Twinkie Town: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:





Changes to Follow Thumping

Thursday afternoon's contest against the Athletics was discouraging for many involved.

Francisco Liriano failed to make it through the first inning yesterday, easily making it his worst start to date in his career with the Twins.  Only 43% of his pitches were for strikes, and when you're struggling for command with your fastball there's not too much you're going to be able to do to be effective.  He recorded two outs, allowing eight men to reach base; Liriano was charged with six runs.

After his night off, Carlos Gomez collected hits in his first two plate appearances on Thursday.  Leading off in the top of the first, he gave the Twins a 1-0 lead when he hit his first home run of the season.  Minnesota's only other run came off Brian Buscher, who knocked in Mike Redmond from second base following his double in the fifth.

With more than eight innings chewed up by four members of the bullpen, it's likely that only Guerrier, Neshek and Nathan will be available for Friday night's game.  While Rincon and Reyes only threw 15 pitches apiece, in today's game that means they'll only be used if absolutely necessary.

It was a disturbing thing to watch, from the bottom of the first innings through the rest of the game.  Francisco Liriano's immediate future with the Twins will likely be decided in the next 24 hours, when the Twins will decide whether to option him to Rochester to further develop his arm, or whether to give him one more shot at a start.

Span Optioned to Rochester; Cuddyer to Start Friday

Following the 11-2 defeat, the Twins sent Denard Span back to triple-A to make room for Michael Cuddyer's return on Friday.  Span was 1-for-1 in relief of Jason Kubel yesterday, and Ron Gardenhire believes the outfielder needs to be with the big league club:

"I know he needs playing time, but I'd like to have him here and off my bench too," Gardenhire said. "Maybe that is something I can work out over the next couple weeks or so. I'd like to use him in the big leagues a bit more. I like having him here."

Span's appearances didn't shock anyone, and he didn't do too much to make you notice whether he was there or not.  But by playing well in the field and limiting his mental mistakes, he's at the very least impressed his manager.  Span averaged 3.97 pitches per plate appearance in his first brief stint with the Twins, and managed a .324 OBP.

On Friday night, Michael Cuddyer will make his first appearance since leaving the game on April 4.  Reports on Cuddyer, and his hand, have been positive.  It will be interesting to see if he favors it during his at-bats tonight.

Poll
Should Liriano be sent back to Rochester?
  • Yes
  • No

  83 votes | Results

0 recs | Comment 31 comments | Add your comment

Read Related

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

Looks like Liriano or Bass has been sent down. The Rochester newspaper reported that Bill Smith told Bobby Korecky after the game that he has been promoted.

The move has not been announced…

"Don't take anything for granted, because tomorrow is not promised to any of us."

by Twins Territory on Apr 25, 2008 7:23 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

To answer my own question...

...the answer is ‘no’, Korecky isn’t a starter, which is what I had thought. 10 appearances this spring so far, 0 starts.

by Jesse on Apr 25, 2008 9:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Also...

the Twins are off Monday, Thursday and Monday again. They won’t be needing five starters for awhile.

by Jesse on Apr 25, 2008 9:13 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Bass

I couldn’t imagine them demoting Bass because of the options situation. Why lose a player unnecessarily.

by WITwinsfan on Apr 25, 2008 9:25 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Bass is staying from what I'm reading.

Looks like it’s Liriano on his way down. Korecky probably got on a plane last last night of this morning, I’m not sure if he’ll be available for tonight’s game.

by Jesse on Apr 25, 2008 9:29 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Why is Mauer escaping scrutiny?

Blame is being tossed around for the Twins’ pathetic offense at various blog sites. Gleeman is flogging Gomez and Monroe (will that ever get old?). But Mauer, the Golden Boy, gets this from Cmath: “Joe Mauer is one of the best players in Twins history.”
.286/.329/.357 with no homers and nine RBI? Paging Todd Walker…..

Come on, Joe, can you manage to get that 6’6” frame and gorgeous swing to eke one over the fence once a month or so?

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

He does need to step it up

I’m putting together another pitch selection post this weekend, it’ll be intriguing to see how the data turns out on a lot of these guys-particularly Mauer. Hopefully this is just a slow start, and he’s probably being pitched around a little bit-but even if that’s the case, then he should be able to coax a few more walks. He’s hitting half as many line drives, a lot more ground balls, and his walk rates have been cut in half. The strikeouts are down too, but they were never going to be high to begin with.

You’re right, Mauer deserves as much blame as anyone right now.

by Jesse on Apr 25, 2008 9:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

My comment

Please don’t take a comment out of context from another thread and paste a portion of it here. What I said was essentially that Mauer got a free pass on Tuesday and Wednesday when he rolled over eight outside pitches for week grounders to second, four of them on the first pitch of the at bat. Finally, in the ninth on Wednesday he took one the other way for a double. But all the scrutiny was on Gomez when Mauer was also struggling. Gomez actually saw more pitches than Mauer, one was 0-10, the other was 1-10.

The point of saying that Mauer is one of the greatest players in Twins history (which I do believe) is even he struggles at times. But for some reason Gomez is a lightening rod for scrutiny every time he starts to struggle. Why do we expect him not to struggle and let the stars pass muster when they struggle? Everybody struggles in this game. Even the best guys fail two thirds of the time.

The only thing I can think of is, when Gomez struggles, he looks really ugly doing it. I used to have a vendetta against Greg Gagne because, when he was in a slump, he couldn’t make contact with the ball to save his life. I remember a 2-69 slump in which his two hits were bunt singles. But gradually over the years, he grew on me. He was very steady in the field, and he could carry the team when he got hot. I now consider him to have the best career of any shortstop in Twins history. (Zoillo was the best, but his career was short.)

Another guy who looked really ugly when he struggled was Torii Hunter. It got so bad one year that they had to send him down. But he came back strong and put up a pretty good career here. What bugs me is people focus on Gomez’s struggles and draw conclusions like, “he can’t hit” or “he’s an athlete, not a baseball player”. Then when he actually does something good, like homer on the sixth pitch of a lead-off at bat, one blogger said “It was bound to happen, someone was bound to throw a pitch in Gomez’s swing.”

Give the kid a break. He’ll be fine if everyone stops jumping to conclusions every time the kid struggles.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

How about...

“Joe Mauer has the tools to be one of the best players in Twins’ history.” Right now, and even last year, he is part of the problem.

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 11:23 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I stand by it

The first catcher in history to lead all of baseball in hitting deserves the designation. And he is the best defensive catcher I’ve ever seen, all things considered. Perhaps there’s a provision for best career vs best player at a position no matter how long they played it. similar to the Gags/Zoillo discussion. Earl Battey had the best catching career in a Twins uniform. Mauer is the best catcher to don a Twins uniform. And a couple of more years and he’ll also have the best catching career as a Twin.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 11:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Just a doggone minute here

“Even last year”? Are we expecting batting titles every year now? I realize that he didn’t meet fans’ expectations, especially in his power numbers, but he still hit .293/.382/.426 at the weakest offensive position. When he was in the lineup (which, I’ll grant, isn’t a plus for him), he was the best guy on the team at getting on base by a wide margin, and despite the lack of homers, his ISO wasn’t terrible, reasonably close to Cuddyer’s. He missed 50 games and still had the 5th-highest VORP of any catcher in baseball.

I am willing to accept that Joe Mauer hasn’t been all that good so far this year, and that he needs to do a better job staying the lineup to be considered a great player, but to say that he was “part of the problem” last year is basically ignoring what the real problem was last year – they were only above-average offensively at two positions (one of which was catcher) and average to significantly below-average at the other seven.

Bottom line: If your offensive production depends on Joe Mauer hitting every year like he did in 2006, the flaw is with your roster construction, not with Joe Mauer.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Apr 25, 2008 12:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

You said it better than I did

Little power, and difficulty staying in the line-up, even for a catcher. The roster IS built around him and the Twins will soon be paying him a lot of money to “Slappy” Mauer.

I doubt he will win another batting title, but if he fails to develop a power stroke for a team that desperately needs one, he will prove to be a disappointment rather than “one of the best players in Twins’ history.”

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 1:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Power

The two best years in Twins history:

Year A
616 PA 128 R 239 H 38 2B 16 3B 14 HR 100 RBI .388/.449 /.570

Year B
521 PA 86 R 181 H 36 2B 4 3B 13 HR 84 RBI .347/.429 /.507

Player A was Rod Carew’s famed 1977 year. Player B was Mauer’s 2006.

You don’t have to hit for a lot of power to be a great hitter. I think his swing is messed up in part because he’s been told he needs to hit for power so he’s become pull happy. If he gets back to the approach he had in 2006, he’ll be plenty good.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 2:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Funny

In Mauer’s best year (and quite possibly his career year), he still was out-homered, rbi’d, and slugged by Carew, a guy who flicked his wrists.

If you are happy with Mauer’s pathetic power for his size and swing, fine. In my mind he is a major culprit behind the team’s inability to generate runs.

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

LOL

Do you realize what you’re writing? Nothing but a better season than Rod Carew’s 1977 season would satisfy you. Well if that’s what you expect from Mauer, no wonder you aren’t satisfied with his production.

I suggest you look at some other players for reasons why the Twins’ offense is sputtering. While nobody is lighting the world on fire, these guys have been putrid:

Everett: .185/.214/.222
Lamb: .177/.212/.258
Redmond: .154/.214/.231
Punto: .267.313/.267
Young: .262/.287/.321

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 3:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Pathetic.

Luckily the Twins are not trying to build a team around any of those guys save Young. But Mauer on the other hand? Is it too much to ask for 15 homers?

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 3:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Homers would be nice

but Mauer’s issues involve more important things than power right now. He’s not hitting the ball squarely and is rolling over, forcing a lot of easy GB outs. I could be wrong, but this tells me he’s getting fooled. He’s talented enough to make contact, but he’s not getting good contact.

Once he starts driving the ball again he’ll be fine. The homers will come, but he has to learn to walk again before he can run…so to speak.

by Jesse on Apr 25, 2008 3:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Maybe

People have projecting Mauer to hit for more power for a long time now, including many within the organization.

I may have a long-ball fetish here, but a lot of commentators have been lamenting the Twins lack of power. If the club is going to build the team around Mauer for 2010, it sure would be nice if he could drive the ball out of the park 15 times a year.

The point of my comment was to consider some sources of the team’s struggles outside of Gomez and Craig Monroe. It seems people are eager to make excuses for Mauer.

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 3:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Mauer's certainly been disappointing...

...but he has a track record of success and will likely improve. If the point of your comment was to consider some sources of the team’s struggles outside of Gomez and Craig Monroe, we could look at the Twins’ VORP in decending order:

6.7 - Mike Lamb
3.4 - Delmon Young
2.7 - Adam Everett
1.5 - Mike Redmond
1.2 - Nick Punto
0.7 - Michael Cuddyer
0.6 - Denard Span
0.4 - Carlos Gomez
0.3 - Joe Mauer

There are three or four guys on that list who provide additional value with their glove—but Mauer is one of them. Justin Morneau started off pretty slow in the first month of his age 25 campaign, but that turned out to be a pretty good year overall.

Harris and Tolbert have really been the only two hitters to be remotely above expectations, so I don’t know why we really need to single anyone out.

by ubelmann on Apr 25, 2008 4:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Okay...

...apparently dashes in front of numbers get eaten by the comment system, but all of those VORP totals above are negative (as in, below replacement level.)

by ubelmann on Apr 25, 2008 4:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Piling on Joe

In terms of VORP, would you say that only Lamb and Young are true disappointments on that list? And the rest are about where we expect them to be?

And comparing Mauer to other catchers in terms of hitting is a bit misleading, because the Twins need Mauer to hit more like a third-basemen or even a right-fielder to be successful. Wouldn’t it be sweet if Mauer could come close to what Victor Martinez has done for the Tribe?

Maybe it is just time I remind myself that Joe Mauer is a very good player….for a catcher.

by wcooley on Apr 25, 2008 5:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

VORP is defense-related

If Mauer were at third base, his VORP would be lower. Teams are constructed to have better hitters at the corners and more defense up the middle. VORP takes this into account. But Mauer is a little different case because the Twins are counting on more from him than typical teams, certainly more than he’s given them. But I would say the same for Young and Lamb. Really, every Twin is below expectations, except Harris and Tolbert.

