The Thome Walk

by Jon Marthaler on Apr 7, 2008 10:53 PM EDT in News

As Jesse mentioned below, the Monday loss was entirely down to a bad seventh inning by the bullpen - and the whole Sox rally got started with a walk, by Matt Guerrier and issued to Jim Thome.

At the time, watching the game, it appeared to me that several of the pitches were borderline - by which I mean pretty much right down Broadway. Dick Bremer even commented on at least one of the pitches, noting that he thought it was a strike.

I went back to Gameday to confirm my notions; here's the image of Thome's six-pitch at-bat. I've helpfully drawn in the strike zone, according to the definition in the rulebook. (Note - the extra vertical lines are to account for the "black" on the plate.)

Not sure about you, but it looks like there's a couple of pretty good pitches in that at-bat to me. Maybe pitch #2 (called a strike) was outside, but if that was a strike, it'd be hard to argue that #3 was a ball.

If Gameday is accurate, then you have to wonder - just what was home plate umpire Phil Cuzzi seeing in that at-bat?

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The rulebook definition of the strike zone

The rulebook defines the top of the strike zone as the midpoint between the batter's shoulders and his belt. You drew the top of that strike zone up above the numbers. Using the true strike zone, many of those pitches (including #4 and #6) become true borderline pitches.

Clearly this umpire wasn't giving the "high strike." Did he call it differently for this PA by Thome than he did the rest of the game?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Apr 7, 2008 11:39 PM EDT 0 recs

Top of the strike zone

Tried to get the top of the strike zone at the midpoint between the top of the shoulder and the belt (using pixel counts). Note also that Thome is 6'4", but that the height of the "batter" on Gameday doesn't adjust based on the height of the player.

by Jon Marthaler on Apr 8, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

Yeah...

...the strike zone as it is drawn above is too high, especially if we are talking about how umpires actually call the zone. Belt-high pitches are seemingly borderline for some umps. I don't really have a problem with the balls/strikes in this PA. The first and sixth pitches were borderline, enough so that they pretty much could have gone either way.

by ubelmann on Apr 8, 2008 12:33 AM EDT up 0 recs

he might have called it a bit differently

that umpire was giving high strikes all day

http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/

by Aaron Fix on Apr 8, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

What's funny

is that Ozzie got tossed arguing some high strikes that got called against his hitters earlier in the game.

I was watching the White Sox feed, and hawk and DJ were pointing out the high strikes getting called all day. I don't have a problem with that at bat.

The real issue is that Neshek gets paid to get right handed hitters out, and he didn't. And the Twins can't score runs.

by Eric in Madison on Apr 8, 2008 8:31 AM EDT 0 recs

Actually

The pitches that Konerko and Dye both hit were out of the zone. Normally when righties chase on Neshek sliders they look stupid. Those two hits I thought were pretty lucky to hit empty spots on the field. Neshek knew he made good pitches on them too. The next righty he saw in Crede he tried to make him reach by throwing it way out of the zone. I think Anderson had a mound visit saying cut it out. Then he served up a meatball.

by TMW on Apr 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Beat me too it

I was just typing in the same comments about the "good guys" broadcast when I saw your post.

richman

by anderson800 on Apr 8, 2008 8:34 AM EDT 0 recs

Ozzie

I watched the game, and I thought Cuzzi tightened the strike zone for White Sox batters after Ozzie got ejected. The Thome at bat was the most obvious, but both Guerrier and Neshek pitched from behind and had to get more of the plate than they would otherwise need to to get strikes called. That led to a lot of hits, including the Crede homer.

Not making excuses for Neshek, though. He had nothing on his pitches yesterday. When he's on, he can throw it own the middle and they can't hit it.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 8, 2008 9:51 AM EDT 0 recs

Neshek

I remember it happening last year too, I think it was that Tampa game where Silva had a 2 hitter going and got sick or something, but Neshek came in with very little warm up. That game blew up in a hurry too. I only watched the game on gamecast so I wouldn't know, but was wondering if Neshek had to get warmed up in a hurry because Guerrier didn't really have a long struggle before he was pulled. Idk... just a thought. I still maintain this was a good loss today because it's got to wake our offense up and make them realize that we can't win all our games this year by 1 or 2 runs.

P.S. if Kelly Theiser reports again that a pitcher had a bad start because he didn't keep the ball down, I might have to kill myself.

by caseintheface on Apr 8, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up 0 recs

Wake Up Call?

I still maintain this was a good loss today because it's got to wake our offense up and make them realize that we can't win all our games this year by 1 or 2 runs.

I never played baseball, but I have played a lot of beer-league softball. Does it really matter that the team now realizes that they need to do better offensively? Don't they try all the time, and doesn't getting "emotional" or "intense" or "woken up" likely lead to getting "tight"? Isn't that exactly what a hitter doesn't want to do?

To extend the analogy a little; I'm a little guy and a solid singles hitter. In practice I can hit singles pitch after pitch after pitch, I'm lucky enough to have very good bat control. However, when the game starts, just as often as not, I get a little nervous at the plate (yes even in a beer-league, I know its dumb but I do) and I try too hard, swing too hard, and lose my bat control. Rather than calmly poking the ball between 1st and 2nd base, I swing too hard and line it to short, or pop it into center trying to hit a home run ( I have never hit a home run, and probably can't).

I think that a wake up call might do more harm than good if the batters feel pressured.

by montanatwinsfan on Apr 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

"Wake up call" isn't (IMO)

The premise that our hitters need a wake up call of some sort (not yours, I realize) strikes me as a bit silly.

There isn't a guy on this roster who didn't walk into Spring Training knowing this team needed more offensive production up & down the lineup. Unless they were in a coma, they knew the 2007 Twins offense was putrid, and that they were being asked to produce more offense without one of the most productive hitters (if not "the" most productive hitter) from 2007.

Even if they were ignorant of that, they were around during Spring Training - they watched a month of sputtering offense getting ready for this season. Again, absent a coma, they knew this team needed more from them than they'd produced. And that was before the anemic offense was against the Angels reinforced the point.

This group doesn't need to "try harder" or "wake up" - they need to get on base & hit.

by BD57 on Apr 8, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

Gardy's quick hook

I worried about Gardy taking Blackburn out an inning too early. His previous inning, he got three outs on nine pitches. He only had 90 pitches in, so send him out for another inning in the hopes of getting three more outs out of him. Then you can bring Guerrier in for the 7th and Neshek for the 8th. Hindsight is 20-20, I guess.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Apr 8, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up 0 recs

This, I agree with

I would have tried to get one more out of Blackburn--4 innings is a lot to ask from a bullpen to protect a 1 run lead.

by Eric in Madison on Apr 8, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

early hook

Seems like everyone's been getting the early hook thus far. Don't know that I disagree with it, really, the first two trips through the rotation.

formerly known in these parts as adamb

by ravenfly on Apr 8, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

Eh

Eh, those pitches don't look bad to me at all. HE wasn't giving the highest part of the zone, but he was giving a bit outside. A pitcher must adjust to this, as long as an ump is consistent.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver

by AdamOnFirst on Apr 8, 2008 2:37 PM EDT 0 recs