Craig Monroe
I guess its still early, but what do you guys think...still worth keeping around or ditch him
Has your opinion changed since spring training? Has Gardy used him right?
yes many questions here...but I was just wondering. He seemed to have been batted around like a pinata during spring training, but now that the season has started, that has calmed down.
Myself, I guess I have no real opinion about him. He is on the roster, he seems to fit in. good enough for me.
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As a fourth outfielder...
...and occasional DH (which is mostly what he’s been used for), I don’t have a problem with him. I got a little worried at the beginning of the season that maybe he’d fallen over a cliff and was totally done, but I think he can at least be replacement level or so, and we’ve already paid him his money, so dumping him doesn’t really help. And I don’t see any point in bringing up Span or Pridie to be the 4th OF on the major league roster in his place. I didn’t like the price we paid to acquire him, but that’s a different story.
by ubelmann on May 5, 2008 4:02 AM EDT 0 recs
Agreed
He is overpaid, but given that he is on the team now, he fills a void as a 4th OF who can play some CF, and offers some pop off the bench or against lefties.
by Diggity Dino on
May 5, 2008 8:35 AM EDT
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If his salary wasn't a factor
I’d actually be pretty pleased. He’s starting to swing well, and he plays with a lot of fire. I don’t mind seeing one of the older guys getting the kids riled up now and then.
Unfortunately, though, we always have to contend with the silly amount they decided to pay him.
by Neil on
May 5, 2008 10:48 AM EDT
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Without him
We have only Cuddyer and apparently Harris to rely on power from the right side. So with him our power goes from totally pathetic to pathetic. There’s some value in that for what he’s making, I suppose.
by TMW on May 5, 2008 11:08 AM EDT 0 recs
Other roster options
I don’t mind him, as long as his budget hit doesn’t restrict the Twins’ ability to sign draft choices and international players. But there are other options to explore as the season goes along.
- Jason Pridie: Monroe is seriously limited in the outfield. His legs are no longer limber, and he never was a fast runner. Yesterday, Gladden said he looked like “he had a piano on his back” as he tried to leg out a ground ball. That was after one day of starting in center field. If Gomez can’t go for more than a couple of days, Punto is the next option. And I’m not pleased with that. I’d rather have a real outfielder out there. Pridie fills the bill better than Span, IMO.
- Matt Macri/Luke Hughes: It would be nice to have a right-handed platoon with some power at third. I like Tolbert over there, but if you think we don’t have any right handed hitting power hitters in the minors, you’re not looking hard enough.
All this means that Monroe is probably expendable at some point in the year, when the Twins deem that a roster including a fourth outfielder and a right handed platoon at third is a better option overall. Hopefully, Monroe can continue to hit in the interim to demonstrate his value to teams looking for right handed power down the stretch.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on May 5, 2008 12:21 PM EDT 0 recs
The way he is being used now...
is the best way to make up a horrible mistake. He is a great OF in a pinch who gives you a threat of power off the bench. Really they need to be showcasing him for a trade more than anything else. Stick to only starting him against lefties and give him a chance to have a .250 avg with 10 dongs at the break. Get some swag back for the man if possible.
Relax, all right? Don't try to strike everybody out. Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.
Crash Davis
by Terry Ryan Jr on May 5, 2008 5:24 PM EDT 0 recs
He's not going anywhere
Right now on this roster he is:
T1 for RH home runs
2nd in SA
3rd in OPS
T5 RBI
7 in OBP
Certainly, that OPS surprises many Twins’ fans.
They are not going to ever replace him with a lefty, so Pirdie is out. (He’s just a 4A player anyway. Plenty of Jason Pridies in OB.) Span is out. Those are easy to figure. They aren’t going to bring up some kid who has never taken a swing in the big leagues. That’s easy to figure.
Barring injury, Monroe is here to stay. He’s a vast improvement over Jason Tyner. Your fourth outfielder has to be able to put the ball over the fence.
by Johnny Safron on May 5, 2008 6:38 PM EDT 0 recs
heh
They aren’t going to bring up some kid who has never taken a swing in the big leagues.
