MIA: Delmon Young

by Jesse on May 12, 2008 1:19 PM EDT in Player Profiles

If you see any semblance of power, please contact the appropriate authorities immediately.

It's been going on all year, but the worrisome buzz is getting significantly louder. In a few days, the Twins will be one quarter of the way through their 2008 campaign, and one of the biggest off-season acquisitions is having a difficult time finding his stroke.

In 2005, Baseball America bestowed Delmon Young with the prestigious title of Minor League Player of the Year. Previous winners include Dwight Gooden, Frank Thomas, Tim Salmon, Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, Andruw Jones, Paul Konerko, Eric Chavez, Josh Beckett and Joe Mauer; it's an incredible honor, one that's been associated with many of the best names in baseball. He was just 19.

Fast forward three years and we're watching him in the major leagues. He's a big guy, described as "raw" and "toosly", but there's a discrepency between that potential ceiling and what we're seeing on the field. He looks the part, there's no denying that, but he's not walking the walk. Not yet.

While he's never been one to take a great deal of walks, he wasn't expected to come in and post a remarkable on-base percentage. But he was expected to make up for that in two ways: by being a good hitter, and by accruing extra-base hits. Instead we've been witness to one of the most aggressive hitters in the league who appears to have been zapped of his power. Nine walks, three doubles and a triple are the only non-singles to show in 146 plate appearances.

Were we correct to assume Delmon Young would find his power stroke in Minneapolis? Granted, he raked in 38 doubles with the Rays in '07, but he hasn't shown real power since double-A Montgomery in 2005. He's only 22, but there's a three year gap growing between who he is today, and who he was as Minor League Player of the Year.

This argument on the lack of Young's power could be counted in home runs and slugging percentage, but those metrics aren't as concerning to me as his isolated power. Keeping in mind that a rating of .200 is very good and the bottom rung of "productive" is around .150, there's a disturbing thrend:

Year	Level	Age	PA	ISO
2005	AA	19	375	.246
2005	AAA	19	234	.162
2006	AAA	20	370	.158
2006	MLB	20	131	.159
2007	MLB	21	682	.120
2008	MLB	22	146	.036

Young can be defended in a couple of different ways. First, he's encountered better pitching with each promotion, which has an effect on most players. Second, as I mentioned above he's only 22. Most players who face major league pitching at age 22 will struggle.

Yet we've been told, repeatedly, that Delmon Young isn't "most players". He's a special breed, we've been told, a top-flight prospect and a prime specimen that's easy to project into a perennial All Star. But it certainly seems that something has been lost in translation.

Hopefully it's just a slow start. Hopefully, he'll start making better contact (only 14% LD in '08), and his power stroke should ensue. Right now, my (unsolicited, amateur and outsider's) opinion is for Delmon Young to get back to basics: take a few strikes, don't be afraid to work deep counts in order to get your pitch. Give yourself time to see what a pitcher has to offer, and hopefully you'll get a few more strikes to swing at in the process of being a bit more selective. This doesn't look like a problem that you can just hack your way through.

That potential is still there. It's time to find it.

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Re:

When you’re repeatedly down in the count 0-2, you’re thinking defensive swing or drive the ball opposite field. I think it’s mainly just happenstance that he hasn’t driven a first pitch fastball or first pitch hanging breaking ball into the leftfield seats yet. Since he’s never ahead in the count, it’s hard to expect a lot of power.

Power will come, but it would help if he’d understand that game plate appearances and batting practice operate differently. He can’t expect to be swinging on every pitch.

by TMW on May 12, 2008 1:44 PM EDT 0 recs

I'm not willing to panick. Yet.

But, it is a definite curiosity, especially the lack of extra base power. He’s young, so he gets the benefit of the doubt. And, I think we can all admit that his defense-especially his arm- and his baserunning have been better than anticipated.

He looks and handles himself like a major league corner outfielder. He just hasn’t hit like one. Combined with Mauer’s lack of homers, and the silence of Mike Lamb, the Twins are hanging tough while running on just a couple cylinders.

