Nonroster invitees

by cmathewson on Mar 1, 2008 8:05 PM EST in News

I had to get the bad taste out of my mouth. Not one, not two, but three pictures of Johan Freekin' Santana in a Mets uniform. Sheesh. So I needed a relevant topic to push Jesse's man crush below the fold. And nothing says relevant like nonroster invitees.

And yes, the official style of all prefixes is to not hyphenate. Trust me, I spend way too much time in my day job convincing people of this simple fact. Don't tell me! You too? OK, look it up in the AP Style Guide and get back to me if you find any discrepancies.

Anyway. Back to the topic--nonroster invitees. The Twins invited more than their usual complement of nonroster invitees to camp this year. They have 61 players in camp. And, by my Minnesota math, that's 21 players not on the 40-man roster. I know. That's why we're solidly in the upper half of states in math test scores.

Many of these guys were signed to fill up AAA. But perhaps one or maybe even two could make the team out of spring training. I won't catalog all 21 of them. But I will take 5 that could make the team if they have a killer spring.

Randy Keisler: With all the choices Gardy and Andy had, this guy actually started a spring game today, which did not go well. Fortunately, it's likely his last spring start. It can be his last Twins appearance as far as I'm concerned. The numbers aren't good. And, though he's left handed and breathing, apparently that is not enough to play major league baseball.
Zach Day: Day has an outside shot to make the team as a long man out of the bullpen. His first spring outing was so so. 2 Ks, 2 BBs and no runs. We'll see how the rest of spring goes. 15 shut-out innings, and maybe.
Alejandro Machado: Machado was a Rule 5 draftee last year and would probably have beaten out Luis Rodriguez if he had not hurt himself in spring training. So L-Rod's charmed life continued and Machado spent the whole year on the DL. The Twins managed to send him through waivers without Washington objecting, which says a lot about him. I like his minor league numbers, his defense at six positions and his versatility. But I don't think Gardy will take him north based on his sporadic duty to start the spring.
Tommy Watkins: This guy is everybody's favorite player in the clubhouse. He's so dedicated, he picked up catching in the offseason, which means he can now play eight positions. And he hasn't hit half bad in his 10 minor league years. (No Firpo, that does not mean average.) I wouldn't be shocked if he makes the team. And I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up a coach in Fort Myers out of spring training.
Howie Clark: If Clark made the team, he would instantly become the oldest position player not named Redmond. He's had four stints in the majors with Toronto and Baltimore, amounting to 130 games total. His versatility and desire is what got him an invite. And we all root for these guys with a thought of a grizzled rookie with a face like Robert Redford waiting for a chance. But he should really start thinking about getting a network admin certification or looking into scouting or coaching.

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Thank you

for at least pushing the Mets Mancrush off the mainpage.

It is now safe to come back to Twinkietown.

As for the invitees, by my count there's exactly one pitching spot, and exactly one position spot.

On pitching, I've got Humber, Perkins, Day, and maybe an odd ball.

On position players, it seems like between Buscher, Casilla, Machado, Tolbert, Jones and the Gomez-Pridie-Span thing.

Buscher and Gomez have legs up. In fact, after what Gomez has done early it's kind of like-- the Twins have a player who is young, dynamic and exciting and can do things no one else can do on the field--in terms of speed and throwing.

Will they be dumb enough to ship that to Rochester? Or that cheap?

by Old Twins Cap on Mar 1, 2008 10:30 PM EST reply actions

Throwing

"the Twins have a player who is young, dynamic and exciting and can do things no one else can do on the field--in terms of speed and throwing."

umm..can I remind you that we have Cuddyer and Young who came in 1st and 2nd in the league in outfield assists...we have Punto for speed and Mauer.

I dont think you can make a statement like that...please point out what exactly you mean

by BCTwins on Mar 1, 2008 10:50 PM EST up reply actions

Huh?