Gotta do it sometime, ne? Be hard to keep a major league team functioning otherwise ;)
Sorry, I couldn’t resist.
formerly known in these parts as adamb
by ravenfly on
May 5, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
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If you are generalizing, sure
But here, I am not generalizing. The remark is specifically about the Twins and Pridie, not any team and any kid who hasn’t taken a swing in the major leagues. The Twins brought up Span, and he hadn’t any big-league at-bats, but he’s a better player the Pridie, and Cuddyer was hurt.
Pridie is on course to maybe play a little somewhere, sometime, as a fifth outfielder. But teams in the Twins situation (first place, plenty of healthy outfielders, plenty of healthy AAA outfielders) don’t promote 24-year-old ,career-minor-league, light-hitting outfielders with strike zone judgment that is stagnant at best, and who have fewer than 400 AAA at-bats.
by Johnny Safron on
May 5, 2008 9:37 PM EDT
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I disagree
And it’s not just me. BA’s John Manuel thinks he’s better than a fourth outfielder. You can scoff at my assessment all you want, but you’d have to be pretty arrogant to completely discount what the editor of BA says. He was pretty smart about Blackburn, that’s for sure.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on
May 5, 2008 10:25 PM EDT
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Lots of people liked Blackburn
Not that it matters. There’s no cause-effect here. So he liked Blackburn. So did I.That doesn’t make him right about Pridie. Or me right about Pridie.
I picked NC State to win the ‘83 men’s NCAA basketball tourney. That was a fairly rare choice that year. Despite that, I didn’t pick Georgetown the next year. I don’t know Manuel, I don’t read BA anymore, and I have no reason to put any credence in his guess.
I’ve seen enough of Pridie to know what I think of him. Too many fans rely on some guy they never met to make assessments of players for them. If you know what you’re watching you can figure it out yourself. Relying on someone else to tell you is the old give a man a fish and he’s got one meal, teach him to fish and he’s got all the meals he needs. What’s more, BA’s history on picking top prospects is no better than that of any knowledgeable follower of the game. Haul out their lists of Top Prospects from 10 years ago and it’s good for a laugh. Even Bill James blew plenty of guesses on prospects, and Manuel is certainly no different.
by Johnny Safron on
May 5, 2008 10:45 PM EDT
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Where did you see him?
John Manuel saw Jason Pridie personally 12 times last year in AAA. I’m inclined to believe him, unless you can somehow tell me that you’ve seen him more than a couple of times in the last year. I say in the last year, because he’s truned a corner, much like Blackburn last year. This is what he told Seth Stoh’s in January.
I like Pridie a lot as a player and I kind of went more on my own eye and instincts on him than any player that I’ve ranked before. He played in Triple-A Durham obviously and our BA offices are down the street from the park. Also, I did about a dozen Bulls games on TV this year as a color analyst so I got to see him a lot and talked to IL coaches and scouts about him, and he’s just impressive to see play. He is a cheap five-tool guy-not a guy who blows you away but a guy without a huge weakness, or a below-average tool, in any way. His biggest weakness is that he’s an aggressive hitter who doesn’t walk a lot, career .327 OBP, but he will hit for average and I believe in his power. Everything he does, he does easy, including hitting with surprising power to the opposite field. He’s more of a six or seven-hole hitter unless he’s hitting for average to hit 2-hole, where he’s best suited in terms of tools. I really believe in him as a prospect, so we’ll see how good my scouting eye is.
Speaking of Blackburn, most rating systems didn’t even have him in the Twins top 20. Manuel rated him first because he watched him pitch six times in AAA and twice in the Fall League.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on
May 6, 2008 8:57 AM EDT
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Where did YOU see him?
I’m not about to put some BA writer up on a pedestal. I’m comfortable that my experience and judgment is just as good if not better, and even if it’s not I’d rather be wrong with my own opinion than right with someone else’s.
Scouting through Google just gets you someone else’s opinion.
by Johnny Safron on
May 6, 2008 7:23 PM EDT
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I've only seen him on TV
What I saw, I liked. He’s real smooth and easy. He’s got a nice swing. He’s got a live body and a surprisingly strong arm. I’ll take him over Span, though I understand he’s behind Span on the depth chart.
