Game 85: Tigers @ Twins
by Jesse
on Jul 2, 2008 1:01 PM EDT
in Game Threads
Detroit @ Minnesota
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Good to see...
we don’t have to deal with the “injured” Miguel Cabrera again today either.
Check out Goal Line Blitz, a fun web-based American footbal MMORPG
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by joeiscool12 on Jul 2, 2008 1:06 PM EDT 0 recs
I'm glad
to see Buscher and Kubel back in the lineup. I don’t even mind seeing Punto in at SS. His marginally worse offensive numbers are offset by what I’d call more reliable defense. I’m happy to see Punto get a little time at short.
by Jesse on
Jul 2, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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I would have like to seen Gomez get the day off, Span Shifted to Center and Monroe play in Right, Especially after his performance last night.
by Tony_O on
Jul 2, 2008 1:11 PM EDT
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this game isnt on espn today is it?
Im at home today and could watch it while I work.
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 2, 2008 1:14 PM EDT 0 recs
Nope, Not on TV in the Twins Market, it is on FSN Detroit i believe. only on the Twins Radio Network for Twins Biased coverage LOL
by Tony_O on
Jul 2, 2008 1:15 PM EDT
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you think gordon and gladden are overly biased?
by montanatwinsfan on
Jul 2, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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To Tell ya the truth not really lol, Just couldnt think of a the Word Based at the Time i posted that ha.. On the other Hand, Black Jack Morris is pretty biased if you ask me.
by Tony_O on
Jul 2, 2008 1:19 PM EDT
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No radio at work..
means I am watching the GameCast.
Check out Goal Line Blitz, a fun web-based American footbal MMORPG
http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=2882412
by joeiscool12 on
Jul 2, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
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yeah, I know none of them appear to be too bright, but I think they do a good job overall. Gordon has the right amount of enthusiasm and rythm to keep me listening and I think they provide a good amount of homer enthusiasm without actual outright bias.
by montanatwinsfan on
Jul 2, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
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we have
something cooking here…the Rabbits are coming! Fear the Rabbits! The Rabid Rabbits!!!!
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 1:56 PM EDT 0 recs
when
Casilla was called up and went into the 2 hole behind Gomez I started calling them the Rabbits. And then Span comes up! And now I see that Dick Bremer is calling them the rabbits too!
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
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I wish
that Mauer could have done that on Monday night with the tieing run in scoring position….but horray for Mauer! and Kubel gets a RBI base hit!
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:04 PM EDT
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yeah,
i remember a fan lamenting that Mauer seems to do that all the time, but I wonder if it seems that way because it is at such a key point in time that it sticks in one’s memory more than this clutch hit which will be quickly forgotten as the Twins have poured on the runs.
by montanatwinsfan on
Jul 2, 2008 2:09 PM EDT
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Delmon
has a RBI single now! Young almost has a .280 Avg now! Young has been swinging a hot bat and looks really locked in here in the “second” half.
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:07 PM EDT 0 recs
Buscher
now has a RBI single! 10th man is coming up! Punto is up to end it probably! Lets go Twins! 5 run inning so far here!
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:08 PM EDT 0 recs
wow
I have never seen that before! Punto was attempting to call time out but the pitcher was already throwing and he slapped a single into LF wow! I dont believe that! Maybe he should do that more often…he hits better!
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:10 PM EDT 0 recs
Awesome inning guys.
ANOTHER single by Punto….move ‘em around!
by Jesse on Jul 2, 2008 2:11 PM EDT 0 recs
Span
lines out sharply but directly at Guillen. Nice liner though. Too bad it wasnt up the line a little bit more! Good Inning! Go Blacky!
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:13 PM EDT 0 recs
Fossum in relief:
-Tigers purchased his contract from Toledo
-6 IP, 11 H , 8 R, 5 K, 2 BB
-Never fulfilled promise of any kind on the field, only had one decent season (‘02 with Boston)
-30 years old
by Jesse on Jul 2, 2008 2:14 PM EDT 0 recs
I can’t explain why this team has been playing so well, but I will take it.
Check out Goal Line Blitz, a fun web-based American footbal MMORPG
http://goallineblitz.com/game/signup.pl?ref=2882412
by joeiscool12 on Jul 2, 2008 2:15 PM EDT 0 recs
Ever
since Gardy called the team meeting after their beatings in Cleveland and Chicago, this team has been absolutely amazing! Aside from the 2 losses to the Brewers and here to Detroit in both cases they just seemed like they didnt show up to play. The opening loss to Detroit was more on Ullger’s shoulders though.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
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gardy
Gardy was on PTI yesterday, and was asked about that meeting. he said that he wanted the players to get control of the lockerroom, the coaches to get better, and get back to ‘Twins baseball’ (that should by copyrighted!)
basically, some player to step up, be a leader, and get to it. thats what I took out of his comments
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on
Jul 2, 2008 2:34 PM EDT
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thanks for the link
i’ll watch yesterday’s PTI on ESPN.com.
by montanatwinsfan on
Jul 2, 2008 2:35 PM EDT
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warning
Jay mariotti was filling in for Tony
lol
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on
Jul 2, 2008 2:37 PM EDT
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Generally:
1-Good pitching
2-Good hitting with RISP…amazingly so.
by Jesse on
Jul 2, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
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quantifiable vs unquantifiable
1-Good pitching
2-Good hitting with RISP…amazingly so.
clearly those are the quantifiables.
Having spent a lot of time in locker rooms, I will venture the wrath of the “quantifiers”, by speculating that this team might have developed a team attitude and a certain level in trust in one another. sometimes referred to as “chemistry”
When you trust your teammates, you gain confidence, and develop a diminished sense of anxiety over failure. in other words you relax and play.
I suspect something like that has developed over that last win streak.
by montanatwinsfan on
Jul 2, 2008 2:23 PM EDT
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That's possible too.
There are measures non-quantifiable that go into winning. And I think there is such a thing as team chemistry, players coming together and developing a belief in one another. And especially when you go on a winning streak, it’s much, much easier to get along and believe in each other and give more faith to struggling players than you might otherwise.
When teams win, they can develop a winning attitude. I think the Twins probably have that right now. But it’s circular…
Why do the Twins have a winning attitude? Because they’re winning.
Why are the Twins winning? Good pitching and timely hitting.
Why are the Twins benefiting from those two factors? They have a winning attitude.
(And repeat)
by Jesse on
Jul 2, 2008 2:31 PM EDT
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i agree
it is circular. but that doesn’t make it irrational or untrue.
I think it is circular as in a positive feedback system like you just described above rather than circular in the sense of an argument whose premises all rely on each other without a starting point.
by montanatwinsfan on
Jul 2, 2008 2:34 PM EDT
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It doesn't make it irrational or untrue,
It just makes it unprovable. Hence the term, intangible.
by Neil on
Jul 2, 2008 2:35 PM EDT
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Chemistry
Most teams that are winning seem to have good chemistry (except, apparently, Manny’s relationships), and teams that are losing are rarely accused of having good chemistry.
It seems to me that there are three possibilities:
1. Getting along helps you win.
2. Winning makes it easy to get along.
3. Sports writers are to blame, and chemistry is really just a code word for winning.
I believe two of those. I’m skeptical about the third (first) one.
by snolls on
Jul 2, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
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Nice pitch, Blackburn!
Sheff goes down swingin’....Tigers go quietly in the 4th…
by Jesse on Jul 2, 2008 2:21 PM EDT 0 recs
he's useless
until he starts hitting some home runs… ...HA! Just Kidding!
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 2, 2008 2:37 PM EDT 0 recs
you
would think to look at Delmon that he would be a slow poke…he has such a big build. But in reality, Delmon is fast. I cant really believe that because looking at him, he looks like a minature version of Lecroy…except much bigger boned with more muscle potential.
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:39 PM EDT 0 recs
i agree
a guy with his mass usually isn’t quite so quick, but he can cover ground pretty well around the bases…and it certain directions in the outfield as well.
by Jesse on
Jul 2, 2008 2:40 PM EDT
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I agree
Delmon does seem a little slow on little doinkers into shallow LF but that could be because he is still feeling his way around the Metrodome and would rather let it fall in front of him than to run in too far and have it fall behind him. Come next year, I think he will be better fielder in the dome, and then he has to adjust to the new stadium…poor guy!
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
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OMG
what is up with Punto? He gets a RBI single…gets thrown out at second though but what is up with his 2 hits today?
