My swan song: What to do for 2010?
This will be my last front-page story for TwinkieTown. I'll still comment and post the occasional fanpost. But I'm stepping away from regular duties and into the title of editor at large.
I'm just too busy to do the kind of job for Jesse and company that I would like to do. I have a high-profile job as editor in chief of ibm.com and I'm publishing a book about writing for the Web. Both jobs will soon require me to publish more with blogs, articles and conference presentations. So I thought this was as good a time as any to step away so that I can devote the energy I have put into this blog on those core parts of my job.
Now that I got that out of the way, let's get down to business. For some reason, beat writers, columnists and bloggers feel the need to look at next year almost before finishing the season. Though I still want to savor the miraculous comeback of this team culminating in the greatest regular season game in Metrodome history, I understand this need. It's especially compelling considering that the Twins are leaving the Dome for greener pastures and can expect a sizable revenue increase in the new venue. Everybody wants to talk about it, so lets talk about it.
Question 1: How much can we expect the Twins to spend in 2010?
As John Bonnes shows, the Twins payroll has held pretty steady around a mean of $60 million since 2003. That payroll is a function of the revenue that they got in the Metrodome, which featured the worst lease in major league baseball. That lease gives them only 25 percent of concession revenues and nothing for suites or parking. Oddly enough, the Vikings get the lion's share of suite and concession revenue, and the Star Tribune gets almost all of the parking revenue because they own the lots. Even with this situation, the Twins get something like $160 million in revenue, including TV, radio and Internet broadcasting revenue.
Those crappy aspects of the lease will be changing in 2010, as the Twins will get all suite and concession revenue, and much of the parking revenue. Even if the Twins' attendance is steady in the new stadium at 2.2 million, they can expect at least an additional $20 million in revenue. But the Twins can expect more like 3 million in attendance in their honeymoon year at Target Field. The Twins estimate that they will get an additional $40 million in revenue in 2010. So plan on about $200 million in revenue for 2010, as a rough estimate.
The Twins operate on a budget based on about 50 percent of revenues going to the baseball department, including player salaries. In 2009, the Twins spent the most they had ever spent on international signings (more than $7 million) and a lot more than typical on draft bonuses (around $5 million). Add that to a $65 million budget for major league salaries and about $5 million for minor league operations, and the baseball department came in at $82 million. With 2.2 million in attendance (plus a couple of extra gates), they probably pulled in around $165 million.So their spending was right on track.
Let's say the Twins devote half of the estimated $40 million in new revenue they get in 2010 to the baseball department. That means $20 million more for salaries and signing bonuses. Most of that will likely go to salaries because the Twins will not get additional draft picks from free agents and they are unlikely to spend as lavishly internationally. Prospects like Miguel Angel Sano and Max Kepler only come around every few years. So let's say the Twins will devote all of the $20 million to player salaries, plus about $3 million from the $12 million they spent to sign new talent in 2009. That's $23 million they can spend in salaries over and above what they spent in 2009. Add that to the $65 million they spent in 2009, and the 2010 salaries should be around $88 million.
Question 2: What is committed for 2010?
Rather than recreate the wheel, here we can rely on Bonnes' article again. According to the Twins Geek, the Twins are on the hook for $75 mil in salaries in 2010, making a few assumptions. Namely:
- Glen Perkins will be a former Twin, either in Rochester or working for another organization.
- Boof Bonser will make the team and earn an estimated $1 million as an arbitration-eligible player.
- Both Delmon Young and Carlos Gomez will earn around $1 million in arbitration as well. That last assumption is a bit suspect, as I expect the Twins to try to trade one or the other. But let's say the guy they get for him will cost the same.
- Brendan Harris will be brought back for around $1 million. Meh. They're not likely to nontender him. But if they enhance their infield the way we all hope, they won't have room for him.
- Jesse Crain will not get market rates in arbitration. Market rates for good set-up guys are in the John Rauch arena--$2.7 million. The Geek has Crain's estimated arbitration salary at $1.75 million. Considering his time in AAA and injuries, I'd say that's reasonable.
- Matt Guerrier will get market rates in arbitration, after arguably his best season in his second year of arbitration.
- Besides guaranteed contracts for Justin Morneau, Michael Cuddyer, Nick Punto (!) and others, every other player on the roster will make the minimum salary.
