Neshek to have Tommy John surgery

by halfchest on Nov 11, 2008 2:51 PM EST Comment 23 comments

According to Sethspeaks it sounds like Neshek is out for 2009 after electing to have Tommy John surgery. After yesterdays announcement of a setback I think we all saw this coming to some degree.

So now where is our bullpen for 2009?

Nathan
Crain
Guerrier
Breslow
Mijares
Bonser
Humber

That's who as of today I could see being in there barring any trades or signings. I don't know what to think of this group. To be honest maybe I overvalue these guys but I still don't think this group will do half bad if managed correctly. I think Crain will do better after having another year back. Breslow was solid and Mijares sure performed well in the short time he was up. I'd be more than ok with the Twins picking up a late inning guy but who? I wouldnt want us to spend a lot of money or give up great prospects for bullpen help. Could Delaney or Slama make a big jump and help us out next year? Or possibly someone like Swarzak or Duensing, maybe Mulvey?

This is a very random posting that is just throwing ideas out there to get some conversation started. I was a bit nervous to count on Neshek to be himself next year anyhow but I am confident that the guys we have can rebound and do better next year. The biggest question is whether it will be good enough. what do you guys think?

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What Boggles My Mind

Is why didn’t Neshek Just have the Surgery after he got injured?

by Tony_O on Nov 11, 2008 4:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Oh, balls

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Nov 11, 2008 4:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

First of all...

…I want to offer my condolences to the Neshek family, especially Pat. You deserve better buddy!

Then, I want to say: WTF Twins medical staff?

Then I’ll be ready to consider alternatives.

OK, I’m ready. I think they have to try to acquire a guy like JJ Putz, Huston Street or Juan Cruz. It makes no sense to just let it ride and expect better results. I’m particuarly wary of Matt Guerrier.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 11, 2008 4:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Twins dropped the ball on this one.

by hitormiss1414 on Nov 11, 2008 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Saying that the Twins and Neshek should have opted for surgery immediately is misguided. Neshek had a partial tear and there was a chance that surgery would never be needed. There is always a question whether a player can comeback from a major surgery.
Unfortunately the rehab didn’t work and surgery is now needed. The only thing the Twins and Neshek lost by trying the rehab was six months of competition. Deciding on immediate surgery because the Twins need bullpen help would have been pretty shortsighted.

by dklien on Nov 11, 2008 4:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Minority opinon

A lot of guys get new ligaments with any fraying of the ligament, let alone an “acute partial tear.” The Twins’ course of action is unusual to say the least. And some of us are reacting to the pattern here. Four of the last five major injuries sustained have resulted in prolonged recover:

Mauer’s knee—they had him rehab and try to come back on it, whereupon he hurt it worse and needed surgery after all, two months later than need be.
Stewart’s foot—only after he left the organization did he get it surgically repaired. He didn’t help much after the injury. But after he left, he was a useful player for a couple of teams.
Liriano’s elbow—He injured it in August, tried rehab, come back and re injured it requiring surgery. But they delayed surgery ’till November because they still wanted to exhaust every other option.

Six months of play is significant. Even one month of Neshek next year is better than no months of Neshek. And, again, most other teams would have just ordered surgery and moved on to rehab in May.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 11, 2008 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask Pat

what kind of advice and steerage he got from the Twins around potential surgery. It is his decision, isn’t it?

If I were a player, and I am getting paid, I am not going to rush into surgery—a surgery which, let’s face it, can be career ending.

Who knows how that ligament is going to hold up with the way that Neshy buggy-whips that ball up there. Prudence is called for. Moreover, as much as we imagine Pat would be able to pitch next year had he gotten surgery immediately, I really doubt he would have been a factor in any case.

by Old Twins Cap on Nov 11, 2008 6:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Devil's advocate

Yes, it was Pat’s decision. And he did seek a second opinion, which did not agree with the Twins’ medical staff. He nonetheless went with the Twins’ medical staff opinion, which is the most anti-surgery crowd in all of baseball. If he had been with just about any other team, his second opinion—having surgery—would have agreed with his first opinion, and he would have had surgery.

Now consider his position: His own team is telling him not to have surgery. Does he go against his team, as Liriano did, and try to demand surgery? If he does, he risks becoming unpopular in the organization. Recall that Liriano’s position led to some rumors of Liriano being a problem child. On the other hand, he can agree with the Twins and hope for the best. If he does that, he’s a model citizen of the team.

I ask you, given the Twin’s history, does he really have a choice in the matter?

