Twins Second Base In 2010: The Devil You Know?
Stop me if you've heard this off-season story before...the Twins have an opening at second base.
When the Twins traded Luis Castillo at the 2007 trade deadline, it was seen as a curious but defendable action. Since then second base has been a carousel of mediocrity, with Minnesota starting Nick Punto, Alexi Casilla and Luis Rodriguez the rest of the way in just '07. '08 began with Brendan Harris and Matt Tolbert before Casilla and Punto and even Matt Macri saw starts. This past season saw the usual suspects cover the position once again, and while no new names were pulled from the hat it still means there were six guys getting starts over the last two-and-a-half seasons at second base.
It's difficult to be too hard on the front office for not bringing in an everyday second baseman last year. Punto had proven himself to be a versatile and valuable glove man over the years, even if 2009 wasn't as strong. Casilla has been, for the last two years, the guy that the organization has wanted to step into the role long-term. And as far as versatile swingmen are concerned, you could do worse than Harris. Additionally, as a position that typically doesn't provide a lot of offense, it kind of made sense that the vacancy at second base sort of fell to a secondary concern last winter.
Moving into 2010 it's impossible to not see second base as a primary concern. While the Devil You Know, or Devils, will still be around, their cumulative performance was one of the worse in baseball this season. Twins second basemen hit a combined .209/.302/.267 in 2009, with their .569 OPS by far the worse in the game. San Francisco's combined .611 OPS was good for a distant 29th.
Defensively the prospects weren't much brighter. As a group Twins second basemen accumulated a -7.0 UZR/150, 28th in the league. A -10.4 RngR was only slightly better at 27th.
The tricky bit, the part that sneaks into my brain and every other optimist's brain out there, is the bit that says Well, there's still some upside here. Casilla's still young, Punto finished strong at the plate and actually played strong defense down the stretch to end the year as the only Minnesota second baseman to finish the season with a UZR/150 not in the negative. Aye, that's the rub. THE RUB!
For the third consecutive season, the Minnesota Twins enter the off-season without an incumbant at any of the three infield positions to the left of first base. Each of the last two years I've said the exact same thing: as long as they fill two of those three spots with a quality player, I'll be happy. But even saying that I knew that second base wasn't the biggest concern. For the first time in these three years, I believe that it's just as important for the Twins to improve at second base as it is for them to solve their issues at third and short.
But with so many internal options available the organization will need to be creative if they aren't going to go the route that most of us expect them to take. If they want to think outside the box and go for a guy like Dan Uggla or Kelly Johnson, the trend of internal promotion that's plugged the gap in the middle infield over the last couple years will need to be bucked and some of those familiar faces, the Punto's and Casilla's and Harris's's's and Tolbert's, would likely find themselves donning new uniforms in 2010.
I'm hoping that the organization takes a few calculated gambles this off-season. I would like nothing more than to see this team make a move for a guy they believe can start 130 games at second base next year; not just start but own the position. He doesn't have to be an All-Star or a Gold Glove winner, but some value on at least one side of the ball would constitute an upgrade. That's what I want.
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The Twins
Valencia will play 3B almost guaranteed. The Twins need a SS too. They will probably look to make a move for the pitching staff (Pavano would be a good choice, imo). After getting a MI and a pitcher, does anyone think they’ll have the resources left to end up with someone OTHER than Punto starting at MI?
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
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by AdamOnFirst on Oct 21, 2009 8:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
infield
I don’t think you can look at 2B in a vacuum. I don’t want to hand Punto anything. He did play well down the stretch, and if 2010 Punto looks like 2006 or 2008, he will be starting somewhere. I think, however, he’s best served as a utility guy that you can plug in to fill a hole. He responds better when that happens too. I’ve soured on Casilla. I wouldn’t mind seeing Tolleson or Dinkleman get a shot, but the reality is that in their rookie seasons, they will at best be league average. That isn’t necessarily a bad thing, but at the same time, they could do exactly what we had this year and we are back to square one. I do think that Brendan Harris should be starting every day at 2nd, but Gardy seems to want none of that.
I guess I see a few options. I think we can reasonably aquire JJ Hardy, and I think we should do that. Going after Chipper Jones or Adrian Beltre at 3rd would be nice too. I also would like an ace, but I’m guessing that getting Halliday or spending money on Bedard or Harden might make it difficult to do any reasonable signings. In my ideal world I’d consider trading Nathan to the cubs for Fox (3B), Baker (2B), prospect and then spend the money saved on a big ace. I’d still trade for Hardy… Not sure we could pull all that off though.
by diehardtwinsfan on Oct 21, 2009 9:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One does have to look at second base
in the context of the rest of the (non 1B) infield. I don’t like any of the internal options as starters at any of the 3 positions, but realistically, at least one, and possibly all 3 (though that would be a failure) will be manned by the incumbents. Of course, the incumbents provide significant flexibility since they all can play multiple positions, so the Twins can look for the best external options at any of the positions. There seems to be a decent group of free agent second basemen available. I doubt they go this route, but someday the Twins need to accept that signing a type A free agent once a decade isn’t necessarily the work of the devil.
by Eric in Madison on Oct 21, 2009 9:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura
On the radio today La Velle aid that Iwamura is someone the twins are targeting.
by clutterheart on Oct 21, 2009 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Of course
because he won’t require compensation.
My ideal situation would be to sign Hudson to a 2 year deal, trade for Hardy, and play Valencia at 3rd base if he’s ready, or fill in with Harris/Punto until he is.
