Whence comes the "Frankie is lazy" accusations?
by BD57
on Apr 25, 2008 8:13 PM EDT
Comment after comment on various boards / blogs make the accusation / insinuation ..... "Frankie is lazy"
Some say Frankie's had long enough to get back in form. Others say the Twins brought Frankie to the big club rather than leave him in Rochester because he's lazy & Gardy, et al. wanted him close so they could keep after him. He's been accused of being "fat".
Basically, every explanation has been given for his suckage other than "that was a bad injury, he hasn't played for 18 months & he's trying to pitch and change his mechanics at the same time."
What's the deal here? How big is the group in the fan base that believes Frankie's some sort of malingerer??? Do they have some sort of factual basis for believing it - something Frankie's said or done, something Gardy, et al. have said or done? What is it?
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on BD57…I just want to say that Frankie is not “lazy”
he has been very patient with this surgery and has not rushed himself (something very hard for a good young SP)...I dont know where they get the idea that Frankie is lazy….sure Frankie did put on some pounds but that fills him out a little more and puts a little more oomph into his pitches.
by 33MorneauMVP on Apr 25, 2008 8:39 PM EDT 0 recs
Word
Anyone want to take a shot at saying he’s a clubhouse cancer?
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Apr 25, 2008 9:13 PM EDT 0 recs
Well, he is lazy
Do they have some sort of factual basis for believing it
Just the remarks from someone who should know: Ron Gardenhire.
The manager was reported to have criticized Liriano’s approach to conditioning last weekend.
Catching a fly ball is a pleasure. Knowing what to do with it after you catch it is a business.
by Firpo Marberry on Apr 25, 2008 9:16 PM EDT 0 recs
oh so now
we believe what Gardy says? I can quote several things by Gardy:
“Punto handles the bat extremely well.”
“Punto is the fastest player on this ballclub.”
“oh, that was a tough pitcher (Bonderman 4.28) and he is just really good.”
so, I think we can say that Gardy stretches the truth a little unless of course everybody is a Gardentool fan here.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Apr 25, 2008 10:13 PM EDT
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Lame
Unless Gardy know more about what goes on in your family than you do?
Of course not. You’re there, he’s not.
Now retain that line of thinking and apply it to you and the Twins’ clubhouse.
Catching a fly ball is a pleasure. Knowing what to do with it after you catch it is a business.
by Firpo Marberry on
Apr 25, 2008 10:54 PM EDT
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All I know is what I can see on TV
And to me, it’s not about being lazy.
It’s about seeming to be indifferent to outcome. He seems mechanical and he throws the ball as if this is what he’s been hired to do, so he does it.
No passion. No creativity. No trying to make things tilt in his direction.
Call it whatever you will, caution, lack of confidence, indifference. He ain’t there yet.
by Old Twins Cap on Apr 25, 2008 10:33 PM EDT 0 recs
man you know
nothing…Liriano wants to come back. He wants to return to 06 form. if you want, he wants it for the fame!
dont say that he is indifferent…do you know how long it takes to recover?
by 33MorneauMVP on
Apr 25, 2008 10:46 PM EDT
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Don't take it so hard
He ain’t there yet, and he knows it. Look at his body language.
by Old Twins Cap on
Apr 26, 2008 12:27 AM EDT
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how do either one of you know...
what Liriano “wants”?
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on
Apr 26, 2008 12:53 AM EDT
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and for me now seen in person
He looked like his head wasn’t into it after he walked his first batter.
His body language looked like he was thinking “oh man, here we go again”
Kicking the dirt on the mound after the A’s scored the first few runs and that made Remond come and talk to him so I think Redmond saw it too.
I think he wants to be a great pitcher. I also think he is unable to be one right now. What I don’t know if it is b/c of a mental issue or a physical one. What I do know is that Rochester didn’t think he was ready and the Twins ignored them, after his starts, I’d say the folks in Rochester were right.
by caluofmn on
Apr 26, 2008 10:52 AM EDT
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Lots of reports...
I seem to remember sources other than Gardy talking about his lack of conditioning, particularly during his rehab the Twins were a bit upset because they were getting reports that he was spending more time in the discos than working on his rehab….and then there was the whole visa snafu, which wasnt his fault, but he could have done more to get himself into shape while waiting for the issue to resolve himself.
by guinness junky on Apr 25, 2008 10:55 PM EDT 0 recs
this isn't something that has been invented
The Twins (Gardenhire, coaches) have worried about his lack of conditioning or that he won’t do the conditioning unless someone makes him. There have been public statements about him not going very hard during pitchers’ fielding practice. He could have gotten that visa stuff straightened out a lot earlier. He has never been particularly honest with the Twins about whether or not he is hurt, or how he feels.
That said, he’s going through a tough comeback and I’m not ready to call him names or say his career is over. The Twins made a huge mistake (we all called it) in calling him up. He is a competitor, and he can’t be blamed for going out there and taking the ball when he clearly is not ready, since the organization asked him to. Now they have realized their mistake and will send him back to AAA where he belongs to get back into form. I don’t see what the big deal is about any of it.
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on Apr 26, 2008 12:59 AM EDT 0 recs
I don't see how this was such a huge mistake
It was three starts. Now Liriano knows he has a long way to go, and should be sufficiently motivated to work hard. Most professional athletes possess a certain amount of arrogance, and sometimes they need to be shown first-hand that they are not ready. With someone else making those starts, you could maybe expect us to have won one or two of those games. And you can mark it down: those lost games won’t cost us any playoff appearances.
I don’t see what the big deal is about any of it.
I don’t see the big deal about it from any end of it. The Twins clearly made this move on the hunch that Liriano either would work harder with the Twins (and thus be successful) or that he needed a kick in the pants. And it could well be that he’s not all that motivated to do rehab and get ready to go again. I know a lot of folks who aren’t that motivated to do their job, and it takes an odd duck to really have fun with rehab.
This season is a lost cause anyway, since we don’t have anything close to a championship-caliber lineup, so gambling a couple of games on hopefully developing one of our most important pitchers is alright with me. At this point, all I can do is hope that Liriano’s command comes back eventually, but there’s no guarantee that would have happened if he never got called up, just like there’s no guarantee it’ll come back now that he’s potentially more motivated to work hard to get to the top again.
by ubelmann on
Apr 26, 2008 3:04 AM EDT
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Exactly
I think there was some benefit to him coming up and struggling, and since there isn’t much of a chance of those bad starts costing us a playoff position I don’t see any harm done. Now he can go back to Rochester with a good idea of what he needs to work on (locating his fastball, confidence, whatever…) without that thought in his head that he doesn’t belong there.
by _JP_ on
Apr 26, 2008 10:20 AM EDT
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i admit
that I didn’t consider the possibility that the Twins called him up specifically to send him a message. This is actually the only interpretation that really makes sense to me, since Liriano obviously wouldn’t help the team win, since starting him would wear down the bullpen, since he could has more room for error in Rochester, etc… But if this is what they felt they needed to do to get him to take the rehab seriously, then more power to them. I’m just glad the experiment is over, because it can’t be fun for the rest of the clubhouse when a guy is called up specifically to get shelled.
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on
Apr 26, 2008 4:38 PM EDT
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I think the Twins thought that..
...there was some chance Liriano wouldn’t get shelled because he would work harder with the Twins and working harder tends to lead to better results. So I don’t think it was solely to send Liriano a message, but I think that was a big part of it.
by ubelmann on
Apr 26, 2008 5:21 PM EDT
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Not lazy
Just like with Kubel, Gardy will mistake slow motor with lazy. It’s interesting that both these guys have huge talent. Both these guys had major injuries and spent a lot of time rehabbing away from the club. When hey came back to the club, they appeared to have a slow motor, so Gardy assumed that they are lazy. You don’t rehab from these injuries and get back anywhere close to where you were before by being lazy. Perhaps the rehab saps some of your nervous energy because slow ans steady wins the race.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Apr 26, 2008 10:28 AM EDT 0 recs
New York
Is a player lazy? Honestly, we have no damn way of knowing. I’m not comfortable with just taking Gardenhire’s word on it one way or the other, but I have no reasonable insight into the truth of it one way or the other.
Quite frankly, I think all this, “is he lazy,” “is he bad with his teammates,” or “is he passionate” is for the New York media to waste time on. I’m not interested in dissecting Alex Rodriguez’s relationship with Derek Jeter and how it’s poorly affecting double plays or whatever. I don’t much care WHO Tony Romo is dating or whatever Matt Leinert was doing with those (hot) sorority girls.
Look, I don’t see it terribly likely that Liriano is all THAT lazy to have gotten to where he is, but maybe is he is lay compared to other major leaguers. I don’t know. What I do know is his mechanics look terrible and far away from what made him successful before. I think it’s what the Twins have done to try and make his delivery safer. I am of the opinion that if this is the vision of his delivery that the Twins have, he isn’t very likely to do anything near what he did before every again.
But is he lazy? Aw hell, I dunno. Maybe he likes to play poker and drink a bear in the clubhouse when some of the guys are getting extra hitting or a little extra running in. Maybe Joe Mauer thinks to himself that Liriano ought to work a little harder. Hell, i don’t know. I just want to see that fastball back in the mid 90’s and that snappy slider again.
Speaking of his slider, wasn’t there a batgirl name for Liriano’s slider? Let’s see, I think it was pancho, because he was named “The Cisco kid” and that character’s sidekick is named Pancho, so batgirl went with that name. We might have made that up on TT as well, i don’t recall…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Apr 27, 2008 6:07 AM EDT 0 recs
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