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Letter to a Yankee Fan

A friend who is a Yankee fan (not an oxymoron, really) sent me this email after the Twins signed Joe Nathan to his huge contract extension:

"Frankly, this move baffles me. If Nathan were 24, I'd understand. Even 28.
But he's what, 33? How can you trade the best pitcher in baseball for
long-term prospects, but sign one of the top relievers to a long term deal?
How can you simultaneously start a player in centerfield that even his own
manager/GM agree is NOT READY and sign a high-profile reliever? That would
be like the Marlins signing Arod, but then trading Cabrera and Willis
anyway."

It took me a while to figure out why I disagreed. If the only legitimate goal is winning a world series, then maybe everyone should dismantle their team, time all their prospects to peak at one time, put all their eggs in one basket and make a run for it. (You're welcome, fans of the mixed metaphor.) But there's something about that that's just wrong. It's hard to put your finger on, but this is what I came up with -- if someone can explain why the Twins' way is better better, please post!

 

Here's one other perspective you might not have thought of, since you are a Yankee fan. It's very easy to fall into the trap of thinking there's one successful team and all the others as failures. Each game counts, in and of itself, not just as a meaningless steppingstone to the World Series. Winning more games than you lose means you had a winning season. You're better than most other teams! You don't have to win the world series to enjoy winning. A win's a win.

The Twins couldn't afford Santana or Hunter, but they could afford Nathan, who will provide their fans with much satisfaction and pleasure and help secure many real, honest to god wins. They may never win the world series again. So what. Their fans are still allowed to be happy about winning individual games. And that happiness counts. It matters.

Each time we go into the ninth with a lead over the Yankees and Nathan shuts those blowhards down we will be quite happy, believe me. We may not win the other two games of the series, and may even gripe about how it was unfair to have to face a team of all-stars. But even in a loss we'll enjoy a stolen home run by our fleet center fielder, or Liriano striking out Arod with the bases loaded, or Mauer throwing out Abreu or Damon.

You New Yorkers just don't know how to appreciate the little things sometimes. World series victories are kind of gauche, really. Those parades -- tacky. Hustle and never-say-die positive attitudes, that's what we admire. That stuff is worth a lot more than just buying a championship.

And the possibility remains that the hometown boys will rise up and climb to the top of the heap in spite of it all. I'd rather dream of that and not achieve it than celebrate a corrupt and hollow victory. Heck, it even happened -- twice! -- in 1987 and 1981. Our cup runneth over! Go Twins!

Be forewarned, our up and coming minor league pitchers stand at the ready in waves and waves. Our top five could all flop and we've got five more ready, and five more behind them. We will never go away! Baker, Bonser, Liriano, Slowey, Blackburn...Perkins, Duensing, Humber, Mulvey, Guerra...Robertson, Manship, Pino, Rainville, Swarzak..and that's not even counting Kyle Waldrop! And after that, there will be five more. Always.

Nothing you can say can make us go away. We're like gnats. Pests. A swarm of children that cannot, will not, ever be convinced by grownups to stop believing in the preposterous. You can stomp out our present, but you can't stomp out our future.

The Yankees and their fans alone are doomed to year after year of failure every time they do not win the World Series. So despite their grand resources, they fail more than any other city, because they do not understand that small victories are all around, all the time, for all of us to enjoy and savor. You would never think to envy us, the small, the meek, but you should, you should. We are truly the chosen people.

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Amen!

Great post! I love the chase throughout the regular season knowing that post-season is always a crap-shoot (see 1987) but that my Twins will always play hard.

by CCTwinsFan on Mar 26, 2008 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers signed Ivan Rodriguez...

...after they'd just won 43 games. A lot of people criticized that move. The Tigers signed Magglio Ordonez coming off of a 72-win season. A lot of people criticized that move, too. There wasn't too much criticism for those signings after the 2006 season, though.

Building a championship team is a multi-year project, and it's basically impossible to add all of the veterans to the mix in the same offseason. If the Twins truly believe that Nathan will be an effective pitcher for the duration of his contract, then having an elite closer under contract for $11-12M/year is a good thing. Nathan's health is clearly a risk, and it's honestly not the sort of risk I would take, but pouring the money into prospects and hoping everything comes together at the right moment is a risk too.

