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Who's to blame, veterans or youngsters?

The conventional wisdom, spouted incessantly by DickNBert, is that the Twins are struggling this year because they're so young. According to Bert, young players are more prone to mistakes, and, more often than not, these mistakes cost the team ballgames. While this makes sense, I'm not so sure it's right. There are four reasons why it's not entirely true:

Mike Lamb Looking for an offensive scapegoat? Look no further. Lamb is easily the biggest disappointment of this season. He had one good stretch when we hoped he would turn a corner. But then he went into the tank. His line (.225/.262/.305) is comparable to Punto's last year, which was why we got Lamb this year. But his defense is much worse.

Fortunately, the Twins are adjusting their personnel to match his struggles. Matt Macri is now taking every start against lefties. And after Brian Buscher gets up here today, he'll start taking some starts against right handers. If Lamb--the oldest position player on the team--doesn't start hitting, he'll be relegated to a bench role, used mostly as a pinch hitter.

Juan Rincon The longest tenured pitcher on the Twins staff has been just putrid this year. Inexplicably, Gardenhire let him try to pitch his way into form in close games for the first two plus months of the season. This cost the Twins several games, though Rincon did not take the loss in many of them for two reasons: First, he came into a lot of one- and two-run games when the Twins were behind and proceeded to put the game out of reach for the opposition. Second, when he came into games with runners on base, he let all 9 of them score, leading to additional losses for starters such as Nick Blackburn.

Coming into the year, the bullpen was supposed to be the strength of this team. Pat Neshek got hurt, leaving a big hole that they tried to let Rincon fill. He has failed miserably. It is no exaggeration to say that 90 percent of the bullpen's failures are on Juan Rincon. He has singlehandedly turned a solid unit into a disaster. He will be DFAd today to make room for Buscher. He'll probably reject the assignment to become a free agent. Good luck in the Mexican League Juanie.

Adam Everett This guy was supposed to soften the blow for losing Jason Bartlett in the Delmon Young trade. Unfortunately, he's been hurt most of the year. That's the trouble with aging veterans, they're more injury prone. When he's tried to play with the injury, he's been really bad. He appears to have lost at least a step after breaking a leg last year. And his arm is just a noodle. Nobody expected Bartlett's bat out of Everett, but we did expect him to catch the ball. He hasn't,and the shortstop position has been a revolving door all year. For a sinker-ball staff, that's not a good thing.

Livan Hernandez We can blame Twins management for expecting this guy to be the staff ace. I'll be honest, even with his recent struggles, he's exceeded my expectations this year. But that's not saying much. I expected him to be a fifth starter. Whatever he is, he's not an ace. An ace is supposed to stop losing streaks. Livan has perpatuated them. I found it laughable that Bert would blame the young pitchers like Blackburn and just ignore that Livan has been really bad lately, to the point that many of us are calling for Liriano (a youngster) to replace him.

Those are the four biggest disappointments of this year. And they're all veterans. So Bert, how can you blame the youngsters constantly? They're the ones making the plays that lead to improbable victories, or putting the team in a position to win. Sure they make mistakes, but they make more plays than veterans can even with their mistakes.

 

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Michael Cuddyer, 659 OPS

Boof Bonser, 6.19 ERA (he’s been around long enough to ‘not’ make rookie mistakes)

by BD57 on Jun 12, 2008 3:16 PM EDT   0 recs

Very Tought Call to whether it would have been Rincon or Bonser, i guess Bill Smith thought that Bonser could be Coached and Rincon Couldnt i guess, Thank God Breslow wasnt the one DFA’d

by Tony_O on Jun 12, 2008 4:47 PM EDT   0 recs

Bonser vs Rincon

Wow, not a tough call at all. In the last seven days, opponents are hitting like this against Rincon:

.471 /.500/1.118/1.618

It doesn’t get much better over the last 14 days:

.481/.517/ .926/1.443

Or even the last 28 days:

.389 /.492 /.648/1.140

His ERA is actually better than it should be. He’s 9 for nine in allowing inherited runners to score. If memory serves, four of those runners were Bonsers. For reference, this is how hitters have done the last 28 days against Bonser:

.315 /.371 /.506 /.877

Still not good. But not in Juan’s league. Also, Bonser has a chance to right the ship, Rincon doesn’t. Inexplicably, they gave him opportunities to pitch his way through this in pressure situations and he just kept getting worse.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 12, 2008 5:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Good post

Although sometimes it is hard to distinguish between players doing stupid shit and players who are just bad. This might be more of a list of has-beens.

