Furcal to the Braves?
Ken Rosenthal reports that Raphael Furcal has chosen the Braves, which means either Escobar or Johnson will be available. I would be in favor of a Young for Escobar trade, even if it cost us a pitching prospect as well. That would make Punto the utility player again and fill a hole in the organization.
11 months ago
cmathewson
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Agreed....
I’d do it in a second.
I love Escobar, and I’d do anything to get Punto out of this damn starting lineup.
by DJSkillz on Dec 16, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a great deal
I was under the impression that Escobar was bait to get Jake Peavy . . . or maybe Furcal is now too? I doubt they’d flip him and the younger cheaper Escobar is a better fit for the Padres. But Peavy to the Cubs is likely dead, rumors are that he’s probably not moving at all, but is there much saying that the Braves are looking to add Delmon Young?
The Braves have been linked to Nate McLouth and Jermaine Dye, so I guess they might want to roll the dice for Delmon…
based on the following, maybe I’m wrong about Escobar as a centerpiece for Peavy:
from MLB Trade Rumors:
“the Padres and Braves were discussing a 4-for-1 Jake Peavy deal in November. Yunel Escobar and Gorkys Hernadez were agreed upon. The conflict came as the Padres wanted Charlie Morton over Jo-Jo Reyes as well as Jeff Locke or Tyler Flowers over Blaine Boyer. To me that gap looks pretty sizeable, so maybe the trade was never close.”
Bottom line, it does sound like a good deal.
by ONeal on Dec 16, 2008 11:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Peavy
I’ve heard different rumors. The last I heard, the Braves declared any Peavy deal dead. Apparently, the Padres are asking for the world. That might have changed now that Burnett went to the Yankees. The Braves have said they need a starting pitcher and an outfielder. They could still sign Derek Lowe and trade Escobar for Young and be done. That would allow them to save face on their statements that they will are done with the Peavy deal.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2008 11:48 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Escobar
looks like a good OBP guy—although that’s just as much due to being a good contact hitter as it is taking walks. He was much better at the free pass in ’08, though. I can see him being a .290/.370/.420 guy this year.
by Jesse on Dec 16, 2008 11:32 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Great move by Atlanta
Getting Furcal gives them all kinds of flexibility. They could revisit Peavy trade talks using Escobar, trade Kelly Johnson somewhere (Cubs?), go after Delmon, etc. Right now, their stand pat position is pretty darn good. Kelly Johnson moves to LF, Furcal plays 2B. Improves their defense by 10+ runs I bet.
From Atlanta’s perspective, trading Escobar for Young doesn’t make much sense, given the defensive hit of moving Johnson back to 2B. Now that Atlanta’s lost out on AJ Burnett, they’re probably a bit desperate for a #1 starter. I think they’ll go after Peavy again.
I’d love to see us get Escobar, move Tolbert or Harris and put Punto on the bench. While this is highly unlikely, I’d still check on Atlanta’s interest in Young or our young pitchers. Would Cuddyer-Perkins get it done? If Atlanta insists on Slowey, what would it take in addition to Escobar? I don’t think Atlanta has enough to snag Slowey.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 16, 2008 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I would not trade Slowey
I think he will only get better. And he’s pretty good already. But there’s real risk that Perkins will fall victim to the year-after-big-innings-increase hangover. I think he’ll be good long term, but I’m worried about 2009.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2008 12:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would, but only for the right price.
Escobar is not enough. Neither is Hardy. If Atlanta had a stud bullpen arm or wanted to includeTommy Hanson, I’d consider it. But they’re not including Hanson for Peavy (yet), don’t see why they’d do it for Slowey.
Agree on Perkins. I’m concerned about 2009 as well. Fortunately we have options if he falters.
Cuddyer – Bonser – Harris/Tolbert could make a lot of sense for both sides if Atlanta fails to get Peavy.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 16, 2008 12:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
keep the top 3
It would be foolish for this organization to trade any of our top 3 starters. Those 3 are the key for success for this organization for years to come if they stay healthy. I just don’t think that they can be replaced. 4 or 5 I could live with since we’ve got some depth there.
by Dale on Dec 16, 2008 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think they have enough of what we want for Slowey, either.
And they already have a couple of nice pitching prospects on the horizon.
I’d consider trading Perk or Blackburn in the right deal, but only those two and only under ideal circumstances.
by Jesse on Dec 16, 2008 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Would you trade either Blackburn or Perkins
straight up for Escobar? Perkins, definitely, I’d prefer him to trading Young. I like Blackburn and Perkins as 4-5 starters, but the top levels of our organization are filled with guys who look like 4-5 starters down the road. Value-wise, it may make more sense to trade one of our current starters and let someone step up than to trade a couple of our AAA guys for much less in return. Competition can be a wonderful thing. I’d be fine with trading Perkins and letting Bonser, Humber, Mulvey, Swarzak, Duensing compete for the #5 spot.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 16, 2008 12:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Yes, and Yes
Getting a starting caiber shortstop who is an above average hitter and still hasn’t reached arbitration for a 4th-5th starter with limited upside? Um, sign me up.