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 11, 2008 6:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Wanted to mention this:

One important point: When Neshek was first injured in May, he received a second opinion from Dr. James Andrews, who agreed with the Twins recommendation to rehab the injury, instead of having surgery.

"I don’t think the plan was wrong," Smith said. "He reinjured it the other day, and now it’s a complete tear, and that changes the diagnosis completely."

by Twins Territory on Nov 11, 2008 8:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes I just read that

I stand corrected. When James Andrews agrees with the Twins, there really is no other choice.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 11, 2008 8:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

It would be nice to think surgery would have been better, but Andrews knows best. And, I see that the rehab for this injury has an 80% succes rate. Guess Neshek got the bad 20% part of it.

by Twins Territory on Nov 11, 2008 9:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

First off, SHIT!

Now, I’d really like to see if Street/Atkins for Cuddyer and someone could be done.

by Twins Territory on Nov 11, 2008 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Street Wont Come Anymore

He’s Going to Colorado….

Heres a Name who could be a gap fixer untill Neshek Comes back……….Trevor Hoffman could be had for 6-7 Million

by Tony_O on Nov 11, 2008 7:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

There is talk...

…that the Rockies might look to trade Street. From CBSSportsline.com:

The Rockies will receive outfielder Carlos Gonzalez, left-handed pitcher Greg Smith and closer Huston Street in return, though they may not keep Street. One source said Monday that the Rockies are prepared to turn around and trade him — though to which team he wasn’t sure.

by Twins Territory on Nov 11, 2008 8:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd be shocked if they DON'T deal Street....

Corpas is just fine.

Still, I like Street a lot, but I have concerns about his health too. And he is getting expensive. Likely to cost $6 M or so this season and probably close to $10M next through arbitration.

by DJSkillz on Nov 12, 2008 11:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

The top set-up guys get upwards of $3 million through arbitration. If we acquired him and used him as an eighth-inning guy, he wouldn’t be that much more expensive than Matt Guerrier but he’d be WAY more effective.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 12, 2008 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Like I said...

I like Street, but I do question his health. He didn’t seem right last year at all. Will that carry over? We just don’t know.

I’d be fine adding him, but I just hope the cost isn’t too great. I’m wary of short-term expensive bullpen options in general.

by DJSkillz on Nov 12, 2008 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Cost

I worry about the cost in acquiring him more than the cost of paying his salary. According to Joe C., lots of teams are looking at him to be their closer. The rockies hope to get closer level talent in return, which is out of the Twins price range. If he’s a throw-in with Barnes and Atkins, for Cuddyer and a couple of arms, fine. But the Rockies don’t see him as a throw-in, so he’s probably not coming here.

That said, I don’t like our bullpen the way it is, even if you assume help is on the way in the form of Slama and Delaney. Neither of those guys was in AAA last year, so I doubt they’re quite ready yet. And the Twins do need to upgrade their eighth-inning guy.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 12, 2008 2:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

It looks like they are going to ask a king’s ransom for him, and the Twins don’t deal that way. I don’t see Street coming to Minnesota as much as I hope he does. We do need someone outside of the organization though. Then the final spot can go to someone like Lahey, Bonser or Humber.

by Twins Territory on Nov 12, 2008 4:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Podcast

Pat Neshek called into my podcast last night and spent about 15 minutes talking about the injury and what’s going on. It’s obviously a tough time for him and his family, so I wish him nothing but the best. If you’re interested, please check it out at:

www.BlogTalkRadio.com/SethSpeaks.

by SethSpeaks on Nov 11, 2008 11:52 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I would like to see a few changes in the bullpen.

Nathan
Crain
Guerrier
Breslow
Mijares
Bonser
Humber

I think we should bundle Guerrier and Bonser in a some sort of a trade package. Then bring up Slama, Delaney, or both and go with that. Maybe put Swarzak or Mulvey in for Humber. I still think this group will regroup from last season on be as dependable as most bullpens.

by Beerbear on Nov 12, 2008 11:47 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Korecky

We may be forgetting about him. He’s not a stopper type, but he’s still in the equation too. Certainly ahead of Lahey.

by SethSpeaks on Nov 12, 2008 5:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bullpen vs infield

I’m not saying I’m confident in our bullpen, but if we are putting resources toward RP, 3B and SS, I think we can make a greater improvement to the team by upgrading the infield than by upgrading the bullpen.

I would rather give Bonser, Humber, Swarzak, Delaney, Slama, Lahey, etc chances in the bullpen, and spend all of our resources (in trade and salary) on 3B and SS.

by snolls on Nov 12, 2008 5:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs