Trade Nathan and Young????
by bighead306 on Oct 1, 2009 2:56 AM EDT
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What if we Trade Joe Nathan and Delmon Young and make guerrier or Mijares the closer next year? We do got Neshek coming back. I think its time we give up on Young he could someday be a good hitter but never a great hitter...we can sign another outfielder or just give Gomez the starts in CF and then Span in CF when Mauers the DH and Kubel can play left. Nathan is getting older and has seemed to struggle a bit over the last few weeks...I still think hes good but if we can get a big arm or big bat in return along with Mijares pitching amazing lately even to right handers it seems like it could work.
Or what about Delmon Young and a pitcher such as Liriano,Manship,Swarzak for Dan Uggla who is rummored in trades again?
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Really!!!!????????????
No way they trade Nathan. You don’t trade the guy who has the most saves since 2004.
Yes he is tied with Mo but still. He’s also made the all-star team how many times? 3? 4? it one of those two. You say we get Neshek back next year. So would you rather have a pitcher like Manship who gets the ball one game becuase of an injury (looking to 2010) pitch 5 innings then have Akeppelypse pithch the 6th, Neshek 7th, then Mijares 8th, and Gurrier 9th? Or Manship pitch 5. Mijares 6, Gurreier 7th, Neshek 8th, and Nathan 9th? I like option Number 2! To get to your point about Delmon I believe that we can trade him he probably won’t ever amunt to much more than 15-17 Dingers and 70 RBI’s. Considering when we get Aaron Hicks and Ben Revere we won’t need him. SO yes to Delmon and NEVER EVER to NATHAN!
by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Oct 1, 2009 9:56 AM EDT reply actions
Unquestionably worth considering.
Really depends on who they can get for either.
Several fanposts and running commentaries on these two and Cuddyer and Kubel already…
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 1, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions
Several fanposts
If it was just one, I’d say no way, but several? And running commentaries? Let’s get Bill Smith on this right away. There might be some team out there that would pick up a slouch like Nathan. AFATG, Gardy, Kubes, Cuddy, J-Mo, and Mauer can all start packing their bags.<—Too wordy for sarcasm font.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 1, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 1, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
It's sarcasm
Saying that since there have been multiple fanposts on the subject we clearly need to trade these guys because fanposts are so significant.
While we’re at it, we should trade all our losers like Morneau and Mauer too.
Exactly
Thanks
Sorry Montana, not picking on you. I’m just cranky, my Twins lost last night.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 1, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
hey now...
what about that “look on the sunny side of life” stuff?
"Baseball doesn't owe me a thing. I owe my whole life to baseball." -Kirby Puckett
I'm trying.
Keeping my chin up anyway!
Stupid Tigers!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 1, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
oh thanks.
That was completely missing my point altogether.
My point was to the author of the post. We have debated this one, almost ad nauseum in past posts, just go back and read some of them.
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 1, 2009 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
a wise man
proposed this idea not 6 weeks ago. Let’s give him a medal of some sort.
Apparently Milt on Tilt
Wants a cookie!
by montanatwinsfan on Oct 1, 2009 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
while I agree trading Nathan wouldn't be a bad idea
The Twins are never going to do it, so I don’t really see the point in speculating.
The better drum to beat would be to try and get Gardy to use him properly.
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
+1
I have changed my mind about this, now that Nathan has shown his human side. But I still think the Twins would have to be blown away to trade him. The problem is, about half the GMs in baseball would never give up players and that kind of money for a closer. A lot of GMs that would already have elite closers. So I don’t see much of a market for him. So even if the Twins would trade him (which I doubt), he ain’t goin’ anywhere.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
If you dont like trading Nathan
Trade for Uggla move him to 3rd and keep Punto at 2nd while resigning Cabrera at SS… Trade Delmon Young and Anthony Swarzak, or Jeff Manship, or even Liriano for Dan Uggla . Lineup would be
1.Span
2.Cabrera
3.Mauer
4.Morneau
5.Kubel
6.Cuddyer
7.Ugla
8.Gomez
9.Punto
To have Uggla batting 7th in a lineup would be very strong… The Twins 3,4,5,6,7 hitters could all hit 30 Homeruns!!! Thats over 150 homeruns from 5 guys in the lineup! and you would still have plenty of speed with Span, Cabrera, Gomez, and Punto.
ok
so the middle 5 in our order could hit 150 homers. That is great! How much do those same middle five in our order cost though? $300 million…that is more than the Twins would be willing to pay. Plus, Uggla is not one of the best fielding second baseman and you suggest putting him at 3B with a “getting slow” Cabrera next to him at SS? Bad idea! Furthermore, it is going to take more than D. Young and Anthony Swarzak/Manship/Liriano to get Uggla. Florida will be looking for equal talent in return, not 4 pieces that do not even equal Uggla’s talent. How about we just sit tight with Valencia at 3B, possibly going out and picking up Hardy for SS, and then wait until Sano moves through the system in order to replace Valencia at 3B.