So, assuming Bonnes is on the money with his $75 million estimate, the Twins will be able to add $13 million for a few key acquisitions.
Question 3: How should the Twins spend the extra cash?
Finally, the fun part. Everybody loves to spend other people's money, right? How will the Twins spend the $13 million in extra money for 2010? Note that this is a one-time windfall, because the Twins 2011 salaries look a lot closer to their estimated budgets, when you add raises for Mauer, Morneau and Cuddyer. If the Twins restructure Joe Mauer's contract for 2010 to reduce thier burdens in future years, the $13 million temporary slush fund for 2010 evaporates rather quickly. But let's not go there. Let's hope they sign Mauer to an extension that keeps his $12.5 million 2010 salary in tact.
- Starting pitcher: The Twins can plan on Scott Baker, Nick Blackburn, Kevin Slowey, and Brian (Don't call me Kevin) Duensing as the top four starters. Let's assume they send Francisco Liriano to the bullpen. They will need to sign a starter. Let's also assume they don't blow the whole wad on John Lackey, but spend, say, $6 million, who can they afford? Answer: Carl Pavano.
- Shortstop: My hope is they look for an acquisition here. If they acquired, say JJ Hardy, they would spend $1 million or so to pay him in his first year of arbitration. They could pay that with the money they save in nontendering Harris. If they do sign someone like Orlando Cabrera, plan on a $4 million salary. Other free agents of interest include Jack Wilson, Marco Scutaro, Miguel Tejada, and Adam Everett. Wilson isn't much better than Cabrera. Scutaro is a Type A free agent. Tejada is a possibility for third base, but not short. And we've been there, done that with Everett. Though I favor an acquisition of Hardy, I would bet everything I've ever made writing for this blog that the Twins bring Cabrera back, consuming most of their remaining windfall in the process.
- Second Base: This is where the hope for an acquisition that eases the salary burden at short comes in. There are a lot of good second basemen headed for free agency, including Freddy Sanchez, Orlando Hudson, Placido Polanco and Akinori Iwamura (assuming the Rays decline their club option), Mark DeRosa, and Jamey Carroll. Trouble is, Sanchez, Hudson and Polanco are Type A free agents. So that leaves Iwamura, DeRosa and Carroll, all of those guys can be had for less than $4 mil. My guess? The Twins sign Iwamura for an incentive-laden contract with a $3 mil base. The alternative is Nick Punto as your starter on opening day 2010. Double or nothing we see Cabrera and Punto in the middle infield to start the year.
- Third Base: The Twins could choose to sign a third baseman instead, though, the way Matt Tolbert played in September and October, I would not be surprised if they pencil him in there until Danny Valencia is ready. They also could tender Harris a contract as insurance. But if they choose to sign a third baseman, Adam Kennedy, Iwamura and DeRosa would be inexpensive options.
Bottom line, Twins fans can expect the Twins to use their temporary windfall to keep the team that got them to the playoffs together for at least another year. If they do sign an outside free agent, it will likely be one of the guys left without a deal in February. The short list includes Tejada, Carroll, DeRosa, Kennedy and Iwamura. My bet is on Iwamura. But don't count on him playing everyday until May. It takes 12 months for an ACL tear to fully heal.
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83 comments
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Comments
I would like to see the Twins take a hard look at DeRosa-decent bat and power and can play several spots. He would be a huge upgrade over several who got time this year with the Twins
by coltzfan on Oct 13, 2009 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
With DeRosa
as for most other free agents, it’s a matter of what we’re buying. Offensively, DeRosa is about average, with a career .334 wOBA (.327, .376, .349 the last three years). Defensively, DeRosa is below average for his career, -5.8 UZR at 3B, -7.5 at 2B.
For comparison, Brendan Harris has a career .316 wOBA (.295, .318, .341 last three years) and is a career -6.5 UZR at 2B / -17.0 at 3B. In all, around 10 runs worse than DeRosa offensively over a full season, similar defensively at 2B, another 10 runs worse at 3B.
I like the flexibility DeRosa would provide, insurance for Punto and Valencia would probably be a good idea.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 14, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to thank you ...
