With Prices Falling Down (Completed this time)
At what point does it make sense to go ahead and forgo next season's first round draft choice in exchange for a player who is a type a free agent who can play an important role for us.
In this article Olney lists his all unimployed team but goes on to quote 2 GM's
I've got no money," an American League general manager said this week. "In fact, I would shed some dollars, if I could
and
Said an NL GM: "I'm tapped out. I've got almost nothing. I mean, I might have a $500,000 deal for the right veteran, but I'd have to get some approval
He also goes on to show what they Type A F.A. made last year, what they should have made with arbitration and if they have signed a contract now what is their 09 salary. (Scroll down to Jan 7th article on Compensation Purgatory) Looking over that list and seeing no action happening and seeing what Burrell among others have signed for in the last week or so I am now wondering, at what point does it make sense to forgo next years draft pick and get a bargin on a F.A.
The F.A.'s that I am wondering about in particular:
Juan Cruz. He wants to be a closer. he made 1.9 million. would be a great #2 reliever in our pen setting up Nathan. Not saying he would sign off or not get a better offer, but would a 2 year 3.5-4.5 million with a 3rd option or even a 3 year 9 million be worth giving up a first round pick for? He would go along way to making the bullpen a strength in a hurry.
We obviously don't need any starting pitching but a 2 year 10-12 million contract (total not per season) to Ben Sheets to allow us to trade Baker for Hardy? or Blackburn and a prospect or 2 to Seattle for Beltre.
Orlando Hudson 2B a 2 or 3 year 4-5 million per season, moves Casilla to SS and Punto to the bench.
I am not saying that these are the best moves or are likely but I see an opportunity for us to get better on paper for a little money and we can always trade these guys down the road for prospects. The only downside I see is injury.
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21 comments
Comments
Hudson
Would be a great addition. I still think it would cost in the range of 3yrs 6-7 million per. Which would be great. Shift Cassilla to SS, Punto uttility.
by Twins win on Jan 10, 2009 4:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Punot at 4.25 Million a Year has to be a Starter
Remember, we didn’t give Punto Money to be our #1 Backup infielder he pretty much Has to start at SS or at the very least 3B.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jan 10, 2009 7:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
O-Dog
I would love to see Orlando Hudson with the twins. I think he’d be worth the contract. Casilla is a natural SS isn’t he? That could work out nicely.
by ianmader on Jan 11, 2009 4:18 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Baker for Hardy
I really don’t think I would do that deal
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on Jan 11, 2009 11:21 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If we had Ben Sheets
Would I be willing to trade Baker for Hardy?
First off, signing Sheets would probably bump Perkins out of the rotation. I would project Sheets at a 3.4 WAR and Perkins at a 1.3. This would result in a cool increase of 2.1 WAR, a nice return for signing Sheets.
Now, consider trading Baker (3.3 WAR) for Hardy. I would project Hardy as .349 wOBA / +13 runs fielding = 4.6 WAR. From a one for one / WAR perspective, I would consider Hardy to be more valuable than Baker. Deciding on a trade would depend on the replacement for each position. Hardy would replace Punto (.297 wOBA / +12 runs fielding) = 1.5 WAR. Baker would be replaced in the rotation by Perkins (1.3 WAR). That tells me the net projected effect of the trade would be -2.0 (Perkins 1.3 – Baker 3.3) pitching and +3.1 hitting (Hardy 4.6 – Punto 1.5). In other words, an additional net increase of 1.1 WAR. This could further increase due to Punto now moving into the UT role, meaning he’d get the backup PA at SS (instead of Harris) and 2B (instead of Tolbert).
