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Twins interested in Josh Fogg

The Denver Post is reporting that the Twins have had contact with Fogg's agent. No offer has been made but that an offer could be made as early as today if Santana's extension with the Mets is worked out.

As many have expected, the Twins will try to pick up a veteran pitcher if Santana's extension with the Mets is worked out. It is pretty slim pickings with the veterans that are remaining especially when you consider that Fogg made over 3 million last year.

http://www.denverpost.com/rockies/ci_8134482

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Ick!!
Doesn't strike anyone out.
Gives up a lot of hits.
Walks too many considering.
And yes, he has made his starts, but he hasn't thrown a huge number of innings, so will he get deeper into games than the young guys?

by SethSpeaks on Feb 1, 2008 10:32 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

No way
I'd take a chance on Bartolo Colon before I'd pick up Fogg.

Between Liriano/Baker/Bonser/Slowey/Perkins/Blackburn/Mulvey/Humber I think we can get better production than Josh Fogg.

How much do we really need an inning eater?

by Adam Peterson on Feb 1, 2008 10:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Minor-league deal
I wouldn't want a repeat of Ortiz. Then again, give Gardy a veteran with an MFA deal and he'll find a way to keep him for a month, a la Sidney Ponson.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 1, 2008 11:08 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well let's see
Fogg's outstanding quality is that he goes out there every time it's his turn.  He's made at least 26 starts every year for the past 6.  (actually, that's fairly unusual, I bet.  I doubt there are too many current pitchers with active streaks of 25+ starts for that many seasons).  

He's not particularly good; in fact he's fairly bad.  But he's remarkably consistent.  He pitches 170 innings, gives up 25 homers, walks 60 guys and K's 90 basically every single year.  The fluctuations in his ERA+ are fairly small, but seem to be explained by slight fluctuations in HRs and then his hit luck.  

Here's the question: Whose job does he take to start the year?  If Fogg is signed, my guess is we'll be looking at (in no particular order):

Baker
Fogg
Liriano
Bonser
Slowey

Leaving Blackburn, Humber, Perkins out.  (Mulvey and Duensing too, but I doubt they are really in the plans regardless of Fogg for April). Frankly, that's OK with me--the opportunities will be there at some point.  The one I would regret is Perkins--at some point I'd like to see him get a clean start in the rotation.  

It seems a bit redundant to sign the guy, but I don't think it unfairly holds anyone back.  

by Eric in Madison on Feb 1, 2008 11:10 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You never have enough pitching
And now that the price of mediocre pitching (a la Silva) has skyrocketed, and the Twins are sitting on cash, this is a no-brainer.

Remember: the Twins typically need somewhere between 10 and 12 different starters throughout the season.

Fill the stable and let's see who wants to gallop.

by Old Twins Cap on Feb 1, 2008 11:44 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Who wants to gallop?
That's exactly what I'd like to find out.  The thing is, we know exactly what kinda of "gallop" we'll get from Fogg.  It's actually more of an "uninspiring trot," reliable though it may be.  And it will cost more than five times as much as the alternative which is likely to perform not much worse and possibly better.

I do agree that you can never have enough pitching.  For example, we've got Liriano/Baker/Bonser/Slowey/Perkins/Blackburn/Mulvey/Humber/Duensing ...

On second thought, I change my mind.  In our case, we're an exception.  We have enough.

And let's see who wants to gallop.  It's a no-brainer.

by adam on Feb 1, 2008 12:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'm not against it.
As a number 5 starter, he's pretty reliably mediocre.  With that much young pitching, you're really looking at exhausting the bullpen should more than one of them struggle throughout their first few months, particularly with Liriano probably either skipping starts, or being on low pitch counts as what we can expect is around 120 inning.  So unless Slowey, Baker, AND Bonser come ALL out throwing consistent 7 inning quality starts, I think this bullpen is in trouble.  

I've been extremely worried about this bullpen and I'm worried that Bill Smith hasn't reinforced it all this winter.  Nathan didn't have an effective slider in 07, Neshek isn't stretched out yet to safely make 75-80 appearances, Crain is coming off surgery, and Guerrier struggled when he was asked to step up in higher pressure situations.  The other two are Rincon and Reyes.  This team is really going to miss Carlos Silva's innings and signing someone like Fogg makes perfect sense to me.  

Also Fogg has pitched in the bandboxes of Coors Field and PNC.  So there's some statistical adjustment needed for his ERA and HR/9.  

by TheMattWilke on Feb 1, 2008 1:56 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Price is right
Well, if it is an eatable contract....I say go for it.

The Twins have two starters who might hit 200 innings...Boof and Baker...might!