Am I making this up or did Gardy send RIncon out against the White Sox to force Smith to drop him?

by wcooley on Jun 12, 2008 5:40 PM EDT   0 recs

I think you're right, kind of

Gardy’s been protecting Rincon in the press (he was saying all kinds of nice things about him in an AP article the other day), so my guess is that it was indeed an attempt to affect the decision, but with the idea that there would be either a glimmer of hope or something that another team might want to trade for, rather than the disaster that ended up happening.

Does anyone know which of the Twins’ starting pitchers have options? That could come into play again if the Twins want to bring Liriano up sometime.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Jun 12, 2008 5:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know what Gardy was thinking

The only thing I can think of is Juan was one of his boys and he just could not fathom that he was as bad as this. So he was delusional and actually thought he’d hold the Twins in tight games. It was just painful to watch. I can’t remember a more blatant mismanagement of talent on Gardy’s part. Well, there was the time he failed to pinch run for LeCroy on a bunt play in a tie game… In this case, he did the equivalent of that seven times in the last two weeks! Only once in his last eight appearences did Gardy put him in in a blowout. They were all within four runs, and quickly became blowouts with Rincon’s help. I mean, those numbers are just shocking. A batting practice pitcher could have done better.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 12, 2008 6:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

History never repeats itself?

I agree 2000%. I think that it is difficult for Gardy to go against the veteran player. It’s like he still has the Rincon of 2004 in his brain. In some respects, I garner that this was the very reason we still had Rincon on the roster. We could have gotten something for him if we had tried to dump him a couple of years back, but now, we simpy had to do a salary dump….sound familiar?

The disease of veteranitis acidstomachis is so advanced in Gardy that it has invaded his brain. I don’t really see Gardy as being clever enough to concoct a plan whereby Rincon is thrown into close games in the hopes that Rincon’s trade value would rise (unless that order came from above, which is possible). Personally, I think he really thought Rincon was on the verge of snapping back to 2004 form, and that he would soon become a solid member of bullpen. This is history replaying itself again and again. (Recall, that he lets LNP hit during crucial spots in the game (sometimes even using him as a PH), despite a record of continued failure to come through.) Gardy has his good points, but the manner in which he handles players in game situations has always baffled me.

This is a great post. I couldn’t have said it better myself. (And, I am starting to think about eating my own plate of crow about Lamb, who I have defended relentlessly until now. Lamb and crow together? Hmmm, I better use some Famous Dave’s Devil’s Spit to improve the taste.)

"I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. See, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it . . ."

by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Jun 12, 2008 10:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Twins

were trying to move Rincon. Its hard to move a player when you dont even trust him yourself. So you send Rincon out and hope for the best.

by guinness junky on Jun 13, 2008 12:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Official Rincon News

From the Twins’ website. According to the article, Juan said yesterday that he would elect to become a free agent rather than go to AAA (which is not at all surprising).

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Jun 12, 2008 5:54 PM EDT   0 recs

Time to cut bait and rebuild

Whatever else, the Twins will not win the World Series this year. Can they compete for the division? Maybe. But only if the Sox implode, the Indians continue to send players to the DL and the Tigers realize they aren’t that good.

In any case, the Twins should focus on next year by giving starts and innings to their best young pitchers. And the problem right now really is their pitching. How the hell did they move up in the Runs Scored column?

by Old Twins Cap on Jun 12, 2008 10:13 PM EDT   0 recs

I agree

But they need to find a way to get value for Hernandez. Not much, but the way he’s pitching, now one would take him if we paid them above and beyond his salary.

by snolls on Jun 12, 2008 10:26 PM EDT   0 recs

No blame.

Nobody is to blame. The team isn’t very good. It’s a rebuilding year and they’ll be very, very lucky to finish within 5 games of .500.

by neide on Jun 13, 2008 11:39 AM EDT   0 recs

We have a winner

Some of the old guys are bad, some of the young guys are bad—it’s not an age thing, it’s an overall roster thing.