… for everything you have brought to this site over the past years. Twinkie Town wouldn’t be, well, the best damn blog in Twinkie Land without you James. It is also understandable that taking care of ones personal business comes first. Congratulations on everything you are involved with and again, THANKS!
Now to next year, I have the Twins with 8 guys signed at $60,250,000. So John’s estimate of $75mm or so is real close to what they will likely be at. My only squabble with your estimates above…disregard. I think I misread what you stated above, you are estimating that they will spend $9mm for 2010 draftees and international signings, correct? That is probably a good estimate. My only other quesiton may be on what their revenue was this year and how much more they will get. Is part of this year’s revenue revenue sharing? If so, that will likely go away…thus, the increase may not be as big as one thinks.
Great Post CMath. We will miss your posts but I know we will still hear from you in the comment sections. Best of luck my friend!
by roger13 on Oct 13, 2009 3:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Roger! Your stuff is a big part of what makes this site great
I was sitting next to a friend at a recent game and he asked me who writes the minor league stuff. I said it was you (mentioned your name) and he said, “No offense, but that’s the main reason I come to your site.”
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 13, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for all of your help over the years, James. We will miss you.
And of course, you’re always welcome back at any time. It’s the crappiest pay you could ask for, but you’re always welcome back.
The Geek is pretty much right on (as usual), and it’s right on par with what we talked about here and here. Two smart sites coming up with roughly the same numbers makes a pretty strong case for where things will sit, as far as I’m concerned.
I’m actually quite interested in Dan Uggla, and I’m sure he’s somebody I’ll write about at least twice over the upcoming off-season. He hits right-handed, hits for power and is pretty decent at being an OBP guy in spite of a relatively unimpressive batting average. He’ll be 30 next season and is still arb-eligible for two years. Like Crede he’s a big fly-ball hitter, but he hits more of those flies over the wall, and is ISO is impressive. He has a good eye at the plate, even though he’s not the best contact hitter in the world. FanGraphs thinks he was worth $13MM this year.
I like Hardy, too. If the Twins could grab Hardy for SS, Uggla for 2B or 3B and keep Carl Pavano around, I would consider that a good off-season.
by Jesse on Oct 13, 2009 3:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uggla
Isn’t he a butcher at second base? Gardy would never go for that.
It might be that I think he is brutal defensively because of his awful All-Star game a couple years back. That made Fred Manrique look like Ryne Sandberg.
by wcooley on Oct 13, 2009 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fred Manrique
Thank you for reminding me that the second base position can always get worse. It can be as bad as Manrique.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 13, 2009 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He isn't as bad as is percieved
about 2.5 runs below average per year. Better than Casilla.
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 13, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That shocks me
Manrique was a tree stump, especially on the old rock-hard turf.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 14, 2009 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla
I think he was talking about Uggla
by wcooley on Oct 14, 2009 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, then, he should be a trade target.
We can always use more power behind Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 14, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha,
I don’t have UZR stats for Manrique in front me;)
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 14, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uggla
Would be a nice option at 2B, but he would be relatively expensive. He made $5.35M last year in his first year of arbitration. One would expect him to be in the $7M+ range next year. Worth the money though, significant upgrade over what we currently have. It’d be a trade, so we have to consider that.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 14, 2009 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dollars
The Twins might actually be in the catbird seat coming into 2010. I read somewhere that major league attendance, on the whole, suffered like 4%. That the Twins ahd increased attendance has to bear well with this season, and the prospect of basically pre-selling the stadium for 2010 and reaching 3 million patrons has to have management salivating. Remember, the Twins have the potential to bank a good chunk of change before the season even begins…none of this massive walk-up sales and stuff.
Add in concessions, signage, some parking and better marketing. Whew!
I always find disagreements with this 52% figure that Jim Pohlad, I believe, threw out.
Any business, you have basic overhead costs. With the Twins managing a club and selling 3 million tickets, well, the cost of operations is not that much different than running a club and selling 2 million tickets. They might actually save money on gameday operations in the long run, or have the people working on customer relations, which would be a plus.
Minor leagues has a pretty set budget, as does scouting. You may spend more signing folks…and the Twins went overboard in 2009 comapred to previous years. If this area, as well as siging bonuses for stars, stays the same…well…they stay the same.
But if the Twins, say, increase revenue up to $50 million, do they automatically spend $25 million more on operations and scouting and bonus stuff, leaving only $25 million for product, which I call the players. Or do they actually have $50 million to spend on on-field product. I say they have the $50 million. If they choose to set some aside for draft picks, or give Mauer a $30 million signing bonus, well that is fine and dandy.
Interesting economic outlook on the team….
One, Delmon Young gets more than a million due to the contract he signed that went thru his arbitration years.
Two, you can’t cut a player more than 20%. It seldom happens, but wouldn’t it be great if you could cut Crain, Liriano and Perkins 20%…which isn’t much considered their status and they could get it all back and more with a dynamite season.
Brendan Harris will cost a million. With $4 million already tied up in backup infielder Nick Punto, is he worth it if a comparable replacement is in place (i.e. Tolbert).
The Twins may be unqiue in that their bullpen costs more than the starting rotation. Besides Nathan, you have three $2+ guys in Crain, Guerrier and Rauch. Not to mention what do you pay the aging Mahay.
Do you sign Boof and Neshek to longterm contracts? Do they give you an “injured season” bargain rate? I still marvel that a player can get a substantial raise after sitting out a year. Neshek has options, I believe, so he’ll be able to start the season in the minors.
Look to signing guys (like the Cuddy extension) with the hopes of sending them elsewhere mid-season. If you can’t send Gomez down for most of the year, I would still keep Young. He is cheap and should become more valuable and still be affordable until the Young Guys emerge from AA and A ball.
The Twins have a solid core. They really do.
And they have a pipeline of pitchers that should allow you to lose one of the past starting five, or even two, each of the next few years…repalced by non-arbitration or non free-agent talent.
But back to the 52%. If I sell $100,000 this year, and $200,000 next year…my overhead doesn’t increase unless I add staff, except for the more product I have to buy. And considering baseball product is players, that’s where the money needs to go…not fancier phone systems, office furniture, better stationary, matching shirts for the staff, bigger cars to drive around….
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Oct 13, 2009 4:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for all the work you've put into the site cmath
I’m glad to hear you’ll still be around the comment section
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 13, 2009 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pavano for $6 M
I say no thank you. Ante up for either Harden or Sheets.
by Milt on Tilt on Oct 13, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pavano was worth three times that this year
obviously, there are still injury concerns, but 6 mil is a steal.
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 13, 2009 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather have Pavano for $6M
than Sheets / Harden for more years and more per year (likely).
After this season, I bet Pavano cashes in for better than a 1 year / $6M contract.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 14, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pavano
Will ne an interesting watch. One full season have a string of partials. He’s still like Crede. Do we get the healthy guy or will he be injured…especially if he doesn’t have anything to prove. I think Pavano may be in line for another single-year contract with incentives, maybe an option for year 2.
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Oct 15, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm more confident Pavano's injuries are behind him than Crede's
Crede hasn’t had a full healthy season since 2006.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 15, 2009 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be happy if we upgraded in 2 infield positions
and put punto at the other one. Iwamura, Hardy, Crede, Wilson, Carrol and Kennedy are all potential targets that project to be league average or better and don’t come with a huge price tag. Obviously Hardy would be through trade. If the price is right on any of these guys, they should pull the trigger.
I’d stay away from Scutaro – that’s a big “buy high” and you can’t expect him to perform anywhere near the level he did last year. Also he’s type A.
Ocab, despite Ron Darling’s claims that he carried us to the playoffs, is not an upgrade, or much of an upgrade, over the Puntos and Harrises of the world.
Matt Tolbert should not be even considered for a starting job if we want to contend, and either should Casilla.
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 13, 2009 8:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The extra $$ goes to profit
They’ve been waiting for the windfall for years.
Orlando Cabrera is a more expensive version of Brendan Harris at this point. They have the same bat and close to the same glove. Cabrera is declining and middle infielders decline quickly; Harris should hold steady at his age. They need an infield that can really field. Fielding is still underpaid in arbitration even though MLB clubs have figured out the value.
I really like having Cuddyer around but I wonder what another team would give up for him. They could sell high on him and possibly get their SP and an infielder. This roster has 3 right fielders and no SS, 2B or 3B. They need to decide on Kubel, Cuddyer and Young – you only keep 2 of them. Who to trade depends on what is offered. Ideally someone wants Young or Kubel and their OF is Span / Gomez / Cuddyer with DH filled by Mauer and the other OF. I think they have to take the best offer around though, especially if it fills a hole. The best offer might be for Cuddy. Then they look for a bench bat off the free agent market.