It’s like they have been winning with the Flintstones offense: a couple of “yubba dubba dos” and a guy powering the whole contraption with his legs from below.

At some point, if this charade of contention is going to continue, Young, among others, will need to get their power engine going.

by Old Twins Cap on May 12, 2008 1:52 PM EDT 0 recs

The Silence of Mike Lamb

Nice line, OTC!

by by jiminy on May 12, 2008 2:27 PM EDT 0 recs

Blame the Twins

They’ve hammered the “take it the other way” approach into him so much he’s inside outing balls he should drive over the fence. Leave it to the coaches to turn another slugger into a slap hitter.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 12, 2008 2:32 PM EDT 0 recs

That would REALLY surprise me

Young came here with a reputation of hacking & he’s still hacking – while I’ve said it before, it seems his target is “1 pitch per at bat.”

While the Twins hitting philosophy (“take it the other way”) is an easy target, I see a guy who’s swinging at way too many “pitcher’s pitch” offerings.

I agree with Jesse – any count less than 2 strikes, Delmon ought to be taking pitcher’s pitches & looking for something he can hit hard.

by BD57 on May 12, 2008 8:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Not a pull hitter

Young was never a pull hitter on balls he has hit in the air. So the Twins and their perceived hitting approach has no effect on Young.

For some reason this David Ortiz hit-to-the-opposite-field thing gets applied to this day. That was a long time ago, and it was such a small part of the Ortiz story that it’s virtually meaningless in itself. Time passes. Let’s not remain stuck in 2002 with an story that’s way overblown anyway.

by Johnny Safron on May 13, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

I call bullshlt

Delmon wasn’t a dead pull hitter last year, but he pulled a lot of balls. You can look it up in the charts. He went through a stretch leading up to this post where he was inside-outing everything. He’s starting to pull a little more now. But he’s definitely looking to hit the ball the other way, which takes a lot of his power away. It is very difficult to consistently hit opposite field home runs. It’s practically impossible to hit a home run on an inside-out swing.

And this is not just about Ortiz. The Twins didn’t have a hitter hit 30 homers for 29 years! They have traditionally been at or near the bottom in home runs since Tom Kelly took over as manager. Their emphasis since Tony O was the hitting coach is to think the other way first. With the exception of a couple of guys who never listened to that (Lew, I’m talking to you), hitters have needed to adapt to that approach to get playing time. Ortiz is just the most vocal and successful former player on that issue. It is well documented with other players as well.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 14, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

I love it when you get all pissy

Delmon wasn’t a dead pull hitter last year, but he pulled a lot of balls. You can look it up in the charts

I suggest that is exactly what you should do.

Do you even watch baseball games? Young isn’t a pull hitter. Attributing that to Twins coaching is ridiculous.

by Johnny Safron on May 14, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Do you even watch baseball games?

No. I just sit at my computer in my mom’s basement and dream all this stuff up. You caught me.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 14, 2008 11:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

How is mom?

I see you don’t want to look at the spray chart. Afraid of what you will find? Delmon Young is a line-drive, spray hitter.

Although we all enjoy your shift to the basement and away from the discussion, let’s get back to that, shall we? You seem to prefer generalities, such as crediting Tony Oliva’s prowess as a hitting coach with Twins’ power production pre-Terry Crowley (Tony is a great guy – known him for 30 years – but he wasn’t a very good fundamental hitting instructor; Crowley was tremendous), a few specifics might help build your credibility.

Exactly which Twins used Oliva as a hitting coach?
Also, which of today’s Twins use Vavra as a hitting coach?
Do some of today’s Twins still go to Ulger for advice?
And what about Delmon Young? Is he a Vavra disciple?

These are yes-no questions, but feel free to discuss any in detail.

by Johnny Safron on May 15, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up 0 recs

My quote

I said: Delmon wasn’t a dead pull hitter last year, but he pulled a lot of balls. He went through a stretch leading up to this post where he was inside-outing everything. He’s starting to pull a little more now.

You said: Delmon Young is a line-drive, spray hitter.

