just long enough to try to help them win big.

So this could be a show of good will to future free agents.

Also, if he WASN'T well liked in the clubhouse, perhaps it was, I dunno, a way of appeasing that whole Castillo situation.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Aug 4, 2007 2:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Sadly......

If positions were reversed and Cirillo was put on waivers by anotehr team, I would consider adding him to my Minnesota roster and sned-off one of any other fodder guys...Ford, Rodriguez, or especially White.

Of course, I don't know ALL the stories about Cirillo...but I would rather have him coming off the bench as a pinch-hitter than four other guys currently available on the bench.

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Aug 4, 2007 5:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Cirillo and Castillo

Cirillo had the 6th highest OPS on the team while Castillo had the 7th. For a team hurting for offense shouldn't you be trying to get rid of players who are dragging the team down more? I'd feel better about the move if we got a replacement even Sosa who can hit lefties, is slumping, and can be had for nothing. I understand Castillo trade is almost a latteral move as the orginization is hurting for C depth in the minors and Casilla is a clone of Castillo but a 2 million in savings doesn't mean anything to me without a set budget in front of me and an addition of another player to use that 2 million that improves us. otherwise we have a slight downgrade at 2nd base as Casilla will not hit as well and will make more mistakes in the field, and nothing as far as the major league team is concerned and now we lose someone who should be DH or 3B against LH starting pitching, for nothing literally nothing....

If money is that big of an issue why sign Ponson and Ortiz anyway = 4.1 million? Ford 985k? I'm sure there's more if I think about it.

I know that thses 2 loses weren't that much to the team but why not wait until the end of the year if we are not going to aquire anything? Casilla was still comming up in September and Buscher is LH so Cirillo is still useful.

by doofus04 on Aug 5, 2007 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

In the Castillo trade...

anyone else notice that Dustin Martin already has 3 jacks for FM? Could be a gem of value in that trade.

I always trust TR in getting minor league value from guys. I don't believe in Butera, especially with Morales as good as he is, but this is encouraging from Martin.

I will forever reserve judgment on minor leaguers received by TR after the fact that we have what figures to be a well above average starting MI for a few years (Bartlett and Casilla) for the likes of Brian Buchanon and JC Romero.

by djskilbr on Aug 6, 2007 3:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs