Message FA-31: Please Do Not Hang Up
by Jesse on Jul 11, 2008 10:40 PM EDT
in Game Recaps
17 comments
July 11, 2008: Open Thread, Twins @ Tigers Recap
Automated Message: Por favor no cuelgue. The leadoff hitter you are using is not effective. If you feel this message is in error, please try your stats and look again. If you require further assistance, please stay on the line and an operator will be with you shortly.
...
Operator: Lineup Construction Assistance, this is Daryl.
Gardenhire: Hi Daryl, Ron here. Listen, I'm having trouble with my leadoff hitter.
Daryl: Okay. Ron, are you still using the same guy?
Gardenhire: Gomez. Yep.
Daryl: Right. So what seems to be the problem?
Gardenhire: Well, he struck out again tonight. Multiple times.
Daryl: Twice?
Gardenhire: Thrice.
Daryl: I see. And did he reach base at all tonight?
Gardenhire: Nope. But he really hustled his tail off out there.
Daryl: I'm sure he did, Ron. Now listen, do you remember what I told you about all this the last three times you called?
Gardenhire: ...
Daryl: Ron?
Gardenhire: Speed is awesome?
Daryl: No, Ron.
Gardenhire: Fast guys belong at the top of a batting order?
Daryl: No.
Gardenhire: ...
Daryl: Ron?
Gardenhire: Speed is awesome?
Daryl: RON! NO! (sigh) Don't you remember? The number one trait that a leadoff hitter must possess, more than anything else, is the ability to...what?
Gardenhire: Run really fast?
Daryl: No, Ron. Get on base. The correct answer is--the number one trait that a leadoff hitter must possess, more than anything else, is the ability to get on base.
Gardenhire: I thought that was a joke. I thought you were joking.
Daryl: What?
Gardenhire: I thought it was a joke! When I got off the phone with you, I told all the guys that Daryl just made another funny joke! We laughed! I wrote it in my diary: Dear Diary, Daryl made another funny joke today!
Daryl: Right. Well, Ron, let me ask you something. How can a guy use all that speed when he doesn't get on base?
Gardenhire: He can use it in the field.
Daryl: That's right, he can. But what about in the batting order?
Gardenhire: Fast guys go at the top of the batting order.
Daryl: NO. Fast guys can only use their speed when they're on base. When they're not on base, they're not fast. They're on the bench.
Gardenhire: Okay. But what about the strikeouts?
Daryl: I don't know, Ron. Carlos is young, he's going to struggle. Either you hang with him or you send him to Rochester to get some discipline and let him start to recognize pitches in a less stressful environment. But if you don't send him down, Ron, you need to take him out of that leadoff spot.
Gardenhire: But fast guys go at the top.
Daryl: Ron, Denard is fast. Alexi is fast. Even Nick is fast. You have other options besides Carlos. Leaving Gomez in the leadoff spot is just putting fewer guys on base for Joe and Justin.
Gardenhire: You serious?
Daryl: Absolutely. Listen--try giving Gomez a couple of days off. Have him take some extra BP, have him stand in against whoever's starting the next couple days, let him see a few things. Talk to him, take the pressure off of him, tell him to relax and observe. Give him the opportunity to learn sometimes without having to stand inside the fire.
Gardenhire: ...
Daryl: Ron?
Gardenhire: We won tonight.
Daryl: I know you did, Ron. Good job. It was a great win. Just listen to what I said, okay? I'm only trying to help.
Gardenhire: You're funny, Daryl. I like you.
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This is awesome
Especially the Anchorman line..
by CARXRiedmann on Jul 11, 2008 11:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was going to write a recap. I see now that I was a fool. :-)
by Jon Marthaler on Jul 12, 2008 12:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hilarious!
This wasn’t a joke, was it?
"I don't think it's nice, you laughin'. See, my mule don't like people laughing. He gets the crazy idea you're laughing at him. Now if you apologize, like I know you're going to, I might convince him that you really didn't mean it . . ."
by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Jul 12, 2008 12:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My sentiments exactly. Everytime Gomez came up I was all…
by matty_b on Jul 12, 2008 12:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Seriously...
...I’m loving the ST: TNG love around here the last couple days.
by Jesse on Jul 12, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is more or less how i imagine Gardy actually thinks
spot on
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on Jul 12, 2008 12:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not a HUGE gardy fan but
I think his reasoning is more psychological right now. I do think he knows Gomez is not living up to the top spot in the order, but he thinks it is worth sticking with him for confidence reasons.
I really do think in another week or so it could change. Gardy has to love Span and Casilla with what they have done lately.
As a Twins fan who questions a lot of the managerial decisions, I’ve just come to live with the fact that Gardy is a personality & organizational manager more than a game and stats strategy guy. He follows the code of pitching & defense and scraping together runs. Personally, I am just so excited about how Span and Casilla are playing that I can’t get too upset about Gomez and Gardy. There is just so much potential there!
But yeah, Gomez should be batting 9th.
by zfan13 on Jul 12, 2008 1:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really
don’t mean to be too critical of Gardy…because I actually do think he’s a fine manager. It’s just that some situations boggle my mind, and keeping Gomez in the leadoff slot is mind-boggler number one. I also agree with you completely when you call Gardenhire a personality and organizational coach, because that’s exactly what he is. He carries out organizational philosophy on the field, sometimes at the expense of better alternatives.