Basically, I can understand criticism of the contract if people really believe that Nathan will sharply decline, but I don't buy the criticism of the signing just because Nathan is a closer. As a closer, Nathan can be (and has been) a 5-7 win player in a season--regardless of whether the team is good or not--and those wins count just as much as if they came from a position player or a starting pitcher.

by ubelmann on Mar 27, 2008 1:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Post

Couldn't agree with you more. The Twins way is unique, and true Twins fans are some of the best baseball educated people in the sport. Right on brother, right on.

by WITwinsfan on Mar 27, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Fun piece of hyperbolic b.s.

And that's not a criticism, believe it or not. I like what you wrote and appreciate the time and effort, pure unadulterated hyperbole aside.

But I have to say that your NYY fan made a couple of good points and as much fun as your letter was to read, it didn't give him (or any thoughtful Yankee fan) much credit. It simplified their "fanhood" to the point of absurdity: "doomed year after year" and gave our front office way too much credit for these incongruent decisions:

they "couldn't afford Santana [arguable] or Hunter, but they could afford Nathan"

IMHO, affording Nathan, after you've screwed up with Hunter, Santana and others is attempting to rectify your mistakes in hindsight, and is quite likely going to magnify those mistakes. Let's hope not. But let's be realistic. If Nathan does well this year it will not help a team who cannot get him the lead in the 9th anyway. If his arm falls off next year we will have sunk a lot of money into him for the next three years...

Damn, I gotta stop sounding so pessimistic, because I, like you in your post ,am going to enjoy every win anyway, but I gotta tell you that I agree with the NYY fan, these moves seem disjointed, incongruent and not well thought out. When you are a small market team that can be a recipe for disaster.

by montanatwinsfan on Mar 27, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Getting the lead in the 9th...

If Nathan does well this year it will not help a team who cannot get him the lead in the 9th anyway.

2007 Save Opportunities:

46 -- Chad Cordero
46 -- Francisco Rodriguez

41 -- Joe Nathan
40 -- Jonathan Papelbon

36 -- Kevin Gregg
34 -- Mariano Rivera

Bad teams get plenty of chances to win close games over the course of a season. Hell, the Nationals had more save opportunities than any team in baseball last year. A lot of championship teams distinguish themselves by winning a lot of blowout games and not needing to be in save situations.

by ubelmann on Mar 27, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can appreciate that, but

re-signing Nathan was a big risk, as you mentioned above... "and it's honestly not the sort of risk I would take, but..."

Does it matter that Joe converts a hypothetical 98% of his opportunities this year if the Twins only win 70 games?

I don't want to get sidetracked on whether Joe's contract was worth it or whether Joe will be great in 2009/2010 - if for no other reason that I surely don't know the answers to those questions. However, sticking to the theme of the original post by by jiminy, are these decisions consistent with winning and/or putting butts in the seats?

Hunter was a star and fan favorite (I am not inviting a discussion on his objective value just his value to the casual fan) and a career Twin before he signed somewhere else. Santana was the best pitcher in baseball over the past three years and might still be for the next three, and a fan favorite. Both were winners (subjective I know) and both put butts in seats, and sold jerseys. Is $12million/year for 4 years for a premier but aging closer somehow smarter/better/more likely to add to the bottom line of money or wins, than $15M/yr for a premier but aging center fielder, or $20(+)M/yr for a premier and not quite yet aging, but injury risky position star pitcher?

Just to let you know where I stand, I think both Santana and Nathan should have been retained, and Morneau, Mauer, and Cuddyer extended at the same time so that Santana and Nathan could see the Twins were serious about winning and actually would have been more inclined to take a small, but important hometown discount. Had the Twins and Terry Ryan (who I think overall was a very good GM) extended the important players and treated the veterans with respect they could have convinced Santana that they were serious about winning and that they were serious about treating him with respect too.

Hindsight (and second-guessing) from a long way away, I know.