I assume the Braves wouldn’t do it; I certainly wouldn’t trade Escobar straight up for either of those guys. More would have to be involved.
If they could trade for Escobar and still sign Wigginton, I would be reasonably satisfied; of course they won’t do that, since they promised Punto the starting shortstop gig, and are paying him like a starter too. (Remember when they had chances to get a better thridbaseman, but Ryan had promised Batista first shot at the job)?
Frankly, I’m quite frustrated at the moment, and don’t really expect them to do anything.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 16, 2008 12:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cuddyer-Perkins
is really not that attractive of a package. I would ship them off for Escobar in a heartbeat.
I would do Young-Perkins. Anything more, and I’d have to think long and hard about it.
As for Slowey, no player is untouchable but I’m not sure what we could get from them that would make it worth trading him.
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on Dec 16, 2008 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like Atlanta doesn't want to trade Escobar.
This is from MLB.com. Mark Bowman thinks the Braves would use Furcal at second base, which means Escobar wouldn’t be usurped.
by Jesse on Dec 16, 2008 2:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Makes sense
If they can move Johnson to left or package him for an outfielder, they would have an excellent up-the-middle defense. Oh well, Punto denial was good while it lasted.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 16, 2008 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I find it interesting that the Braves found moving Johnson to LF more attractive than the other OF they were considering. I’m inclined to agree with them, signing Furcal means they don’t give anything up in trade. There are plenty of OF on the FA market, I’m a little surprised they’re not considering Dunn, Abreu, Burrell, etc.
Plus, keeping Johnson and Escobar gives them insurance in case Furcal’s back flares up again.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 16, 2008 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How bad is Johnson defensively?
If he’s a poor defender then I think it’s a very smart move. To have Furcal and Escobar up the middle makes their defense very good. However I wasn’t of the impression that Johnson was that bad. In that case, it would make more sense for them to have gone after even Ibanez for 3/32.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Dec 16, 2008 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's well below average
something like -20 runs a year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 17, 2008 8:08 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then it would be a good move to sign Furcal
and move Johnson to LF. Doesn’t look like either is going to happen now though.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Dec 17, 2008 2:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they’d want Punto in the trade?
If they traded escobar they’d be left with an injury prone ss and a terrible definsive 2b. I would think that having punto as a backup at these positions would be very valuable, and we have plenty of backup middle infielders. It would be a good supplement to blackburn or perkins I would think.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 16, 2008 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't think this idea is dead
According to Peter Gammons, Furcal is having second thoughts because he does not want to move to second. He may go back to the Dogers if the Braves do not move Escobar. Considering the pressure on the Braves to move Escobar, they might just decide to trade him for an outfielder and an arm to make room for Furcal.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Dec 17, 2008 8:20 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Now yahoo.com says
He’s Close to signing a deal with the dodgers due to the braves not willing to trade Escobar.
by Tony_O on Dec 17, 2008 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
If I’m the Braves, I’d also see if Escobar can play 2B. Yes, he’s a great defensive SS, better than Furcal, but Escobar would have to be a significant upgrade over Johnson. If it’s a deal breaker, I’d rather move Escobar to 2B than lose out on Furcal. However, I don’t think hesitation to move to 2B is the entire reason behind Furcal giving the Dodgers another shot.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 17, 2008 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's signed with the Dodgers now
It appears that they had a “gentlemen’s agreement” but Furcal’s agent used that to get LA to agree to a third year.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 17, 2008 7:04 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Stay classy
Not a real classy move. Smart move by LA, they could have been in real trouble losing Furcal.
Who’s going to be stuck with Orlando Cabrera…?
by Adam Peterson on Dec 17, 2008 7:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
3 years-33 million
you are telling me that the Twins couldn’t have beaten that? Especially since doing so would have saved them 8.5 on Punto? Really?
This on the day Rob Antony gets on the radio and says with a straight face that Punto was the best option at shortstop
I hate this team some days.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 17, 2008 8:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Considering that Oakland offered 4/40...
I suspect it was more a matter of where Furcal wanted to go. From day one, he wanted to go to either Atlanta or LA. Preference must have been LA, hence his giving them the last chance.
Bottom line, I don’t think we had a chance even if we offered 4 years and $40M.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 17, 2008 9:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
It’s only 3 years/$30 million, from the reports on SI.com and ESPN.com. However, that is just the guaranteed money – according to the articles, there are annual million-dollar bonuses if he stays healthy plus a $12 million team option that vests if he get 600 plate appearances in the third year of the contract, all of which would make it as much as 4 years/$45 million.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Dec 18, 2008 9:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Schuerholz is not happy
Atlanta will never deal with Arn Tellem’s agency or its players again. Sounds like Atlanta sent a term sheet and then Furcal and his agent took it to the Dodgers.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 19, 2008 7:44 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
..and said the franchise would no longer entertain signing players represented by them — ever.
Or at least until:
1) The firm represents someone they really want.
2) The firm represents one of their own players who is due to re-sign.
3) The MLBPA gets involved.
by Johnny Safron on Dec 19, 2008 11:49 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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