They have Slowey and Humber, both who could hit 160-180.

Liriano and Perkins would both probably till in the 150 range.

They need someone to make 5-10 starts (Fogg) and a couple of guys to make a half-dozen starts sometime during the season (Duensing, Day, Blackburn.

Next year, hopefully, the Twins will have five young starters capable of hitting 200 innings each, with a couple of prospects in the wings.

So, if they get a guy to start the season while someone gets their work in at AAA (Liriano, Perkins, Slowey) and maybe pitches decently, they can swap him out (a la Ortiz) for another prospect.

Again, it all depends on the cost.

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Feb 1, 2008 2:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Blackburn
All said and done the guy threw 190 innings last year.  Just something to think about.
P.S. if Kelly Theiser reports again that a pitcher had a bad start because he didn't keep the ball down, I might have to kill myself.

by caseintheface on Feb 1, 2008 6:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Blackburn>>Fogg
If Fogg ends up with a rotation spot out of spring training in place of Blackburn, I will be POed.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 1, 2008 8:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ortiz
Remember was our "ace" in April last year.  I'm not saying we should sign another guy like him because for everything good he did in April he made up for it by sucking in May and beyond.  Still though here's his April numbers.

3-1 2.57ERA 35 IP over 5 starts

insane.

His May starts?

0-3 10.97 ERA 21.1 IP over 5 starts

by halfchest on Feb 1, 2008 4:32 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Haha
"It's actually more of an "uninspiring trot,""

Haha, well said.

I'd be agsint this deal.  He doesn't proved any extra value over the youngsters and just takes chances away from the young guys.  if we're rebuilding our staff this year anyway, I'd like too see what SLowey, Bonser, and Baker can do when they are considered the leading guys.  I'd like too see Blackburn, Humber, and Perkins given shots to stick around.  If Liriano needs a rest start, you could always keep Perkins in the bullpen and have him spot start.  That would be ideal I suppose.  Why waste time on a guy who puts up 5.00 ERA's in the national league?

We have plenty of young horses, let THEM see who can gallop.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Feb 1, 2008 5:02 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just say no to Fogg...
He's a 6 ERA waiting to happen in the AL.  Give me the kids.

by djskilbr on Feb 1, 2008 7:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If
If the twins can sign him to a 3 million contract and have say a 600,000 buyout it would be ok with me.....as long as he didn't make it out of spring training.  It would be a decent insurance policy.

by joeywyen on Feb 1, 2008 8:06 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Where does he go?
Right now, with the Mets trade about to be completed, the Twins will be at a full 40-man (Mulvey and Guerra don't need to be protected). Who do they drop? Or do they give him an invite with a guarantee if he makes the roster....which is soemthing I would rather see than a play and pay.
check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Feb 1, 2008 8:31 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

No Price Would Be Low Enough for Fogg
I'm going to jump on the don't sign him bandwagon.

Here are the strongest arguments I can come up with FOR signing him:

  1. He's cheap
  2. He's consistent and MAY perform better than some of our youngsters
  3. He reliable, and will be able to put up a lot of innings in a rotation that may not.
Counter arguments:
  1. He's not that cheap, compared to the alternative serfs
  2. If he is performing better than our youngsters, this will be a terrible baseball team and we might as well just give the young guys the experience to get better. (This is the argument that if we need a couple extra wins from him, we don't need a couple extra wins).
  3. We will have no problem coming up with 1,500 innings. We have no less than 10 pitchers in who either qualify to start in the bigs, or are knocking on the door. (Baker, Blackburn, Bonser, Duensing, Guerrier, Humber, Liriano, Mulvey, Perkins, Slowey). As long as we carry 12 pitchers, and assume that some will get sent down / called up over the course of the season, we can easily put them in for 5 innings at a time.
If we compete for the playoffs this year, it won't be based on Fogg. If we don't, then 190 innings of experience lost to Fogg hurts us next year.

Strongest Argument Against: We only have so much space at AAA and AA for all the pitchers that need innings. Fogg forces us to find space for another.

by snolls on Feb 2, 2008 12:39 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+1
This is the year to give the kids opportunities to develop at the big league level. Fogg would cloud that picture.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 2, 2008 1:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't have said it better
unfortunatley, it would only be too predictable if signing Fogg (or someone similar) is exactly what this team ends up doing

by adam on Feb 2, 2008 6:01 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody kill me
Couldn't we pry Sidney Ponson away from the all-you-can-eat buffet and give him another contract.
At least the Twins could save a little cash by not having to buy a new uniform for Josh Fogg.

by JBrown2818 on Feb 5, 2008 1:23 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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