So yes, I would be willing to trade Baker for Hardy, but only if we signed Ben Sheets. Overall, if we made these two moves, I would see us improving by 0.1 WAR (Sheets 3.4 – Baker 3.3) pitching and 3.1 hitting (Hardy vs Punto). +3.2 WAR overall, well worth signing Sheets to a 2 year contract in the $8M per year range and losing our first round draft pick, IMO.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 11, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Baker for Hardy is the future, not next year
He would certainly make us a better team next year and the year after, but then he’d be gone. We have Baker under control for 4 more years, right? And same with Slowey. I wouldn’t do it.
by lookatthosetwins on Jan 13, 2009 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Two years away from free agency
Yes, Hardy is eligible for FA in two years. We have four years (by my calculation) for Baker and five for Slowey. There’s definitely an advantage of team control (additional two years) that must be considered when comparing Hardy and Baker. I’m not sure how I would quantify this team control other than the salary gap between Hardy and Baker over the next two years.
As far as Hardy being gone after 2010, I’m not convinced of that. He’d be the second highest priority (IMO, next to Mauer) for signing a position player to a contract extension. He would not extend cheaply though… then again, you would think that Milwaukee may take this into consideration as well when considering offers for Hardy.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 14, 2009 11:52 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Draft picks
A lot of guys are in Type A limbo, nobody wants to sign the and lose a first rounder. If the Twins do sign a Type A (not likely) I would rather sign Juan Cruz than O-Hud.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jan 11, 2009 11:23 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Limbo guys
are there because no one wants to pay market value and lose a first rounder for these guys. I am saying if we offer contracts that are lower then what they were expected to make, would that make up for the first rounder if we had the best lowball (so to speak) offer?
Remeber we can still trade these guys for prospects in 2010 when the economy is picking back up and these guys are real bargains.
I would rather have Juan Cruz first too as he fills a bigger need.
Although O-Dog makes the IF better too as he is a plus fielder with an .800 OPS. Better than DeRosa for the same dollars.
by doofus on Jan 11, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz vs Hudson
I agree, would probably sign Cruz before I’d sign Hudson. Would not be as long a contract, and a cheaper price, IMO.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 11, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to go, go big
My guess is that the reason this isn’t happening is that the players are still holding out for more money. If the premise of the question is correct, though, I say, go for a bunch of them (a la the yankees).
Sign: Cruz, Hudson and Sheets. Assume the cost is something like $15-20m for the three of them. We lose draft picks 1-3
Trade: Perkins + Cuddyer + Hughes for Beltre. Costs us another $5m for one year.
Span
Hudson
Mauer
Morneau
Beltre
Kubel
Young
Casilla
Gomez
Rotation: Sheets, Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn
Bullpen: Nathan, Neshek(?), Cruz, Mijares, Breslow, Crain, Guerrier, Bonser, Humber (minus 2)
Bench: Punto, Redmond, Tolbert, Pridie
Minus the bench bats, that’s a contending team in a heartbeat (though it kind of depends on Sheets staying healthy). Next year, Beltre falls of the payroll, and is replaced by Valencia, and the payroll is more reasonable again.
by snolls on Jan 11, 2009 4:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
to imp[rove bench bats
Harris or Buscher could be kept in place of Tolbert.
by doofus on Jan 11, 2009 7:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Perkins/Cuddyer/Hughes...
…would get Beltre it would have happened already.
Perkins is by a fair stretch the worst pitcher in the Twins’ major league rotation. Cuddyer is a mediocre offensive and a very bad defensive corner outfielder who is aging rapidly, is hurt all the time, and has a bad contract. Hughes is a classic case of the kind of prospect who is valued higher by fans of his organization who follow minor league prospects than by any actual organization.
Trading for Beltre would take at least either a 1) better pitcher (Baker/Slowey) or 2) a better outfielder (Young/Span), if not both. This is why it’s not going to happen.
by DK on Jan 12, 2009 1:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
both good points
So the bench becomes ,Punto, Redmond, Harris and Pridie.
And the trade becomes Perkins + Cuddyer + Hughes + Swarzak/Mulvey. Hell, throw in Bonser or Humber too, and see if they can stick with the Mariners.