But, ya know, when all you’ll talk about is scouting and it’s your word against John Manuel, I’ll take John Manuel. Nothing personal. But some anonymous blog commenter against the editor of the most respected baseball information service is not a close call.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on
May 6, 2008 8:53 PM EDT
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TV's nice, but
“Most respected baseball information source.”
You make that statement as though it’s definitive. You’re one blogger and you get one opinion. You don’t speak for anyone else (although you’re doing a pretty good job of speaking for John.) Plenty of knowledgeable fans would disagree about BA. And even if 100,000,000 million of 100,000,000 million fans agreed with you, it would still just mean that BA was considered to be the most respected source for fans. There are lots of other sources out there that fans don’t have access to. Which is a very good reason for them to learn to fish and figure it out for themselves.
But it’s not any concern to me whose word anyone treasures. I trust my own eyes. and I don’t have to impress anyone. As I said, I’d rather be right with my opinion than wrong – or even right – with someone else’s. Incidentally: Spring 2007. John was in love with Perkins and Casilla. There are just two he expected to stand out in ‘07. Here it is ‘08 and neither was terribly impressive in even spring training. If he were infallible at this, he’d be the first. We’re still waiting for that guy.
by Johnny Safron on
May 6, 2008 10:44 PM EDT
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I never said he was infalible
I just happen to trust him more than the anonymous blogger. Feel free to disagree. I couldn’t care less. I’m not trying to convince you. I just like to give reasons for my opinions beyond my own eyes. You’re free to withhold those reasons. No bother. I’m not even going to try to convince you to agree to disagree.
I was just explaining why I think Pridie will be a good fourth outfielder at some point, and why his presence on the roster would improve our outfield defense on those days when one of the other outfielders needs a day off. You disagree. Whatever.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on
May 7, 2008 9:10 AM EDT
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I think Monroe is doing great...
...and I wouldn’t be surprised to see him start stealing at-bats from Kubel fairly soon now.
Anybody else notice that Kubel’s season line is now sitting at .245/660?
by dwintheiser on May 5, 2008 7:25 PM EDT 0 recs
He doesn't bring much variety to the game
He’s a young, platoon DH - no one’s goal when they are playing in high school - whose OBP this year is helped by some bloop hits. He’s been worse than his numbers – one nice game a month ago distorts a modest season. He was never more than adequate in the field even before he got hurt. The Twins have taken the injury and his limitations into account and brought him along at a pace that has been beneficial to him, and it looked like they might be rewarded given his showing after last year’s All-Star break. But his OPS is a steady, downward line this season. He’s going to have to show more against off-speed stuff, and maybe he’s finally mature enough to adjust. We will see. He seems to get a fire under his butt at 0-1, for instance, but if a pitcher can get past that he’s going to win the battle almost always because the pitcher will give Kubel junk. He’s a real odd guy who makes an argument for clutch hitting. This year, he has come through in some clutch situations, but he’s not going to start a rally for you and seems like he can’t even get interested in batting in most other game situations. That probably sounds good to novice fans, but it’s not. You see that and wonder if he just doesn’t care much of the time.
by Johnny Safron on
May 5, 2008 9:58 PM EDT
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Have I heard this story before?
Left-handed hitter
26 years old
Pegged as a platoon player
Limited defensively
Perceived to be lazy
Questions about his motivation
Nah, surely no one like that has ever been with the Twins in the past. They’d probably just get rid of him the first chance they got, since he brings so little to the table.
by ubelmann on
May 6, 2008 1:03 AM EDT
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If he's Ortiz, he better start to produce
Guess you heard what you wanted to there and missed the part about “finally mature enough to adjust.” Which is Kubel’s charge this year.
It’s time for Kubel to produce, and perhaps he will. But if he does it will not have anything to do with the fact David Ortiz was born. There is zero cause-effect here. Just because the Twins made a mistake with Ortiz has no bearing whatsoever on Kubel, and anyone who thinks otherwise doesn’t understand either the world or baseball.