Also, we can say that this is a rebuilding thing, but we have a lot of the same problems (namely 3B, SS, and LF) that we had at the beginning of 2006. At some point, I think it is legitimate to question how well the front office can fill positions where the farm system doesn’t give us obvious answers.

by ubelmann on Jun 13, 2008 2:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fair enough

Then why does Bert constantly claim that it’s just because of the “youngsters” and their mistakes? My point is the veterans are at least as much to blame as the youngsters. And relatively speaking, the veterans have done much worse than we expected, whereas the youngsters have done about what we expected, or slightly better (e.g. Casilla).

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 13, 2008 5:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Bert can play his blame game all he wants...

...I don’t care anymore. The mute button is my friend.

by ubelmann on Jun 13, 2008 8:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

LF

Please explain to me how Delmon Young is a problem, especially in comparison to Shannon Stewart, RonDL White, etc.

by joeiscool12 on Jun 13, 2008 10:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Garza

Young is fantastic relative to Stewart, RonDL, Tyner, Ford, etc. The thing is, that we gave up Garza and Bartlett for him. Not to start this discussion again, but AS OF YET, he hasn’t proven himself worth a top prospect pitcher and a dependable shortstop.

Again, he’s hitting better, and may find the power stroke again. He just isn’t on pace for the .300, 25 HR we were hoping for.

by snolls on Jun 13, 2008 11:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

All-Star team, here they come

Garza and Bartlett are really lighting up the Florida sky.

Garza is 4-3 with 44 SO and 27 BB in 70 IP. Last year he fanned 67 in 83, so unless he whiffs 23 batters in the next 13 innings he’s way off that pace. His 4.4 ERA is above league average. He went 9 1/3 in his last two starts and threw 174 pitches. In one of his starts this year he didn’t complete three, and threw 70 pitches. He three 77 through 4 IP in his last outing.

Bartlett’s batting .236 with 5 extra-base hits in 232 PAs. His OPS is 30 points below his career average. In 208 fewer ABs, the Twins’ pitching staff this year is just 10 RBI behind Bartlett.

by Johnny Safron on Jun 14, 2008 12:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh --

Last year, Rondell White needed 109 ABs to hit 4 HRs and drive in 20. Delmon has needed 245 to drive in 20, and he’s still 3 HRs short.

At the height of his game, White was the better outfielder. Yeah, Young is young, but he has got his work cut out for him to finish his career as a better fielder than White.

by Johnny Safron on Jun 14, 2008 12:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Everyone involved with that trade (on both sides) has sucked so far...

Long-term, I hope that Delmon turns out to be good, but because he’s so young, it could take him an awfully long time to turn out to be anything decent. Because right now, he’s hitting like a 4th outfielder. I think it’s safe to say that the Twins expected Delmon to hit better than this so far this year, but it is still possible that they’ll get the better end of the deal. Right now, though, that trade just looks like crap for crap.

by ubelmann on Jun 14, 2008 3:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Fantastic?

Young is fantastic relative to Stewart, RonDL, Tyner, Ford, etc.

Not compared to all of those guys. Checking out each player’s OPS+ for various seasons:

89 - Lew Ford ‘05
88 - Shannon Stewart ‘06
87 - Shannon Stewart ‘05
86 - Delmon Young ‘08
85 - Jason Tyner ‘07
84 - Jason Tyner ‘06
82 - Lew Ford ‘07
66 - Rondell ‘06 (though he did have a monster second half when he was healthy)
57 - Lew Ford ‘06
48 - Rondell ‘07

So over Rondell, sure, that guy was an out machine when he was with the Twins. But Young so far has essentially matched the production of a fourth outfielder (Tyner) and a guy playing through injury (Stewart.)

And people manage to put down Lew Ford nearly every time they get the chance, but Ford’s career OPS+ is 96 to Delmon’s 92. (And in my book, Ford was the better defender because he could cover more ground than Delmon can.)