2010 Lineup:
1. Span
2. Jardy
3. Mauer
4. Morneau
5. Cuddyer
6. Kubel
7. Valencia
8. Gomez
9. Tolbert/Punto
This appears to be a pretty decent lineup construction to me…plenty of XBH power in there, with the “little” guys – Gomez, Span, Tolbert/Punto – getting on base. We can sit with this lineup until Sano, Revere and Hicks are ready for the big club and then we shall see some shifts. I do not at all mind doing this.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Sano is 16, first time in the US flush with cash…. do you really think he’ll be ready in less than 4 years? I don’t think so.
I don't either honestly
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 1, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
If you look at the guys he's compared to
A-Rod came up at 18. Cabrera at 19. The Twins don’t rush guys like that. But I wouldn’t be surprised if he get the Mauer treatment (Mauer came up at 20).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
300 million???
Were talking about next year its the same salary as it would be plus Uggla how does that change how much money we spend?
Great idea!
I think the Twins should trade all their good players for better players on other teams. I’m sure we can get Hanley Ramirez for Morneau, Albert Pujols for Mauer, Evan Longoria for Joe Nathan, Brian McCann for Delmon Young and Felix Hernandez for Nick Punto. There would be a downgrade at catcher but you’d make up for it everywhere else.
I'd keep Mauer
Sure, Pujols is a better hitter. But he also plays the easiest position to field (quite well I may add) and Mauer plays the hardest.
by ckb on Oct 1, 2009 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions
True enough
Just keep Cuddyer at 1B (Morneau is a bum) and trade Delmon for Matt Garza. Wait, nobody would be dumb enough to trade Matt Garza for Delmon Young.
Garza is a downgrade...
Hard for me to understand infatuation with Garza. With the exception of a very good series against Boston last year, he is quite pedestrian. He’ll pitch a stunningly good game (ala ALCS) sandwiched between a couple of absolute stinkiers (ala ALDS & WS). 4th or 5th starter, maybe.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
Seriously?
Garza has more innings and a lower ERA than any Twins starting pitcher (other than Duensing, who has a whopping nine starts). If a team has Matt Garza as their fourth or fifth starter, they have one of the best pitching staffs in all of baseball.
I don’t know that there’s a pitcher on the Twins’ major league roster I wouldn’t trade straight-up for Garza.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Garza is what he is...
Good stats, poor results.
Other than the ALCS last year what has he ever done? Inconsistant as heck.
Has a m(b)illion Dollar arm and a 10 cent head.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
I say Glen Perkins, Brendon Harris/ Casilla and Carlos Gomez + maybe a mid level prospect....
to the Brewers
For SS J.J. Hardy
and 2B/COF Brett Lawrie
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 1, 2009 5:24 PM EDT reply actions
except
no one wants Perkins, no one wants Harris. These guys aren’t tradeable as they won’t be Twins after the end of the season.
except a team like the Brewers
…boy are they pitching starved or what?
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Oct 1, 2009 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Gomez?
Gomez is the best CF in the league and hits about the same as Delmon.
Delmon is one of the worst LF in the league and hits about the same as Carlos.
I go with Delmon being traded…Perkins, Humber, Manship, Casilla, Young for Hardy and Lawrie would be what I would do. Brewers do like Perkins based on the talks the Twins had last year with them.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Nathan trade
He’s more valuable during a mid-season acquisition. Right now, during the winetr months, teams will go for a free agent or look at other team’s closers-in-waiting. The Twins would do better trading, say, Guerrier than Nathan. The Twins have toa sk themselves how much middle-relief should cost. Going into 2010, they will have 3 $2+ million middle relief guys in Rauch, Guerrier and Crain.
Any of them a closer of the future? Maybe, but not for the Twins. I think the Twins might be more ready to go with a Neshek stopgap and look at Slama, Delaney or Burnett as closer possibilities right now. And, who knows, Liriano may move into relief and shine.