I don’t see how these two statements conflict. I never said Delmon is a pull hitter. I just said that his approach last year was to pull the ball a little more than he has this year. I think that has something to do with working with Tony and Rod in spring training and Vavra during the year. You might disagree with what I said, but that’s hard to tell. Your approach seems to be to take my shades of gray, turn them into black and white and prove either the black or the white wrong.

As your friend TT used to say, you need to work on reading comprehension.

FWIW, I watch just about every game. Sometimes I have choir or I need to work later than normal and I miss a few innings. Sometimes during day games, I have to piece it together during work with Gameday and the radio. But much to the chagrin of my wife, I watch about 95 percent of the innings. I watched all the innings against the Rays last year. I saw a more pull-happy Delmon last year. That ball he hit for a single to right last night which was three inches from his shin is an example of inside-outing when a pull might have led to a more powerful stroke.

My definition of a spray hitter is someone who will hit the ball where it’s pitched. This is in contrast to a pull hitter like Gomez or a slap hitter like Harris. Delmon has turned himself into more of a slap hitter this year. I have to believe that has something to do with the instruction he gets from his coaching staff.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 15, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up 0 recs

One more thing

Although we all enjoy your shift to the basement and away from the discussion

This is the kind of stuff we moderators typically fuss about. It’s completely unnecessary, and in fact wrong. I know you don’t speak for everyone on this board when you say it, unless by “we all” you mean you, yourself and your other identities on this site.

Please refrain from inflamatory comments towards me or other posters on this site. I personally don’t mean you any ill will. I would appreciate it if you returned the courtesy. If you have something you want to discuss with me offline, you can always use my e-mail or my LinkedIn page, which are readily available to you. Do not use this board for that kind of stuff.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 15, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

You forgot this

This is the kind of stuff we moderators typically fuss about. It’s completely unnecessary

You might want to start fussing about a post entitled “I call bullshit.” Talk about completely unnecessary. And from a moderator yet.

Who is moderating the moderators?

by Johnny Safron on May 16, 2008 12:22 AM EDT up 0 recs

Have you never been in a friendly conversation...

...and someone said “I call bullshlt?” It’s a common phrase. Perhaps this is just a generational thing. But I sure didn’t mean anything by it and I apologize if that’s the way it came off.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 16, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up 0 recs

What you originally said was...

They’ve hammered the "take it the other way" approach into him so much he’s inside outing balls he should drive over the fence.

It’s clear that you are stating that going the other way won’t allow Young to hit home runs, and that he should be pulling the ball, and that he would be pulling the ball if the Twins hadn’t instructed him to go to the opposite field. I stated he is not a pull hitter, and that he has power to the opposite field. You preached “you can look it up in the charts,” yet don’t seem to follow your own advice. Spray charts support my contention.

And you have failed to address the question: which players on this team work with Vavra? It seems logical that if the Twins have a other-way philosophy that their hitting instructor is the conduit. Wouldn’t you agree? If say, Brendan Harris has someone from his past that he prefers for hitting tips, that person from his past certainly isn’t preaching the Twins’ philosophy. Ergo, we need to know which players are working with Vavra. This is where you jump to a conclusion that has zero support.

Even if a team tries to stamp each hitter with an identical approach to hitting, it has no chance to work if a hitter doesn’t work with the team’s hitting coach. So, if you can’t tell me if Young works with Vavra, then you are simply guessing. Even if Young does work with Vavra you are still guessing, because you clearly are not in the cage or out in rightfield as they go through their early work. But at least if you knew Young worked with Vavra you could create a hypothesis. But you don’t know that.

by Johnny Safron on May 16, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

Young works with Vavra

All hitters are required to work with their hitting coach. DickNBert said the other night that Delmon has been coming in for extra hitting work with Vavra of late.

I can give you spray charts, but let’s talk about actuals. According to Baseball Reference, he has only pulled balls in 17 at bats our of 126 ABs this year. That’s 13 % of the time. This is his line when he pulls the ball:

17 AB 10 H 0 2B 0 3B 0 HR 6 RBI .588 /.588 /.588/1.176

Last year, he pulled balls in 134 out of 513 at bats, or 26 %. This was his line last year on balls he pulled.