Delmon’s young, so if we’re talking about potential, he’s still got time to develop. But if we’re talking about what he’s actually done so far, it hasn’t been fantastic in any way.

by ubelmann on Jun 14, 2008 3:45 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Health is a line in the sand

Thousands and thousands of players try to make it to the majors and stick annually. Most of them can’t hack it talent-wise, and many who are talented enough to make it and stick get hurt. If you aren’t playing, you aren’t producing, and that was Rondell White’s problem most of his career. It was amplified as a Twin. People kept taking a chance on him rather than some AAA player because he was a talented player when healthy. So far, Delmon Young is just healthy.

by Johnny Safron on Jun 14, 2008 12:28 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I wouldn't totally dismiss Delmon's ability to stay healthy

I don’t necessarily disagree with you here. Rondell White had a very good career and the two seasons he was here, his performance was clearly affected by his health. (Of course, given the check that he wrote to Kirk Radomski for “stuff” it is perhaps difficult to say how much of that career was talent and how much of it was “stuff.”) Both times the Twins signed White, I thought it was a reasonable gamble because if he was healthy, he could produce.

So far, Delmon has been nothing special (I would tend to use the term “replacement level” as long as that doesn’t ruffle too many feathers), but being able to stay healthy is definitely an asset in a player. For instance, last night, Michael Cuddyer (who really seems to get injured a lot—and winds up playing through nagging injuries that affect his performance a lot) had to leave the game, but Delmon was available because, well, he’s always been available.

If Delmon improves at the plate, which I completely agree is not guaranteed, then that health could turn out to be a big point in his advantage.

(On an almost totally unrelated note: The White/Young comparison is kind of interesting, as Rondell struggled in his age 21 season much the same way that Delmon has struggled in his age 21/22 seasons. White broke camp with the Expos for his age 22 season, but was hitting .278/.278/.333 on April 18th and didn’t get regular playing time again until about June 28th, and he hit .301/.386/.534 for the rest of the season.)

by ubelmann on Jun 14, 2008 1:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

We might want to dismiss Delmon's ability to hold a job

I think it’s clear most of Rondell’s career was talent. The steroids issue is going to hang over a lot of players and jaundice plenty of careers, but White emerged from the minor leagues as much of a surefire bet as any scout could imagine. Many felt “the sky is the limit.” And for a guy so injury-prone, my thought would be the stay away from steroids: body parts fell off him from an early age. Steroids couldn’t possibly help. Hell, he injured his spleen diving for a ball in ‘96, for crissakes. If it was a body part, White eventually went on the DL for injuring it.

He did “suddenly” hit nearly 30 home runs at age 25, but he stayed healthy that year and played in more than 150 games, a career high.

And the reason he did not come on until late in the 1994 season you mention is that he was blocked by an outfield of Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom and Moises Alou, each of whom was at the primo age of 27. Then baseball had a labor impasse.

The next spring, the Expos traded Marquis, yet it still wasn’t until they quickly turned around and traded one of the players they acquired in that deal, Robert Kelly, that White found a regular job.

That’s a different story than a young Delmon, who had no one to beat out for a daily job. The Delmon Young story could soon could be the opposite of the Rondell White story, with Delmon playing himself out of a starting spot and into a platoon.

by Johnny Safron on Jun 15, 2008 12:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Could happen

Though if he continues to get three hits a night and Craig Monroe continues to suck, I doubt it.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2008 10:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

How's Denard Span's finger?

Must be coming along pretty well.

Span seems to listen. We all know that three hits a night isn’t something any big-leaguer does, so we all know that won’t keep Young in the lineup, as he’s a person who has had 6 three-hit games this entire year. In other words: a few shekels in a big-money town.

Young is on a 54-RBI pace. That’s the stat you want. They didn’t bring him in to drive in runs at a pace below that of Mike Lamb. That’s your bottom line stat.

Delmon better power up or get used to having a good seat to watch big-league ballgames.

by Johnny Safron on Jun 15, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Span

I think he’s a couple of days away from being able to play. Then we’ll see. Until last August, the story was Span was not very coachable. Perhaps he’s turned a corner. But I want to see it for a while before I say he’s ready to unseat a starter at the major league level.

Pridie should be a cautionary tale. In the middle of spring training, everyone from LEN3 to AdamOnFirst thought he was the best center fielder in the system. According to these folks, he had turned a corner and was the most coachable, polished player of the three candidates. He was also the first one cut. And as you have pointed out, he has been dreadful since going down to Rochester. The moral of the story: Three months of good play at AAA following several years of mediocre play is not enough to develop much confidence in a player.