I’m just saying that if we want to go for one type A FA, then we might as well go for a bunch of them. If there is a discount available because of the first round draft pick, then we might as well take 3 discounts, and give up our first 3 picks. It would also help us free up other players to trade. If we couldn’t get Beltre, then maybe we could get Mora, Encarnacion, Brandon Wood or Andy LaRoche. They wouldn’t cost us as much in salary.
by snolls on Jan 12, 2009 8:11 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the aggressive stance
of signing Cruz, Hudson and Sheets. Here’s how I would see it playing out, from a projected WAR perspective.
1. Juan Cruz – I would project 65 IP, 3.50 tRA, comes out to 1.1 WAR. Cruz would likely be replacing innings that I had projected as replacement value, he adds +1.1 wins to the bottom line. If we sign him, we’ll have a pretty full bullpen, likely will not keep both Bonser and Humber, who are out of options.
2. Ben Sheets – I would project 150 IP (take into account injuries) and 3.70 tRA, comes out to 3.4 WAR. Sheets would replace 100 innings currently allocated to Perkins and 50 Humber innings (he’s likely the odd man out). I would expect to see Perkins pitch out of the bullpen, replacing Humber’s 60 IP there. Overall, signing Sheets bumps our pitching WAR an additional +2.2 WAR, up to 23.7.
3. Orlando Hudson – I would project Hudson giving us 550 PA at .340 wOBA. However, his defense has been below average UZR the past three years, so I put him at -2.5 runs. Moving Casilla to SS (400 PA, plus an additional 150 backing up Hudson at 2B) and giving Punto the other 300 PA has a total net effect of an additional +1.1 WAR, up to 22.3 total.
Overall, I would project the three signings to bump us up from a projected 86.6 wins to 90.9. +4.3 wins has a value of about $20M, so we’d be paying market value for the WAR increase if we signed to a total of $20M for next year.
Of the three signings, Cruz and Sheets appear to give better bang for the buck than Hudson. Unless we can sign Hudson for 2 years / $10M, I don’t think it makes a lot of sense. Cruz and Sheets make much more sense, perhaps we find a bargain there.
Given the above, I’d target Juan Cruz for 2 years / $8M, Sheets to 2 years / $18M, with a vesting third year option, and offer Hudson 2 years / $10M. I don’t expect the market has gone down that far for these guys, but we’d be on the hook for an additional $18M in 2009 and 2010, in return for becoming the clear favorite to win the AL Central. As long as the additional payroll doesn’t hinder our ability to sign Mauer to an extension, I’m all for giving up the three first round picks to get these guys.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 12, 2009 9:01 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Without any trades
I would put our lineup/rotation as follows:
1. Span
2. Hudson
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Cuddyer
6. Kubel
7. Harris/Buscher
8. Casilla
9. Gomez
Bench: Redmond, Young, Buscher, Punto
Rotation: Sheets, Liriano, Baker, Slowey, Blackburn (Perkins, Bonser in the wings)
Bullpen: Nathan, Cruz, Crain, Breslow, Perkins, Bonser, Guerrier
Humber would be the odd man out here, and Tolbert / Mijares have options, I’d start them out at AAA. If we’re looking at trades, I’d see if Texas, Washington, Colorado, etc would be interested in a Humber-Bonser package. Would they be sufficient to get Elvis Andrus from Texas? He would be in line for a 2010 arrival, perhaps back up Punto that year and step in 2011. Great defensively, tons of speed. Imagine Andrus, Gomez, Casilla and Span in the same lineup. They can run all day, with excellent defense.
by Adam Peterson on Jan 12, 2009 9:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
draft picks
I think it’s a shame that teams that lost free agents to the Yankees could end up with a 3rd round pick instead of a 1st rounder, just because the Yanks bought so many type A players. The rule should be changed so they get a sandwich pick at least. But until they fix this rule, the Twins would get a huge advantage signing more than one type A in the same year. It’s definitely a better deal to sign all three. A third round pick for Ben Sheets? Sign me up!
by by jiminy on Jan 13, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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