I just don’t think you single out Mauer at this stage. We’re, what, 22 games into the season? If he’s still a -0.3 VORP at the end of May, I’ll be worried (and shocked). At this point, he’s not getting it done. I’m confident he will when he stops trying to hit homers. I think the suggestion (from people within the organization) that he should hit more homers has messed him up. If he can just get back to doing his thing, he’ll be fine. And he’ll hit 15 homers this season, most of which will be the opposite way.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 5:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I would say that...

...Cuddyer and Mauer have been somewhat disappointing so far (for different reasons), but certainly not to the degree that Delmon and Lamb have been disappointing. With Gomez-Everett-Redmond-Punto-Span, there was no real reason to expect any of them to hit significantly above replacement level, so they have been largely unsurprising.

by ubelmann on Apr 25, 2008 9:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Gomez says: "Face."

Couldn’t agree more about Gomez. He gets into his first slump and people call for him to be thrown under the bus. I love that he homered leading off yesterday. I was really hoping for it. The Twins need more than Gomez to score runs, though he certainly helps.

Really if you look at this season so far, there’s no way they should have the record they do. They are not scoring runs, getting on base or slugging. And, with their two big hopes for the rotation, Liriano 0-3, Bonser 1-4, you would think they would be out of it already.

Instead they’ve been lucky, winning some series KC and Cleveland, by scoring, what, 5 runs in each series.

They either start hitting soon or it’s going to be a long, long season.

And, people can bitch about CarGo’s Ks all they want. I have never seen a player retired so many times on the same play as Mauer’s two-hopper to second. Never.

by Old Twins Cap on Apr 25, 2008 11:43 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

1st 'no' vote appears!

24: Yes
1: No

That’s quite the landslide at the moment.

by Jesse on Apr 25, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Guilty as charged

I voted no, because he shouldn’t go to Rochester, he should head back to New Britain and let Cuellar work the hell out of the kid.

by neide on Apr 25, 2008 10:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

On Liriano

There are two options: Put him in the bullpen until they need a fifth starter, or send him down to start in either Rochester or New Britain. I think he needs innings, which he might not get in the bullpen up here. So send him down and let him work on command. Only bring him up when his strike to ball ratio is 2-1. The reason why I suggested New Britain is because Bobby Cuellar is the manager there. Perhaps he can work with him.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 10:40 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Who is taking Liriano's spot?

Has this been announced? Is it automatically going to be Slowey or is Mulvey getting a chance?

by TMW on Apr 25, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Korecky

The Rochester papers are announcing that Bobby Korecky has been called up. The Twins only need four starters for the next week plus. So they’ll have an extra arm for the bullpen until they need another starter. Then it seems like Slowey would be next in line for a rotation spot. When that happens, it’ll be between Korecky and Bass to go down. But Bass is out of options, so I would say Korecky is up for a 10-day cup of coffee.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 25, 2008 11:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Re:

After I posted I saw that Bass wasn’t sent down afterall. I thought Korecky was going to get his shot when the initial reports that Rincon was going to Tampa came out. Then I was surprised again that Bass got the job over him because Korecky seems like his potential is greater. I hope he can get some outs because my hopes are up for him.

by TMW on Apr 25, 2008 2:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs


User Tools

TT is an SB Nation blog of, by and for the fans. We strive to be the best Minnesota Twins blog by providing quality content and analysis, as well as daily news and notes on the team. We hope you'll make Twinkie Town your home for all things Twins!
Ad-medium-smq

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Small
Minor League Report...May 3, 2008

Recent FanPosts

Morneau_small
Tolbert on DL
Small
Gomez and Casilla
Fatty_small
Section 119, Row 7
Small
Liriano update
Small
I have a cold...
Chef2_small
Weekly Whatnot, 5/7
Small
Minor League Report...May 10, 2008
Userimageservlet_small
Reusse's Karma
Small
Who'da thunk?
Small
Notes on a Cycle

Post New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini


Ad-banner-faketeams

Managers

Twinkietown_small Jesse

Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler

Fatty_small cmathewson

Authors

Corey_in_drag_small Corey Ettinger

Moderators

Small mbennett

ad

Site Meter