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:40 PM EDT 0 recs
Finally getting some rhythm at the plate
That rehab stint in the minors was probably really good for him in a lot of ways.
by Neil on
Jul 2, 2008 2:41 PM EDT
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yeah
but his base running mistakes are a problem (I didn’t watch the one today, but he shouldn’t have gone home yesterday). Also, he looks extremely frustrated out there, which is bad for chemistry, regardless of what I said in the earlier discussion.
by snolls on
Jul 2, 2008 3:35 PM EDT
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5 Runs on 1 XBH
Is this really sustainable. It’s pretty much been the same case the first two games of the series. The Twins are putting a ridiculous amount of balls in play and getting a large quantity of hits too, put isnt this style of play be really hard to maintain?
I know Span’s a good kid and he deserved a call-up again, but I was almost wishing they would’ve called up Randy Ruiz who just finished having a pretty roudy June (.360/.437/.658). Yes I know his only redeemable quality is that he can hit, but with Cuddyer out we still had 4 OF’s on the roster and Punto for emergencies. Not to mention we’re going to be facing a lot of lefties going into the All-Star break, particularly versus Cleveland. Really lacking thump in this lineup. And with all these single guys i just don’t know.
Gardenhire's major league career: Banjo hitting, futility infielder who couldn't lick it.
Rick Anderson's major league career: Strikethrower who never made it happen with his sub 90's fastball.
Really gives a new definition to living vicariously through other people, don't it?
by caseintheface on Jul 2, 2008 2:40 PM EDT 0 recs
Well now
6 runs on 2 xhb’s
Gardenhire's major league career: Banjo hitting, futility infielder who couldn't lick it.
Rick Anderson's major league career: Strikethrower who never made it happen with his sub 90's fastball.
Really gives a new definition to living vicariously through other people, don't it?
by caseintheface on
Jul 2, 2008 2:41 PM EDT
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what
would you rather have? Rabbits or Elephants? I personally like the Rabbits…it is nice to see guys on base that can steal a base off of you which makes the pitcher throw more fastballs to our Sharks/Elephants: Mauer, Morneau….notice that Kubel and Delmon dont get very many easy balls to handle because when they come up there are no relatively fast guys on base (Mauer or Morneau) in order to make that pitcher worry about them. That is why I think Mauer has a .328 Avg and Morneau has a .310 avg. Compare that to the .264 avg of Kubels and the slow start by Delmon when he was batting around .250. Delmon has now picked it up with some nice hits to raise his avg over .280.
so, in light of this, would you rather have had Ruiz or Span. I say Span…A) fast B) Good Glove C) relatively good arm…Ruiz started in AA and has now done fairly well in AAA. I think he should still prove that he can do well at AAA before getting called up. Ruiz possesses A) good bat B) good power C) no defense D) would block Kubel in DH E) no arm really.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:49 PM EDT
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there's a lot of luck involved, absolutely.
winning and scoring runs purely on singles isn’t sustainable, but the Twins have managed more than their share of XBH over their winning streak. i think they’ll be okay as long as they keep that up.
it’d be run for me to see ruiz get a shot, but span still has something to prove. ruiz is already a career minor leaguer. not that that’s bad, and i don’t mean to say that being a career minor leaguer is a horrible thing, but i don’t think span’s opportunities should be thrown out for giving ruiz some time. maybe if monroe goes down or kubel, but span’s versatility in the field and his improvements this season warrant his spot on the roster.
by Jesse on
Jul 2, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
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the twins
going back to the start of the San Deigo series (not counting today), the Twins have played 8 games. They have 13 doubles, 1 triple, 11 HRs off 81 hits for a stat line of
.300 .360 .478 .838
I’ll take 11 HRs in 8 games from the twins anytime!
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on
Jul 2, 2008 2:46 PM EDT
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especially from this group,
who on the whole are seen as “powerless”.
by Jesse on
Jul 2, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
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right
and the Twins scored a boatload of runs before that (they are what, 2nd or 3rd in the league)
the season is half done, so maybe the Twins can sustain that
all that said, it would be nice to have another bopper in that lineup
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on
Jul 2, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
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OK...
...ESPN’s Game Cast says “N Punto out stretching at second”.
Does this mean he was trying to stretch a single into a double, or that he was not on the base, stretching out?
by Jesse on Jul 2, 2008 2:46 PM EDT 0 recs
I missed
I missed that on the radio.
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on
Jul 2, 2008 2:47 PM EDT
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Yahoo has
- N. Punto singled to left, D. Young scored, N. Punto out at second
by TMW on
Jul 2, 2008 2:48 PM EDT
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Punto
was out when he singled to left and Delmon scored. Thomas threw the ball into second and nailed Punto by a good 10-15 feet. Yet another base running mistake by Punto, last night getting thrown out at home and today getting thrown out at second.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
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Not entirely terrible
It sounds like he definitely shouldn’t have run, but from Dan & John’s discussion on the radio, Punto did make a bit of a heads-up play as well – Delmon slowed up coming into home, and he might not have scored before the out was made if not for Punto coming out of his slide and stopping for a moment in front of second base.
