Keeping the Ball down?

by WITwinsfan on Feb 29, 2008 11:41 AM EST Comment 8 comments

We hear this same phrase mentioned in regards to various pitchers each year. Scott Baker has historically been the scapegoat for the "Keeping the ball down" adage. Yesterday the phrase was mentioned in writings by Phil Miller, Joe C, and the Twins MLB site. Both Perkins and Barrett were ineffective yesterday and gave up runs. I have always wondered what is behind the phrase. When Gardy says a pitcher needs to keep the ball down. Is it that the pitcher is pitching high in the zone? Is it a referring to a pitcher that is giving up hits that are in the air, as both Perkins and Barrett did yesterday. Or is it a general term for when a pitcher just doesn't pitch well for a variety of reasons. This "keeping the ball up" trend also seems to only be used for young or rookie pitchers. Former staff aces who gave up home runs, or setup men who can't hold a lead never seem to be exempt from this phrase. What gives? What does this really mean?

Poll

Keeping the ball up. What does it mean?

Ball pitched up in the strikezone.

55 votes

Pitcher who gives up to many deep flys in a game.

1 votes

Ineffective pitching performance.

2 votes

Phrase manager uses because he can't say he doesn't like young players.

11 votes

Other, please comment.

1 votes

70 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 8 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Ground balls

"Keeping the ball down" refers to locating pitches in the bottom part of the strike zone, which leads to more ground balls and generally weaker contact. Pitching "up in the zone" (or around the belt) can lead to solid contact and more line drives, since it's on the plane of a hitter's natural swinging line.

Nick & Nick's Twins Blog

by Nick Nelson on Feb 29, 2008 1:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

Yeah, if the ball is left out over the plate, it better be down because if it is belt high, it's going a long way.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Feb 29, 2008 1:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Perkins Spring training era:

27.00, OUCH! :)

by montanatwinsfan on Feb 29, 2008 2:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

However

If your 4 seam fastball is capable of moving, working up in the zone can lead to more missed bats and more strike outs. Catchers know which pitchers can work up and who can't. If a pitcher like Carlos Silva or Johan Santana who mainly throw 2 seamers to get foul balls, ground ball, or well located pitches to get ahead in the count, will give up home runs and extra bases if they're up. But a guy like Scott Baker is effective up in the zone.

But overall, you'll normally see catchers set up around the knees because as Nick said, it's a higher probability of a ground ball or overall weaker contact.

by TheMattWilke on Feb 29, 2008 2:30 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

+1

And pop ups, which are even better than strikeouts because they consume fewer pitches, are the natural result of a good rising four seamer up in the zone.

It all depends on how your ball naturally moves. If you have a lot of "hop" on your four-seam fastball, as Baker, Slowey, and Crain do, you can pitch up in the zone, at the very least to change the eye level for the hitter once in a while. A low four seamer is a HR pitch, because low ball hitters can get under it without popping it up.

If your two-seamer naturally sinks, it's best to keep the ball at the knees. A high two seamer is a HR pitch because hitters get natural back spin when they get under them.

Very few pitchers can get both hop on the four seamer and sink on the two seamer. That's why Baker, Crain and Slowey have struggled to conform to the Twins philosophy of the two seam fastball down in the zone.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Feb 29, 2008 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Joe Nathan

Did anyone read about how Joe Nathan's working on a 2 seamer? About how he sawed off Joe Mauer bat in BP and Mauer signed that bat "Nice 2-seamer" as a gift. I don't like it at all. His 4 seamer is fine, it's his slider that needs some serious attention this Spring.

by TheMattWilke on Feb 29, 2008 3:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I don't really have a problem with that at all...

the best closer in baseball tweaking some things to get even better.

Fine by me!

by djskilbr on Feb 29, 2008 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I would add

that you especially want off-speed stuff down in the zone.

A curve ball that is up essentially means it has not been snapped off, and it will hang there in the wheelhouse until it is deposited in the stands some 400 feet away.

The goal is to start the off-speed stuff down in the zone and have it break even lower. The batters see the ball and start to chase. You always want the batter to swing at your pitch, a pitch that is not in the strikezone.

A fastball with lift can really be thrown anywhere, in or out, up or down, just to keep the batter off-balance. As mentioned, a sinking fastball should be down in the zone as well.

That said, I remember watching Carlos Silva get shellacked in Detroit, 17-1, in the game in which Ruben Sierra tore a muscle swinging his bat late in the game. Anyway, the Tigers were hitting Silva's pitches off their shoetops and I mean really clubbing them.

So yeah, don't leave the pitches up in the zone, but if you got nothing, it just doesn't matter.

by Old Twins Cap on Feb 29, 2008 4:53 PM EST reply actions 0 recs