134 AB 60 H 14 2B 0 3B 2 HR 20 RBI .448/.444 /.597/1.041

In both years, he has hit the ball up the middle a lot. But all of the times when he tended to pull the ball last year and he is not this year have gone up the middle or the other way.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 16, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up 0 recs

batting coaches

That’s good. DickNBert are some substantiation. However, last season I called Terry Ryan and specifically asked him about whether all players used Vavra, and Ullger before that, as a resource and he told me they did not, and that this was not unique to the Twins.

As for comparing Young this year with last, “small sample size” regarding this year. Last year’s numbers are somewhat large, but they just support my original point that Young is not a pull hitter. You called bullshit, and replied Delmon wasn’t a dead pull hitter last year, but he pulled a lot of balls. I suppose “a lot of balls” carries different connotations, but 26 percent is not “a lot” to me. I would bet that’s well below average for at least half of the players in baseball.

The book on Delmon: slow starter, even in the minor leagues. When younger, loved to pull the ball, but as he got older – relative in that he’s 22 – he began to change that mindset.

So I am done here, save for the face I can’t for the life of me figure out how anyone could possibly know this:
They’ve hammered the "take it the other way" approach into him so much he’s inside outing balls he should drive over the fence, unless they were actually standing there with Vavra and Young when it occured.

by Johnny Safron on May 16, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up 0 recs

Often cited story

They’ve hammered the “take it the other way” approach into him so much he’s inside outing balls he should drive over the fence.

Three things.

The beat writers wrote stories about how much Rod and Tony and Vavra were working with Delmon in spring training. Some of that instruction was about taking balls the other way.
I have noticed him taking an inside out approach a lot.
The numbers indicate a 50 % drop in balls hit to left field off the bat of Delmon in 2008 vs. 2007.

Seems like a reasonable claim to me, given the evidence.

And I was calling bullshlt specifically on your claim that the whole power outage thing related to an organizational approach towards looking opposite field first is overblown. It wasn’t just Ortiz, it was the whole team for 30 years. I think there’s ample evidence that they don’t emphasize pulling enough, and that at least contributes to the low power numbers.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on May 16, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

Myths, and watching what you read

The Ortiz thing is more legend than truth, and 30 years is a long time. That’s 1978. I don’t accept either assertion. You are welcome to them, but I’ll call them a myth – or bullshit in your terminology – because that is what they are. Hitters do what comes naturally. It’s hard enough to hit in the major leagues – you can’t be making you way in professional ball trying to cast yourself in someone else’s image.

As for beat writers, well, they have to write something. Delmon might have worked with all the people you list, but that is not where his head or heart is. It’s with his family.

One example of using judgment on what you read is Michael Cuddyer in spring training. Gardy had to say something when they called after Hunter signed, so he said maybe Cuddyer would play some CF. The blogs lit up, sending people who like numbers scurrying for zone ratings and range factors. Folks just went on and on about Gardy’s idiocy. When I read that quote about Cuddyer, I laughed. I thought: if we so much as see Cuddyer shagging flies in CF at 10 a.m. on March 15 it will be a surprise.

Cuddyer never played an inning in CF this spring.

by Johnny Safron on May 17, 2008 12:13 AM EDT up 0 recs

Stance maybe?

I look at his stance sometimes and it just looks like he’s set up to punch it the other way. I know it’s probably nothing but maybe if he stood up more and opened up a little bit, it would set him up to yank a couple of balls into left field. I mean all you have to do is drive the ball in the dome, you don’t necessarily have to get raindrops like Monroe to clear the short left field fence in the dome.

Gardenhire's major league career: Banjo hitting, futility infielder who couldn't lick it.
Rick Anderson's major league career: Strikethrower who never made it happen his sub 90's fastball.
Really gives a new definition to living vicariously through other people, don't it?

by caseintheface on May 12, 2008 4:20 PM EDT 0 recs

He

He is not Vladimir Guerrero. He WILL NOT become anything like his “upside” if he doesn’t learn some discipline.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on May 12, 2008 5:04 PM EDT 0 recs