Also, I went on Gameday and checked out the play by Punto in the 3rd inning, and as far as I’m concerned, he can do whatever he wants on offense and I’m not going to hold it against him – that was absolutely amazing.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on
Jul 2, 2008 3:00 PM EDT
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I have
to imagine that Blacky will only go 6. Blacky has thrown 95 pitches (61 for strikes!!!)....I think either Crain or Breslow will come on in the top of the seventh.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:52 PM EDT
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I'm still irritated by Monday's loss
I know I’m being spoiled right now, but all I keep thinking is, “This should have been another sweep.”
by TMW on Jul 2, 2008 2:52 PM EDT 0 recs
does
Span not like sliding? Span should be out at least 3x this series but he has been lucky.
by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 2, 2008 2:56 PM EDT 0 recs
great
Gomez is hurt…he is limping as he comes off the field after sliding hard into second base to break up the double play…..
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
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If ever someone would lie about how hurt they are
I have no idea how serious that limp seen, but with Denard right there I think Gomez is going to tell Gardy he’s fine regardless.
by TMW on
Jul 2, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
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it was
probably just a cramp anyways…those things hurt enough so he should be back out there!
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 3:01 PM EDT
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Official Scoring
I’ve never heard this much discussion of the Official Scorer’s rulings before. John and Dan questioned two rulings in a row (Gomez’s hit, and the RBI and error for Casilla), although I believe I’m on the side of the official scorer on both.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Jul 2, 2008 3:01 PM EDT 0 recs
no
Gomez “hit” should not have been counted…it was a fielders choice although it was missed. The RBI for Casilla should not have been since Span did not break right away and Casilla did go to second on the throwing error by Polanco. Official Scorer is wrong on that.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 3:03 PM EDT
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if you
look at the replay, Renteria checked Span back to the base (Span actually went back to about 2 feet from the base) and then threw to Polanco at second. The fact that Span would go back to the base automatically takes away the RBI. In that situation, the runner on third must break right away in order to have a RBI credited to Casilla. Span did not do that thus Casilla never had a RBI.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
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Official rules
I’m with you on the Casilla RBI, I think, according to the official rules:
The official scorer’s judgment must determine whether a run batted in shall be credited for a run that scores when a fielder holds the ball or throws to a wrong base. Ordinarily, if the runner keeps going, the official scorer should credit a run batted in; if the runner stops and takes off again when the runner notices the misplay, the official scorer should credit the run as scored on a fielder’s choice.
I guess it might depend on whether you consider the throw to second a throw “to the wrong base” or whether you could argue that throwing to second is the correct play and that Span heading home is a predictable consequence of that, so that Casilla’s hit led directly to the run. (NOTE: I have no idea how legitimate that argument is, although my guess is that the official scorer used similar logic)
As for the Gomez hit, I think it’s debatable, as Gordon and Gladden sounded like there wouldn’t have been any chance to get Gomez at first on the play. The official rule:
The official scorer shall credit a batter with a base hit when:
... a fielder unsuccessfully attempts to put out a preceding runner and, in the official scorer’s judgment, the batter-runner would not have been put out at first base by ordinary effort.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on
Jul 2, 2008 3:21 PM EDT
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ah ok
I think and know that Gomez would have beaten it out so it does look like it is a basehit then. Casilla’s RBI though was botched….and I do think that Morneau should have been credited with a base hit when the OS gave a error to Guillen. I think Morneau would have beaten that out by a good step even if Guillen did not bobble it.
by 33MorneauMVP on
Jul 2, 2008 3:23 PM EDT
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Good thing Gardy didn't get thrown out
Cause Ulger would have taken Blackburn out in the 6th.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 2, 2008 3:13 PM EDT 0 recs
After he had gotten 1 out
Our relievers always to be so much more solid when they start their own innings particularly Crain and Guerrier
Gardenhire's major league career: Banjo hitting, futility infielder who couldn't lick it.
Rick Anderson's major league career: Strikethrower who never made it happen with his sub 90's fastball.
Really gives a new definition to living vicariously through other people, don't it?
by caseintheface on
Jul 2, 2008 3:15 PM EDT
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