But trading Nathan in the off season for any package, Think not. When a team in the running for a pennant loses its closer (think the Yankees, Mets maybe someday, Cubs, even Angels) and don’t have a viable second in the wings, they will go after Nathan and pay the price.
Just hope Joe doesn’t get injured. Either of the Joes?!
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
Dream Trades
Hardy, Hardy, Hardy.
Nice thought.
Interesting packages.
Wish I was a GM with the Big picture!
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
Hardy?
Why does everyone want Hardy so much he has done nothing! hes so bad he was sent down to the minors and now that hes back hes not even the starter…I wouldnt want him even as a free agent and theres talks about trading Delmon Young for him? i dont understand
Hardy
was one of the best shortstops in the game from 2007-2008. He’s not starting partly because of the young stud SS prospect up with the Brewers now. Delmon, on the other hand, has merely been one of the worst corner outfielder’s in the game for the past 4 years.
If someone offered Delmon for Hardy straight up in a trade, Doug Melvin would piss in their face.
+1
I agree with you, but I’d add two other quick points.
1. Defense. Even though Hardy’s offense has been bad this year, his defense has still been good. Fangraphs ranks Hardy’s defense 6th among qualifying MLB shortstops (qualifying by innings) this season. For comparison, Hardy has an UZR/150 of 6.9, while Nick Punto’s UZR/150 is 3.2
2. Buying low. After struggling at the plate this year, Hardy wouldn’t cost us nearly as much in a trade as he would have a year ago. Based on his good 2007 and 2008 seasons, we can hope Hardy can bounce back and try to get him for a relative bargain.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 2, 2009 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Best line ever? Best line ever.
If someone offered Delmon for Hardy straight up in a trade, Doug Melvin would piss in their face.
This is wonderful.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
the reasons he went to the minors is more about money and contracts
The guy who is replacing him is touted as a good shot at being the best defensive SS in all of baseball. He has plus speed and good contact skills so he isn’t lost at the plate either. And critically, he is a rookie and will be cheap for 3 years.
By sending Hardy to the minors, he ended up being under team control for an additional year. I’d also add that his “bad” is as good as others who are lesser defenders that don’t seem to get a lot of complaining.
I don’t even know if they would want Delmon Young.
Well...
Hardy also hit like Nick Punto this year.
How confident are we that he recovers? I mean, I know he had those two good years, but it’s not like he was just unlucky this year – his BABIP was exactly what you’d expect given his line drive rate (which has gone steadily down the last three years), and his HR/FB plummeted this year as well.
Anyone got a scout-type view of what the heck was wrong with him, and, more importantly, whether it’s fixable?
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I'd say he was pretty unlucky
He had one game where the other team had 3 MLB video highlights of defense and they were all on Hardy’s at bats. After a while it clearly got in his head and he’s known for a while that there is a crazy good kid in AAA knocking at the door. I saw a report that said one scout believed he was holding his hands too far out.
FWIW, he hit something like .440 in ST. Remember too that the scoring of BABIP and LD is like having a guy look in the sky and judge whether its clear, partly cloudy or mostly cloudy.
LD yes, BABIP no
BABIP is an objective stat – it measures whether a ball put in play resulted in a base hit.
I’ll agree that there’s subjectivity in LD%, but the fact that it jibes fairly well with his low BABIP is still worrisome.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
We need a number 2
If we dont get Orlando we need a number 2 hitter thats our main weakness this year and Orlando filled it pretty well. If we were to get Hardy i dont know if he is true number 2 hitter so then were stuck with punto in the 2 hole again….i dont mind punto being a starter as long as we sign a good number 2 hitter and punto bats 9th.
Orlando filled the hole pretty good?
I guess he hasn’t been the Twins biggest problem this year, but a man with a .301 OBP really filling the hole? Fun fact, Orlando and Punto’s career OBP are essentially identical.
LOL
Must be a joke. Nathan’s 46 saves are 2nd in the AL and a career high for him. Closers like that don’t just grow on trees. Nathan still has a lot of great years ahead of him.
Don't let the tin foil hats fool you
Believe it or not, they are serious, but it’s all harmless monday-morning QBing. Bill Smith will most likely never read any of it.
No harm, no foul IMHO.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 3, 2009 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually, Bill Smith posts here
He goes by the name Johnny Safron
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 4, 2009 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
That explains so much
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
"Over? Did you say 'over'? Nothing is over until we decide it is!" -John "Bluto" Blutarsky
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Oct 4, 2009 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
That settles it
what_would_gil_thorp_do has won the thread.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
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