Here’s a fun thing to consider. This team has the potential to pick up veteran ballplayers on the cheap. They’re contenders, they have a new stadium with a short porch in RF (ideal for LHB) and they have the best shot at the playoffs of any team that isn’t BOS/NYY/LAA.
by DJL44 on Oct 13, 2009 8:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good post.
I agree that Cuddyer, or anyone else (besides Mauer) should be traded if enough value is coming in return. If some team thinks that Cuddy will contintue to produce at this level, and ignores his poor defense, we might snag a legitimate SP or SS. I love the guy, and would hate to see him go, but the Twins need AT LEAST 2 new infielders, and they need to do what it takes to get them.
I was hoping someone would see Delmon’s late season surge and listen to Ron Darling gush about him (Darling actually made it sound like we “won” the Garza/Delmon trade!) and want to give up some value for him. Seems unlikely, but I’ll keep dreaming…
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 13, 2009 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just 1 BIG correction
You are a long ways off on JJ’s salary projection if the Twins do choose to pursue him. He has already begun his arbitration years and made 4.65MM this year. Even with his shitty year, I doubt he sees a pay cut and at minimum he has to get payed 3.72MM. He was actually scheduled to be a FA following 2010, but the Brewers sent him down for 20 days in August to “just” cut his service time enough to steal a year of his free agency. This increased his trade value because he’s under team control for two years rather than one, but he’s still relatively expensive if you were hoping to have a cheap middle infield.
All in all, a great post though.
Fuck tOSU
by ajs1122 on Oct 13, 2009 8:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
4 million is a steal for someone like Hardy
So, while your point stands, Hardy is still at the top of my wish list.
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 13, 2009 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't trade Cuddyer
Unless you can come up with someone who really hits lefthanders well, Cuddyer shouldn’t be traded. Mauer and Morneau are great players, when healthy, but both of them suffer a bit when facing a lefthander. Kubel had a .644 OPS vs. lefties while OPSing 1.013 vs. righthanders. Already Mauer and Morneau have faced more lefthanders than anybody in the last two years. Having someone (Cuddyer) to crush lefthanders helps the club immensely. On top of that, Michael is a real team guy. Yes, I understand the positional problem and I understand the financial benefit of trading a relatively high-priced player, but Cuddyer benefits this team for more than his good numbers indicate.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 13, 2009 11:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cabrera > Harris
Anyone that looks deeper than batting average can see flaws in O-Cab. He doesn’t get on base much, has average at best power and has diminished as a defender by every metric. That said, he gets better later in the season. He is a far better player than Harris. The more Harris plays, the more his flaws show. The more Cabrera plays, the more his strengths show (at least for the Twins this year).
While I don’t favor re-signing Cabrera (I’d much rather see Hardy), I wouldn’t be brokenhearted if the Twins did re-sign him. He’ll play a lot of games and get more than his share of key hits. He’ll also not get to a lot of balls that most SSs get to, and his OBP will be low. A team can win a division (or more) with Cabrera as the SS. I wouldn’t say the same for Punto or Harris.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 13, 2009 11:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would agree, but only depending on cost of signing O-Cab
I do think that he is a better option than Punto or Harris, but we also have to look at how much money he would ask for. I’d rather spend the money improving another position than on signing O-Cab if it is $4 million, like cmath guessed.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 14, 2009 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
4 mil for O-Cab is much better than 4 Mil for Punto
Vikings 4 the superbowl
by RaysOfHope on Oct 14, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very, very true.
but unfortunately, we already have to pay Punto.
"Baseball doesn't owe me a thing. I owe my whole life to baseball." -Kirby Puckett
by fischean on Oct 14, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
O-Cab
it really depends on whether his defensive dropoff was due to age and losing a step, or if it was due to the leg (hammy?) injury that nagged him much of the year.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 14, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same difference
Part of being 35 is not getting over those nagging injuries so quickly and getting them more often. Cabrera might be > Harris right now but can you project that into next year? How about 2011?
by DJL44 on Oct 14, 2009 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm certainly not convinced that Cabrera > Harris
and I agree that at 35, we should not expect him to recapture the range he used to show.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 15, 2009 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My wish list:
Stephen Drew is going to be on the block. Id love to see the Twins get him. Had a down year offensively but has made huge strides with the glove and has tons of potential.