What are you talking about? He specifically mentioned Gomez right before that. It couldn't have been made clearer...

by clutchhit20 on Mar 1, 2008 11:17 PM EST up reply actions

Speed. And the arm of Ajax.

Hey man, I mean a player faster than Jose Reyes, who has torn up the National League. (If you want numbers, look it up.)

And with an arm that makes Torii Hunter look like a dabbler. Did you see his throw on Friday night? (If not, check it out.)

I'm talking a player, on the field, who can do things no one else can do-- in terms of speed, glove and arm.

A one-of-a-kinder. He outshines Ellsbury and Cabrera. Big time.

Write down my user name and rub it in my face years from now. You heard it here. Gomez es especial.

There is a reason why the Twins took the Mets deal.

by Old Twins Cap on Mar 1, 2008 11:21 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

I agree that Gomez is pretty special, but I don't think that means he should be north for sure. If he can't hit like a major leaguer, he shouldn't be around.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 2, 2008 5:39 AM EST up reply actions

I think what 33 was saying

was that cuudyer and young have an arm. Punto has speed. We don't necessarily need Gomez to provide either of those two things. That would be reading your comments to suggest that we dont have anyone with those specific talents, therefore we need him at the major league level no matter how raw his bat skills might be.

So 33 just misread you, because what you meant to say was that we don't have anyone on the field with that "combination" of skills. And that combination of skills outweighs his young/underdeveloped/poor bat skills.

Anyway, I think there is one important factor that Gardenhire and his staff need to weigh before they make the decision to bring him up now or not - and it is a factor that we may never be able to discuss or argue about: Gomez' persona.

What the hell does that mean? Well, there are a lot of pro ball players (I don't know in baseball for sure, but I know in hockey, anyway) who have so much personal confidence, determination, and grit that you could throw them in over their heads and they would not let their failures deter them from improving, or make them start doubting themselves. Someone like Torii Hunter or Matt Garza.

Then there are a number of players who are on the edge of being ready and are thrown in too soon, and who lack that same personality. Instead of remaining confident in their strengths they ruminate on their failings and get nervous, maybe a little gun shy. For those types of players you might be setting them back a few years by throwing them in too early. Cuddyer and Baker might be good examples of that. And I am positive that there are some examples where it derailed their careers altogether, but I have far, far too poor a memory to think of any examples.

by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2008 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

Wow

cuudyer and young have an arm. Punto has speed. We don't necessarily need Gomez to provide either of those two things.

That is one of the most bizarre things I've read this spring. Where do I even start?

OK, first Punto. Punto is not all that fast. He looks fast because he hustles. He looks fast because he dives into first base. But by most numerical measures, he's not fast. How many infield singles does he steal with his speed? I kept track of this last year because I have a fetish about diving into first. I hate it with the passion of a globular cluster. With my scouting eye, a reasonably fast guy (such as Bartlett) would have beaten out seven infield hits off the bat of Punto last year. Punto beat out 0.0 (in part because he insisted on diving, in part because he's not that fast). For his career, Nick Punto has 311 stolen bases and 205 caught stealing. That's below average. And there are all kinds of numbers on range and taking the extra base that show the same thing. He's not especially fast. I certainly wouldn't pinch run Punto for two many players on the team.

Gomez is the fastest guy in baseball. He's faster then Jose Reyes. He's faster Jacoby Ellsbury. He's faster than Curtis Granderson. That kind of speed is special.

Plus, so what if Punto has some speed? He's a utility infielder. He can't play center field to save his life. We tried him out there for parts of two games and it was a disaster. He turned five singles into extra base hits and let a triple dribble into the gap. You need speed in center field. Gomez is the guy who can give you more speed than anyone in the game out there. And he is also very good at getting jumps on balls and hustling to make spectacular plays. He had more Web Gems in the few Mets games he played in last year than Carlos Beltran had all year. He's a legitimate gold glove caliber center fielder.