But I believe the Twins, and Bill Smith saw how the Twins were being penny-wise and pound foolish and he attempted to rectify that through some good decisions (Morneau and Cuddyer) and one pretty risky decision that was incongruent with allowing Santana to walk by extending a closer to such an expensive, long term, risky contract.

I like Nathan, and I am glad to see management rewarding his efforts and promoting fuzzy warm feelings by giving him the money he deserves, but I think it is too late and too risky. Far more importantly to me, I see it as a real possibility that Bill Smith might be trying to have his cake and eat it too - which never works, especially with a small market team with little room for salary based errors.

by montanatwinsfan on Mar 27, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Relative to what I think they are "worth" as free agents...

I think that Hunter will be vastly overpaid, Santana's contract is about right, and that Nathan gave the Twins a hometown discount (again.) From that standpoint, I understand why the Twins kept Nathan and not the other two players.

Does it matter that Joe converts a hypothetical 98% of his opportunities this year if the Twins only win 70 games?

Yes, I think it does matter. I'd rather not have the team dip so far below .500 that players are losing so often it becomes commonplace and breeds a culture of losing. Maybe that's a small thing, but I don't think the Twins have made any moves in pursuit of 70 wins this year that hurt them much in the future, especially since I think that the Twins will be able to move Nathan's contract even if he disappoints.

FWIW, I would have probably kept Nathan, kept Garza/Bartlett, traded Santana for Hughes/Cabrera, signed Mike Cameron, let Hunter walk, and gone year-to-year with Cuddyer and Morneau. I'd be trying to ramp up more for 2009 than 2010--I don't like punting that many seasons.

by ubelmann on Mar 28, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

confidence of young starters

I think signing Nathan was probably not the most efficient use of dollars on a wins-per-dollar basis, and those dollars spent differently might have contributed more wins if spent another way.

One interesting explanation given for paying a premium over his actual W/L contributions is the psychological benefit to the young pitchers. The assistant GM who negotiated the contract told Kelly Thesier, the team's official mouthpiece on mlb.com, that a major concern for the Twins was that losing games late hurts the confidence of young players.

I trust their judgment that developing young players requires some psychological nurturing, and I have no doubt this is a real issue. But then you have to look at the opportunity cost of not spending that money elsewhere in psychological terms too. Suppose you spent $12M a year on a slugger instead. Isn't it a great psychological boost when a 3-run homer bails out a young pitcher and gives him a 6-4 win, when having Joe Nathan instead means a 4-3 loss? Ask Matt Cain which he'd rather have, a superstar closer or more run support.

The whole quote is interesting:
http://minnesota.twins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080324&content_id=2454740&vkey=spt2008news&fext=.jsp&c_id=min)

"Antony, who negotiated the deal with Pepe, said the club felt that keeping Nathan was important for a few reasons. Among those was the fact that the team is entering 2008 with a very young rotation, and the Twins didn't want the team's confidence shaken by losing leads late in ballgames.

The club also didn't want to mess with the current roles for other pitchers in its bullpen, which has been among the best in baseball in recent seasons.

And there was a feeling that after watching other top-tier talent leave the organization, the Twins wanted to try and prevent that from happening with Nathan -- if he indeed wanted to stay."

The last reason just concerns their image with players and fans; in terms of quantifiable contributions to Wins and Losses, it's totally irrelevant, though it may have a psychological impact on the team's play.

The others are all psychological. He mentions a young rotation, and a young team's confidence, and questions whether their other relievers could handle different "roles," which is basically a psychological issue too.

On pure numbers, there's no way the difference in runs prevented with or without Nathan would justify his cost as a percentage of their total budget. Because he pitches in high leverage situations, Nathan's runs disproportionately affect the results of games. But I still think the cost was too high.

But who knows. Maybe the entire team will pitch and hit better knowing he's got their back. We'll see.

The bottom line to me is I'll enjoy having him on the team. Questioning whether hiring Nathan is the most efficient strategy for preventing runs is fun, but not if you let it get in the way of enjoying what you have.

Maybe this didn't need to be so long. If I narrowed it down to single question, how about: which do you think is more important to a young pitcher's confidence, a good closer, or good run support?

by by jiminy on Mar 28, 2008 10:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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