I remain skeptical of Span. Talk to meafter the All-Star break. If Delmon is still hitting like this and Span picks up where he left off when he broke his finger and holds it there for a month, I could see at least platooning them (and DFAing Craig Monroe to make room for Span). That would give Span two thirds of the at bats in left and keep Delmon in the mix in case he gets hot.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2008 10:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Casilla passed Delmon...

...in ‘08 RBI this week. That’s really bad.

As for LEN3, Baseball America, and whomever else, the moral of the story is I like to draw my own conclusions based on what I see.

And I’m not saying Span is going to light the heavens on fire, I’m saying it’s pretty darn easy to see Delmon is a bat-length from losing a full-time job. I see today he couldn’t crack the “NL” starting lineup, and Kubel’s home run—what was that? 10? isn’t going to help Delmon any.

by Johnny Safron on Jun 16, 2008 12:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Casilla

He’s been an RBI machine since his call-up. He’s already passed Harris, he’s one behind Gomez and four behind Mauer. I don’t think there’s any disgrace in getting passed by a guy who’s averaging more than two RBIs every three games.

Kubel hit four homers on the road trip. In this case, Gardy played the hot hand.

I get it. You don’t think Delmon will be a good major leaguer, at least not for a while. And he will soon end up on the bench if he doesn’t pick it up. I agree with that. I’m not disagreeing, I’m just refining how I think it’ll happen. I don’t think they’ll make a move until Span shows he’s back in the groove after missing three weeks.

I also think Delmon won’t be hurt as much by a Span promotion as Monroe. He seems the likely candidate to leave when Span comes—he hasn’t hit a lick since his dramatic homer in KC. That’ll give Gardy another good fielding outfielder to give both Gomez and Delmon time off to think about how they need to improve. And it’ll allow him to focus on match-ups more. It’s all good.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 16, 2008 9:23 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ford

.... because CONSTANTLY losing balls in the roof and being a general airhead who doesn’t always pay attention to the game is the sign of a great defender.

by joeiscool12 on Jun 16, 2008 11:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ford's reputation for being a "general airhead"

...was blown way out of proportion. I’d rather have him defensively in LF than Delmon any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

by ubelmann on Jun 16, 2008 9:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Delmon..

never really played LF before this year; give the man some time to adjust.

And from everything I’ve heard about Ford off the field and seen on the field, his reputation was very much deserved.

by joeiscool12 on Jun 17, 2008 8:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If you need an explanation about how Delmon Young is a problem...

...then you need higher expectations. Young has essentially been no better than Jason Tyner so far this year, and that is not an exaggeration at all.

by ubelmann on Jun 14, 2008 3:31 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Okay, but he is a way better long term solution that ANY of those guys. His point was that we still had a problem at LF going into next season.

by joeiscool12 on Jun 16, 2008 11:37 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If Delmon doesn't improve...

...then he’s not a better long term solution than any of those guys.

His point was that we still had a problem at LF going into next season.

Um…as far as I can tell by looking up through the thread I’m the person who first suggested that we had a problem in LF, and I was suggesting that it is a problem right now, not that it is necessarily a problem in 2010. Right now, it’s a problem. And if you think he’s a surefire solution to left field going forward, I think you’re plenty delusional.

by ubelmann on Jun 16, 2008 9:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Delmon is 22

And he has 10 months of major league experience. Compare that the the leading candidates to take his job:

Delmon Young: 22, 255 games of MLB experience, highest level-MLB
Denard Span: 24, 12 games of MLB experience, highest level-MLB
Jason Pridie: 24, 0 games of MLB experience-highest level-AAA
Dustin Martin: 24, 0 games of major league experience-highest level-AA
Erik Lis: 24, 0 games of MLB experience-highest level-AA

I suppose you could argue for an acquisition. But it takes some huevos to argue that another player in the Twins system is more suited to play in the major leagues than Delmon.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 16, 2008 9:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I didn't say that

But it takes some huevos to argue that another player in the Twins system is more suited to play in the major leagues than Delmon.