Now to the question of arms. Yes, Young and Cuddyer have good arms. But how is that going to help us on balls hit towards center field? Would Span or Pridie throw it to Cuddyer or Young to relay it in? No. Center is the toughest position from which to cut throws because of the wide angle of possibilities. For that reason, it's the most important position to have a strong arm. Gomez would have the strongest arm on the team, which is saying a lot. It would instantly turn opposing teams into station-to-station teams. It would really be special if all three guys had the best arms in the league at their positions. Gomez gives us that option. Pridie has a decent arm, nothing special. Span's is below average.

My view is that Gomez is about on par with Pridie offensively but defensively and on the bases, there's no comparison. I would be very surprised if Gomez is not the guy going north. He will have to learn to hit on the job. But I don't have a problem with that. It won't be the first time (Hunter).

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 2, 2008 11:52 AM EST up reply actions

Excellent breakdown...

and I too am super-excited for Gomez.

Coupled with Mauer's absolute gun at C, it is going to be awesome to watch the fear in baserunners' eyes against the Twins this year. I can't wait.

As for the group, I'd say Machado has the best chance, but I kind of fear that Buscher is going to get the nod in Gardy's world as the last bench guy.

It's not that Buscher is a bad player. He's fine as a bench option. It's just that he's incredibly redundant to Lamb. I can't imagine a scenario that I would plug him in instead of Lamb. They're both LH's, they're both 3b, they're both defensively-challenged. And Lamb is a better hitter.

Doesn't make sense to me, but as such, that's probably what will happen. Gardy at his finest.

by djskilbr on Mar 2, 2008 12:11 PM EST up reply actions

I agree

There are a lot fewer situations in which the Twins would need Buscher than Machado. I suppose one case is as a lefty pinch hitter for Everett. I can't think of anyone else he would pinch hit for. Gomez maybe, but who plays center in the event of success?

The ideal guy would be someone like Inge who can play first, third and catcher and hit from the right side. But I doubt the Twins will get him. Tommy Watkins can play those positions somewhat, but he can't hit enough to stick. Maybe the Phillies would part with Seth's buddy Chris Coste. I don't know. I don't really like the options for 25th man in camp.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 2, 2008 12:50 PM EST up reply actions

problem with philosophers, or contrarians?

"cuudyer and young have an arm. Punto has speed. We don't necessarily need Gomez to provide either of those two things.

That is one of the most bizarre things I've read this spring. Where do I even start?"

Now I doubt you were responding directly to me as I think it was clear that I was just trying to help articulate 33's apparent misunderstanding of Old Twins cap's comments rather than espousing a point of my own. However, even if I didn't hack 33's thoughts, and you were responding to those thoughts, your opening line could use a little work.

That is one of the things I liked least during my undergrad days in philosophy. Too many people attempting (often completely unthinkingly) to boost their own arguments, rationales, or egos, by being unecessarily, and uncharitably, critical of others'.

Now for my personal thoughts: I agree Punto is not particularly fast, and his insistence on sliding into first is inexusable at the major league level. Gomez is apparently so fast it is almost silly to try and compare him to others. He is fast, that is a big plus, and goes a long way to offset an inexperienced bat. Maybe goes far enough. Now add in the fact that he appears to have a great arm and you have a strong argument that his defense will thoroughly make up for his offense.

So, the question is whether Pridie and/or Span are good ehough offensively to offset the fact that they aren't as good defensively as Gomez.

Since I haven't seen any of them play, I will leave that positive argument, as to which one appears to be the best candidate to make the cf spot, up to you guys.

by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2008 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

Not intended to target you

It was just a bizarre comment that I could use as a foil for my comments.

But I still don't understand the label contrarian. If anything, I'm a homer, albeit an analytical homer. But whatever.