Dan Uggla. I don’t know what it would take to get him, but it would be nice to have him split up the lefties. That would be 5 guys who can hit 25-30 HR in the lineup. And, since Uggla isn’t good at 2B, Id like to let him at least have a crack at third.
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
by fetch9 on Oct 13, 2009 11:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
I could go for those moves. In that situation, are you thinking Punto at 2B, or go for a free agent?
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Oct 14, 2009 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking at the numbers a little more
I would go Punto. His defensive numbers are worst at 2nd, so hell maybe him at short and Drew at 2nd. Although I doubt he’d go for that too well.
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
by fetch9 on Oct 15, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be ecstatic with Drew-Uggla
up the middle. Let Harris, Punto and Valencia battle it out for 3B.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 14, 2009 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cuddyer for Uggla?
It’s cost neutral and the Marlins will be looking for a 1B to replace Nick Johnson.
by DJL44 on Oct 14, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cost-neutral
Would the Marlins want a cost-neutral swap? I was under the impression that the primary reason Uggla’s on the block is because the Marlins have no money.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Oct 15, 2009 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
I doubt they would go for Cuddyer, Florida wants to save money. I’d love it if they would go for Delmon as part of a package for Uggla, but doubt they’d go for that.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 15, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Value for Crain and Guerrier
Probably isn’t great, but it seems like the bullpen is kind of expensive. Barring a trade of Nathan, which won’t happen, I have to think at least one of those guys will be gone, with Delaney, Slama, and Burnett waiting.
by Han Joelo on Oct 14, 2009 8:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I think Crain has some value. Teams looking for a future closer and not wanting to pay for an existing closer might see him in that role, considering how he pitched int eh last two months. Guerrier has less value, imo, because he’s a set-up guy making the going rate for those guys.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 14, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would add Morillo to your list
He made a lot of progress after they sent him down to work with Bobby Cuellar. Here are his numbers from Rochester;
67 IP 87 K 53 BB 1 HR 3.13 FIP
He still has too many walks. But I’d rather have him out there than Juan Cruz. When you really need an out, he can get a K.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 14, 2009 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scares me too
we saw way too many walks from our relievers last year. Mijares, in particular, needed to be yanked any time the bases were loaded.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 15, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Mijares different?
I may be imaging things but Mijares’ control seemed to be much worse after the incident in Detroit. In the Yankees series I don’t remember him throwing anything that was close to inside to anyone.
by coltzfan on Oct 15, 2009 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expensve bullpen
The Twins have to think if Joe Nathan is the long-term solution, or do they trade off his contract.
Who repalces him. Guerrier or Crain could take the step and do it for $5-6 million for a few years. But you need another season of Crain. Pictrue the Twins will probably try to negotiate a two-year extension with Crain for roughly what he made last season. Guerrier will get arbitration.
They still have Neshek in the wings.
And Slama and Delaney.
If nothing else, it means that Nathan will be tradebait if the Twins slump in 2010.
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Oct 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Burnett...
…who may be the best next closer coming up through the system. He won’t be ready to start next year, but by mid-season or September he could get his chance. I have always been high on both Delaney and Slama (who wouldn’t be with their minor league numbers), but Burnett looks like he could be special. Has only closed for a year, so next year will be very important…especially when he moves up to AAA.
by roger13 on Oct 15, 2009 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Cmath
For all that you’ve brought to this site. You’ve been a huge part of what originally brought me to this site as a lurker, commenter, fan poster, and finally a writer here. Always reasonable analysis, well split between a “scout” and “numbers” perspective.