Who argued that? I never argued that. I’m simply saying that LF has been a problem—not that it has been a problem with an obvious in-house solution. Maybe Delmon will improve and maybe he won’t, but so far this year, he’s been more part of the problem than he’s been part of the solution.

by ubelmann on Jun 17, 2008 12:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I realize it's a small small sample

Young has improved since his day off on May 29th.

.351/.345/.509/.854 with 7 extra base hits.

That’s no typo he has had zero walks in that span as well which is disappointing since he had been improving on that front up to that point.

However I’d rather have a guy with an .854 OPS not walking than a guy who walks more and has a .654 OPS

Hopefully the guy just needs to play a little less. He is only 22 as we love to mention so maybe the little guy just needs a little rest.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Jun 17, 2008 8:23 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Safron

...has been arguing that that’s how it should go. I’m arguing for more patience. As Halfchest has pointed out, recent trends are encouraging.

This LF thing is not new. It’s been a problem since Shannon Stewart’s feet started to give out. That was in 2005. Last year, it was arguably our weakest position, which is why the Twins were aggressive in trying to solve it in the offseason. Delmon is the best option short term. If recent trends continue, it will be a non-issue long-term as well.

People forget that most guys Delmon’s age are in A ball right now. A lot of his skills are still at the A ball level. Pitch recognition and situational hitting are examples of that. But if he can hold his OPS above 800 while showing above average range, we can live with it as he learns on the job.

Nobody argues with his tools. People focus on his deficiencies. I like to take a balanced approach. Based on the balancing act between his current skills and his tools, I have a rather optimistic projection that he will be above league average in the near term (except for power). And he has a chance to be a special player down the road. That alone should breed patience rather than impatience.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 17, 2008 9:09 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

My mistake...

It was you who first mentioned it; I just wasn’t paying enough attention.

Anyways, you really aren’t giving Delmon much of a chance right now. He is 22 years old, starting out his first year on a new team at a new position. If he only has 4 homers at the end of the season and has a sub-.250 BA, come back to me, but I really don’t see it happening.

by joeiscool12 on Jun 17, 2008 8:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree on Rincon 'costing the Twins several games' early

I looked at Rincon’s 2008 season, and it’s not as simple as cmath makes it seem.

First, Rincon didn’t allow Twins opponents to put games out of reach early in the season. Rincon allowed two runs in a 9-1 loss to the Angels in his first appearance, but between that outing and his appearance in the 19-3 loss to Detroit on May 24, Rincon never allowed more than one earned run in an appearance. Between April 2 and May 17, Rincon appeared in 14 games, allowing one run in four of his appearances and allowing no runs at all in the other ten. During this time, Rincon’s ERA dropped from 18.00 to 3.24.

Starting on May 18, however, Rincon had only two of nine appearances in which he didn’t allow at least one earned run (and one of those, against Texas, he gave up a hit and two walks while retiring only one batter, so it’s not as though he didn’t have the opportunity to give up some runs).

So it’s hard to argue that Rincon sucked all year—he had a bad first outing, appeared to be bouncing back, and then the wheels fell off. Gardy’s comment about Rincon seems dead-on to me.

by dwintheiser on Jun 13, 2008 4:45 PM EDT   0 recs

There you go again

Always standing up for the defenseless. {8>)3

I thought I said he started out pretty well. Because he did pitch decently in April. But May and June have been horrible. And I was in shock a couple of times when Gardy brought him in when the Twins were within two runs of the other team in the last week. And that, in particular, was what I referred to. AS long as Neshek was in there and Juan was in a mop-up role, he wa fine. But as soon as Neshek went down and Gardy tried Juan in a more prominent role, he became a pariah for the bullpen.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jun 13, 2008 5:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right on CMath...

...as usual you have hit it right on the head when our ex-professional players are, well?

We should expect the youngsters to make some mistakes, have some bad games or even bad stretches. But the play of Casilla, Gomez, Blackburn, Slowey, Perkins, and Matt Tolbert tells me the Twins have an exciting future. Jesse Crain is starting to come back to the type of pitcher we expect and Mauer/Morneau are playing like stars. The second half of the season should be fun, whether we are still in the hunt or are playing for next year.

Great post CMath!

by roger13 on Jun 14, 2008 11:22 AM EDT   0 recs

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