And philosophers do have a thing called the principle of charity, which says that you have to try to make the most sense out of another's statements that you can. Only after that can you criticize. I think you were attempting to use the principle of charity for 33MVP, with little success. Sometimes in trying to make sense out of a senseless statement, you only lend clarity to how little sense is in it. In that case, you helped me.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 2, 2008 3:20 PM EST up reply actions

Only chance

I think the only one with a chance is Casey Daigle so that Gardy has another option out of the bullpen if his wife is in the crowd.

by CCTwinsFan on Mar 1, 2008 10:32 PM EST reply actions

None.......

They will be there, at AAA, if the need arises during the season. Otherwise, no one that you'd bump someone else out of a spot, especially when (barring injury) you basically have one pitcher and one hitter position.

Keisler might just be kept because he is a lefty, as is Mariano Gomez. But should any of these guys keep the future crop of Twins buried further in the minors? Darnell McDonald, Chris Basak, Brian Bass anyone?

Pretty dismal crop of invitees. We all remeber last year's crop - Mike Venafro. What ever happened to him?

check out Twinkies autograph collection at www.TwinsCards.com

by twintown on Mar 1, 2008 11:09 PM EST reply actions

3-3

Hi y'all!

Three games and three extra base hits. Is that correct or is it only two...I can't remember what happened yesterday.

Of the five mentioned above, I would think Watkins would have the best chance of sticking, or maybe Clark since he is grisled and Gardy loves the grisled veterans.

by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Mar 2, 2008 5:01 AM EST reply actions

CMATH

PLEASE, after today's game will you, or someone, give us a breakdown of some of the numbers we have seen so far in these early games.

I KNOW they are meaningless, but what the heck else have we got right now.

Somewhat less meaningless might be the pitcher's performances rather than the hitter's.

by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2008 10:06 AM EST reply actions

Machado

Machado is the really interesting one on this list to me. I think he'd already be a better utility man than Punto. I expect him to take the job someday.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 2, 2008 2:26 PM EST reply actions

Ya, I'm hoping...

that we can keep Machado this year in the minors, then next year, we might well have the following (my ideal situation if everyone pans out):

2b-Harris
SS-Casilla
3b-Lamb
Bench:
UTIL-Machado (inf/OF)
UTIL-Macri/spelling Lamb as a RH
Redmond/Morales-C backup (depends on Redmond retiring or not)
Backup OF-Pridie
Backup RH 1b/DH with pop-signed guy in the mold of a Monroe

I assume you guys can guess the rest of the starters; they should be the same as this year, with Kubel as a full-time DH.

by djskilbr on Mar 3, 2008 12:35 AM EST up reply actions

That

That looks good. Then when Lamb is gone is 2010 you have options. Harris could move to third and you could move up Plouffe. Or if Valencia is at third you can bring up him. You get some options then.

Baseball is great because you cant take a knee or kill the clock. You gotta put the ball over the plate and give the other guy his damn shot E Weaver abridged

by AdamOnFirst on Mar 3, 2008 2:21 AM EST up reply actions

Ya...

I could actually see Lamb's option being picked up in 2010, with Harris forming a great platoon at 3b and Plouffe at 2b, or with Harris sticking at 2b if Plouffe doesn't pan out, with one of Valencia/Romero being worked into the mix at 3b.

by djskilbr on Mar 3, 2008 10:33 AM EST up reply actions

Romero

I think he's the future of the position. But he'll be in low A ball this year. If he moves a level a year, he'll be ready in 2012. If he skips a level, obviously, he'll be here earlier. But I wouldn't bet on it. He's enormously talented, but he's not a prototypical Twins prospect. He doesn't hustle in practice, for example.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Mar 3, 2008 10:46 AM EST up reply actions

Good days today for "the other guys"

half-listened to the game today while I was sheetrocking. Sounded like Pridie and Span both had darn good games defensively, both had a stolen base, and both swung the bat fairly well.
Then again it sounded as if Kent Hrbek might have stolen a base against Mirabelli had he tried, and everyone and his mother could have tallied either a hit or a walk off of the Boston pitchers today.

by montanatwinsfan on Mar 2, 2008 4:21 PM EST reply actions