There have been 1,000 young, wild lefties since Koufax who, in their early days, have been compared to him. “You know, Koufax was wild when he was young.” And since then, how many two-pitch lefties who were wild in the minor leagues have become Sandy Koufax? What one player did has no effect on another, no matter how often fans like to invoke that posiiton.
It’s time for Twins’ fans who think Kubel is something special to realize that his injury is far enough behind him that he can’t use that as an excuse, and that he has his chance now. A golden one. He needs to take advantage of it. Even if he does, he’s not damn likely to be David Ortiz, who showed a helluva lot more at the plate by 26 than Kubel has – and I am not comparing production here.
by Johnny Safron on May 6, 2008 8:29 AM EDT 0 recs
Kubel doesn't need to be Ortiz...
...to earn his salary. And he’s not going to be as good as Ortiz, either. But all of the complaints about Kubel not seeming motivated enough seem rather lame to me. We heard the same stuff about Morneau when he was in a funk back in 2005. You may question Kubel’s desire, but I question your ability to measure Kubel’s desire.
And I, for one, don’t think Kubel is anything special—I just think he can be a league average hitter, maybe slightly better, but he can do it cheaply for the next 2-3 years and be the best DH option the Twins have had in quite some time. He’s going to have slumps lik e he did in April, but I’m not worried any more about Kubel’s demeanor than I am worried about all of Joe Nathan’s nervous tics when he’s on the mound in the 9th.
by ubelmann on
May 6, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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Craig has looked better at the plate in the past couple weeks. I’ll give him more time, but if he doesn’t hit consistently, I’d like to see a young guy get the roster spot.
"Don't take anything for granted, because tomorrow is not promised to any of us."
by Twins Territory on May 6, 2008 5:20 PM EDT 0 recs
If it's raining in Minneapolis, it must be raining in St. Paul
But all of the complaints about Kubel not seeming motivated enough seem rather lame to me. We heard the same stuff about Morneau when he was in a funk back in 2005.
Yet repeatedly making random comparisons in an effort to make a point doesn’t seem lame to you? Considering yesterday’s news on Jacque Jones, I am surprised that you are not criticizing the Tigers. After all, Jones is a left-handed, San Diego-born player, so he must be like Ted Williams.
by Johnny Safron on May 6, 2008 7:33 PM EDT 0 recs
That's totally what I was doing
Way to catch me on that. And that was exactly the next comment I was going to make. You read me just like you can read ballplayers.
I wonder, you seem to be pretty good at judging a player’s desire. Could you maybe update us weekly on the desire levels of all the players on the team? Sort of a “whites of their eyes” index? I would especially like to know which players have the most fire under their butt on 2-2 counts vs. left-handed pitching, and who leads the league in butt-fire, anyway? And which guys are the least interested in starting a rally when the game score difference is more than three runs?
And when Kubel was hitting great at the end of last season, how was his fire then? Totally stoked? Pitchers were probably just throwing him all fastballs, since major league pitchers do that a lot. Or maybe he just worked that magical 0-1 count every time he stepped to the plate.
My point, which I have now tried to make without comparing Kubel to anyone else, so as not to offend your delicate sensibilities, is that we hear this kind of crap about players all the time, but mostly it has jack and squat to do with how they perform on the field in the future. It’s not that a player’s mood or emotions can’t affect his play, though, it’s that you can’t judge his emotions from where you’re sitting, and for that matter, most of the time people let a player’s results dictate their impression of his emotions.
So when Kubel’s hitting, no one complains about his attitude or effort. And when he’s not hitting, I hear that he’s disinterested and lazy. But most of the time, slumps are just slumps, and it’s not about the attitude, the effort, or the interest level-it’s just that hitters don’t come neatly packaged with .28 hits per at-bat, and there are bound to be ups and downs-even ups and downs that happen for no good reason at all.
[And for the record, should the record matter at all, last year when the score margin was 4 runs or more, Kubel hit .312/.341/.584. This year, with the score margin 4 runs or more, Kubel has hit just .133/.133/.133. So is it really that he just stopped caring about hitting in those situations, or that he’s had 15 at-bats in those situations so far this year and you can’t figure out anything about a player over 15 at-bats?]
by ubelmann on
May 7, 2008 1:41 AM EDT
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