As we say in the Navy, fair winds and following seas to you on your new endeavour. I hope you will be able to post from time to time next year.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 14, 2009 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
As you know, I’m a big fan of your work. I’ll continue to follow your analysis with keen interest.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 14, 2009 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im also a rays fan, i think Aki will be fine come spring training
he didnt fully tear the ACL, and he was playing almost everyday for the rays in september.
how about a Crain/Wilson Ramos trade for Aki and Bartlett? i think Brignac is going to be better than Bartlett
Vikings 4 the superbowl
by RaysOfHope on Oct 14, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
whats your guys thoughts on this?
rays need catching and another arm for the bullpen and have lots of middle infield depth with Brignac and sean Rodriguez able to step right in and probably outplay those two.
twins would get Barty back and Aki would look great in a twins uni, i love him but the rays dont really have a spot for him, when they have much cheaper options.
Vikings 4 the superbowl
by RaysOfHope on Oct 14, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could see it for Brignac and Aki for Ramos alone
Not Bartlett. He’s in decline. Ramos is a very valuable chip. Think a bigger, stronger version of Russell Martin.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 14, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya im very high on Ramos
i think Bartlett will be traded this offseason to someone who will buy high on him, i dont see brignac being traded as i think he is going to be the SS before beckham
Vikings 4 the superbowl
by RaysOfHope on Oct 14, 2009 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my opinion...
…Ramos should be untouchable. He is a future regular all-star in waiting. First four games in Venezuela this winter…two with a double and home run. This kid ain’t going anywhere!
by roger13 on Oct 15, 2009 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my thoughts
i for one would rather see a trade for a ace type pitcher before we trade for jj hardy maybe a guy like josh johnson from the marlins. im not sold on pavano for the long stretch will he hold up? i would rather see the 6+ million spent on a guy who will be around for awhile and we can rely on being healthy. i also wonder how sold the twins are on danny valencia on 3rd if hes our guy of the future are we going to start him this year and how will it affect our approach of a 3rd to the free agent market. 2nd is pretty deep for free agents this year. i wouldnt be against platooning ss between punto and harris if we can grab a solid 2nd baseman. but we are deep in pitchers and outfield so we have plenty of trade bait to answer a couple area’s of need.
by duluthtwinsguy on Oct 14, 2009 5:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If Josh Johnson is traded
it’ll be interesting to see what it would take
by Salty on Oct 14, 2009 9:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Starting pitching is not nearly as important as upgrading the infield at this point.
We have about 8 guys who have the POTENTIAL to be valuable starting pitchers. Not saying we have 8 quality starting pitchers, just that we have a lot of decent young arms, and its not that unlikely that Baker Slowey Blackburn Duensing Liriano would be the best rotation in the division. Swarzak, Manship, and Perkins all also have a chance to be all right. Tolbert/Punto/Casilla/Harris his NO chance of being even league average. These guys have to be our top priority. I’d like us to sign a pitcher, but not if it means seeing Tol-bear’s name in the starting lineup.
As far as Valencia goes, his OBP was .305! in AAA! He is not ready for the majors yet. He has potential to be a good player, but there is no way we can count on him next year.
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 14, 2009 10:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad PECOTA for Valencia
Predicted a 74 OPS+. That’s like Punto anyway.
by DJL44 on Oct 14, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not a big Pecota fan
There’s a high signal to noise ratio with their projections. I don’t think he’d be much better than 100 OPS+, but as a right-handed platoon player getting his first experience against pitchers who don’t know his tendencies, I’d be surprised if he’s below 90.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 15, 2009 12:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.305 OBP?
Holy cow… As anxious as everyone has been to get Valencia to Minneapolis, I figured he was tearing things up in Rochester. I just looked up the stats to see what I’d missed, and he managed that horrible OBP with a .286 average – he had 8 walks in 282 plate appearances. Just… wow. He had a pretty good walk rate in AA, though, so maybe he just got nervous and overly aggressive after his promotion, for the entire second half of the season.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Oct 15, 2009 2:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, his OBP overall last year was .350
between Rochester and New Britain. He slumped at the wrong time, as far as his season-ending stats go.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 15, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consistent, from what I remember
When Valencia moves up a level, his patience drops for a time, then picks up as he gets more comfortable. I seem to remember this happening in 2008 going from A+ to AA.