I’m excited about Span and Casilla too (and Buscher and Punto)...it’d just be so much better for this team to get Carlos out of that leadoff spot, and get him some more time on the bench so he can learn away from the action.
by Jesse on Jul 12, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Throwing gasoline on the fire
First of all, I agree completely with matty_b. Gomez drives me up against the wall every time up. It’s not the fact that he sucks, because I know he’s young and better times will surely arrive at some point. But his approach to batting lead-off is simply so fundamentally wrong and immature that my blood starts boiling the second he steps into the on-deck circle.
His hacktastic batting philosophy and gun-slinging baserunning are simply inexcusable for a guy who should be fighting for the right to hit at the top of the order. Furthermore, he always seems oblivious to the game situation. For example, he never just takes a few pitches when the opposing pitcher has shown signs of lacking control, and he doesn’t set himself up to hitting a sac fly when this would be prudent.
A couple of interesting stats concerning Gomez’ lead-off abilities:
- According to the Hardball Times, Gomez is tied for the fourth-least pitches per PA in the AL (among batting title qualifiers) at 3.4.
- According to FanGraphs, Gomez swings at the third-highest percentage of pitches outside the strikezone in all of MLB (min. 300 PA; Delmon Young is no. four on that list). However, he only makes contact with about 61% of the balls outside the strikezone, which is much worse than Guerrero and Pierzynski, who top the list.
by PhoenixV on Jul 12, 2008 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Gardy
Remember, you don’t want to “lose” these guys. At some point they will have Carlos leading off again. It is best if he can just get better, since he is the future in center field, but with his current slump he is hurting the team. Give him a day off before the break, and bat him ninth after. I think the Twins need to talk to him about what they are doing, not “communicating through the lineup card.”
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jul 12, 2008 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely.
You can’t just tell a kid he’s going from the top of the order to the bottom.
And I’m with you—I’d much rather see the Twins keep Gomez on the team than send him to Rochester. Slide him down in the order, have a chat with him, give him more time off to progress so he doesn’t fall into the trap of believing he has to improve from game to game, because he’ll just end up pushing too hard. He has to know that the Twins are with him and see his development as a long-term investment, but at the same time they have to do what’s best for the team and drop him out of the leadoff role. It’ll put a lot less pressure on him.
by Jesse on Jul 12, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gomez must have nighmares
He’s chasing the slide ball and he can never catch it. It’s a Promethean punishment because Mercury bestowed more speed to him than Zeus approved.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 12, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Double Standard
Personally I think it’s pretty unfair the way Gomez AND Young are treated differently then other players, particularly Span and Casilla. I know Gomez and Young are considered superstars in the making and Span and Casilla are more second tier but still. A lot of what has been said about Gomez can also be said of Young. Young also has a terrible approach at the plate and has shown no signs of improving it. Yes Young had a good June but Gomez had a good May and that’s not so fresh in our minds anymore. Couple instances with Young that drove me up a wall. Watched him live at the game, he had four at bats, he swung at 4 pitches and made 5 outs. Recently against Cliff Lee, he struck out in two consecutive at bats on the very same pitch sequence: Fastball down the middle, fastball inside, curveball in the dirt. 3 pitches both times. Also after fouling off the first pitch to the right side on every single at bat you think he wouldn’t learned that his approach there isn’t quite working. He makes a lot of contact of balls in the zone, but he rather fouls them off or hits them weakly to the right side. I think he’s been able to get away with more than Gomez because he makes more contact and he’s a stronger kid.
What I’m getting to is that the organization looked at Casilla and Span and basically told them it wasn’t good enough. So they sent them back down to work on there approach to hitting and to the game. Now the organization is reaping the rewards of that philosophy. So why aren’t we doing the same with Gomez and Young? Both have a ton of potential, but I fail to see how throwing them out there everyday and rewarding them for there unwillingness/inability to develop. Send them down to AAA and make them figure it out. Gardy likes both a good deal so I highly doubt we have a Jason Bartlett on our hands.
Gardenhire's major league career: Banjo hitting, futility infielder who couldn't lick it.
Rick Anderson's major league career: Strikethrower who never made it happen with his sub 90's fastball.
Really gives a new definition to living vicariously through other people, don't it?
by caseintheface on Jul 12, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For a detailed look at Gomez' numbers
take a gander at the perrenial cynic, DWintheiser’s post over at the AL Blog Central:
http://thealcentralblog.com/2008/07/go-go-soak-your-head.html
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 12, 2008 4:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not quite a Double Standard
Double Standard,
While I will agree with you that Gomez and Young are given a little more rope because of their perceived future value, I wouldn’t say that it is to the point of a double standard.
As Casilla’s numbers would indicate, he was brought up too early last year. On top of a number of bone-headed fielding mistakes, he had a .256 OBP and an OPS+ of 39. Span, while having a solid spring, showed no indication that he was major league ready until his stint in AAA this year.
Young has the most track record of this group. He has been crucified by many this year (especially last month). While his hitting approach is horrendous, he still manages to produce around the league average (96 OPS+). His approach should improve with experience. Others, Guerrero and Pierzynski, have been able to produce above average results while still hacking away at pitches.
While Gomez has certainly not been a stalwort with the bat (OPS+ of 76 and hitting less than .220 when you subtract bunt singles), he is at the top of the league in advanced fielding statistics. So even though his bat isn’t producing, he still has a positive influence on the team (although he could do it batting 9th).
by cpa_guy on Jul 13, 2008 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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