For example, in 2008 moving to AA for the first time, Valencia walked 18 times in 266 AB (.334 OBP). In 2009, he walked 31 times in 218 AB (.373 OBP), with almost the same batting average. This shows he may benefit from starting the year in AAA. The same thing happened in 2007, moving from A to A+ (42 point from in OBP despite a, 11 point from in AVG).
by Adam Peterson on Oct 15, 2009 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
I was just about to respond to cmathewson’s post asking if there was any sort of explanation for his sudden inability to take a walk. That helps a lot, and makes me a bit less skeptical of Valencia. His BA/SLG at AAA looked okay, so if he can start taking walks again, he can be solid.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Oct 15, 2009 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it's a pattern
It will happen again when he’s promoted to the majors.
by DJL44 on Oct 15, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yeah
But theoretically he’d then improve after the first half-year of no walks.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Oct 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but AAA was the opposite
He started out like a house a fire, hitting everything. In the first two weeks in AAA, he was hitting .400.
This led to his slump, however, as he had abandoned his normally patient ways when the ball looked like a softball. When it began to look like a ping-pong ball, he was all out of whack without walks to rely on when hits became scarce.
Hopefully, he’ll get back to his 5 pitch per at bat habits in the spring and be better suited to weathering the inevitable slumps.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Oct 15, 2009 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I don't expect this walk rate going forward,
but he needs at least a half year in the minors still, probably a full year. We need to sign someone for one year, and if he plays well enough to make it so we can’t keep him in the minors anymore, then that’s a good problem to have.
by lookatthosetwins on Oct 15, 2009 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I agree. We can have a slightly above average rotation, with Baker-Slowey-Blackburn + two of the others. At this point, Tolbert/Harris/Buscher, Punto and Casilla are our infielders. I think we need two additions, minimum, I can live with Punto filling the other spot if we upgrade two.
Valencia will be part of the mix, but I agree, we should not count on him just yet.
by Adam Peterson on Oct 15, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam...
…Agree 100% with the above. Have one big problem, however. The Twins have an overabundance of guys that all should be a teams 25th player. We have what, four on this squad (Casilla, Tolbert, Buscher, Harris) and Punto who I am ok with at second base if the other side of the IF is good. My question is, how do the Twins free themselves of at least two of these? The other problem with having them all is that they are clogging up the 40-man roster which may expose someone to the Rule V draft, someone who someday will be pretty good?
by roger13 on Oct 15, 2009 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
upgrade with a trade
but you have to give up something good to get something good
by Salty on Oct 15, 2009 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i can go with that
well if we are going to trade for someone other than a pitcher than id like to see us go after Yunel Escobar i know it would take more to get him from the braves but they tried at the trade deadline to move him and he would make a killer #2 hitter span, escobar, mauer, morneau think of all the runs… by no means am i against hardy just dont think it would take much more to get escobar just because hardy had a off year doesnt mean the brewers are going to give the guy away. but if they are looking for arms we have plenty around and could still have delmon and a couple others we could part with on the trade front. but what ever happens we all know we will be putting a better team on target field than when we left the dome. im sure smith and company will have some surprises in store this off season should be fun.
by duluthtwinsguy on Oct 14, 2009 11:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What we need......
We need more power from2B, SS, #B, CF than what we currently have on the roster, especially if Span displaces Young in LF (Young should be a 15-20 HR guy kinimum….Span will do 8). We need a basher at 3B. We can live with Cabrera’s 8-10 at SS. We can’t live with Punto “0” at 2B…and Gomez needs to show a bit more extra-base incentives.
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Oct 15, 2009 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
I’d rather see more defense from SS and 3B with the same power (OBP can’t hurt though). Part of why Crede was winning them ballgames was his glove. The Twins have enough power, they need defense up the middle. Power costs $$, esp in arbitration. Go for walks and defense and outsmart the arbiter.
by DJL44 on Oct 15, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.....
Crede was a stud for 90 games with his glove. THAT is ahrd to find. There are a number of 15-20 homer, less than .250 third basemen, but they need someone wide-ranging at shortstop.
Yet, some of US think Cuddyer could play third quite well (until mauer moves there, that is).
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Oct 15, 2009 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This year's Crede
Adrian Beltre has a good glove and might settle for a 1 year make-good deal. He’s a great fit. Iwamura is in that category also but can play 2B too.
I like Jack Wilson if the Mariners decline his option.
by DJL44 on Oct 19, 2009 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good luck with everything CMath
I enjoyed your writing here. Good to see you’ll still be dropping in from time to time.
by matty_b on Oct 15, 2009 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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