I think that would add significant depth to the lineup. Hardy won’t come for nothing, though.
by Eric in Madison on Oct 21, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
Casilla was the incumbent at second coming into 2009. He had played close to every day from early May at second except for his time on the DL.
Last season was a bad setback for Alexi, but he played well after his second recall. Because he stunk up the place, he needs to win second base again. I think Casilla can come back in a big way, but I understand that he might not get the opportunity right away.
Defensively, my eyes told me that Casilla was a better than average second sacker. He has a real rough patch in the field just before he was benched and demoted, but very early and late he was a good defender at second. I know the stats say his range was below average. I still wonder how much that has to do with playing 90 games on artificial turf where the ball scoots past if not hit directly at the fielder.
I think that only one of the little guys (Casilla, Punto, Tolbert) should be a regular. Personally, I favor Casilla, in large part because of his ability to steal bases. Come up with a shortstop (Hardy, Drew or O-Cab) and have either Harris or Valencia start at third (I prefer Valencia) and go with the best of the little guys at second.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 21, 2009 10:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"he played well after his second recall"
.222/.313/.291
I don’t know if I would consider that playing well.
by Milt on Tilt on Oct 21, 2009 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unbiased cmmntary
From a guy whose SN is Alexei Casilla Allstar
by onthekubelwagen on Oct 21, 2009 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AAA
I would not mind seeing Casilla given one more chance.
He hit well when he was sent down.
But he came up and did not.
I think he has the talent to hit, and if he keeps his head he can field.
by clutterheart on Oct 22, 2009 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Infield Defense at the Dome
I know the stats say his range was below average. I still wonder how much that has to do with playing 90 games on artificial turf where the ball scoots past if not hit directly at the fielder.
Punto’s career UZR is above average at second base and way above average at third and short. I’m not sure Casilla can get away with blaming the turf for his range. Does anyone know where to find home/away UZR splits? I can’t find it on FanGraphs. I will note that Luis Castillo’s UZR dropped a bunch when he came to Minnesota, but it didn’t go back up at all when he left for the Mets, so it was probably a legitimate decline.
I am as eager to give Casilla another shot as I am Luis Rivas.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Oct 22, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember Hardy saying something about how he likes defending on turf when he played there. The ball scoots, but more true bounces for the 1st baseman as well as the fielder.
by Salty on Oct 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe fewer slow roller type hits as well.
by Salty on Oct 22, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m sorry, but the very idea that someone would watch Alexi Casilla play defense, and then look at questionable at best defensive “statistics,” and conclude that Casilla has below average range is, how you say, ridiculous.
by Klobs on Oct 24, 2009 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we need
a SS, 2b, 3b, and SP. I am ok with us letting either Valencia or Casilla get the tryout next year and letting “the devil you know” be the stand by players. Filling 4 positions could be costly, Pavano at 6 million, Cabrera at 4 million then either a 2b or 3b. But I hope we don’t do both at the same time. There are so many names to throw out there right now. I would be happy with 3 of the 4 holes covered cause I believe that “the devil I know” can handle what is needed or atleast be covered by everyone elses production.
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by doofus on Oct 21, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If they upgrade the other positions it won’t feel so bad having punto or casilla playing 2nd.
by TrevorR on Oct 23, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Iwamura at 2nd
and batting 2nd.
Read somewhere that a noted Mariners blogger advocated Brandon Morrow for J.J. Hardy. First of all, what is the infatuation with this guy? Second of all, if he is really worth Morrow, what do the Twins have to offer that is comparable?
by Han Joelo on Oct 22, 2009 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura
Another lefty at the top of the order? Man, that would be five in a row at the top of the order and probably three rights and a switch hitter. I don’t like that kind of imbalance.
I wouldn’t mind if the Twins did get Iwamura, though. He is a decent hitter and fielder. He broke in with the Rays as a 3B, so I suppose he could move over there if Casilla/Punto/Tolbert really started to hit.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 22, 2009 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also like Iwamura
If they got Iwamura for 2B, Beltre for 3B, Hardy for SS and Doug Davis for the pitching staff while keeping Punto and Harris on the bench and signing Mauer to an extension I’d give them an A+ for the offseason. That scenario (or a similar one) is possible.
by DJL44 on Oct 22, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura (Rock town) is rock solid on fundamentals...
…like all Japanese players for that matter. He’s quick and swings the bat very well. I doubt if the Twins will go after him, but I’d be all for it if they did.
PS-He also has some pop in his bat but he really hasn’t been much of a home run hitter in the MLB yet, but he has the possibility to hit somewhere around 15 homers if he’s swinging the bat well.
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by Skippy tastes better than Jiff on Oct 23, 2009 4:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the translation for "Iwamura"?
“Rock Town” would immediately become the best nickname on the Twins. I’m officially on board with acquiring him.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Oct 23, 2009 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get some quality now
The Twins need to step up and make some moves. Either go out and get some help or they’ll be stuck as perpetual Al Central winners and swept in the ALDS. Let’s face it, they couldn’t have beat any of the other teams in the playoffs. It would be a waste for them to scrimp and save when they have proven talent and adding 2-3 quality players will put them over the top. The Twins have a history of doing this and having success. In 91 they went out and got a proven ace, Jack Morris, a 3rd baseman, Pags, and a big bat, DH Chili Davis. It paid off big. Now they need an ace, a 3rd baseman, and maybe a SS or 2nd baseman. But getting an ace should be their top priority. Pavano is not an ace. If he stays healthy for a full season next year would be a big turnaroud for him (2 seasons in a row). Go get Bedard or someone of his pedigree to anchor the staff. Baker, Slowey, Blackburn are good, but not aces (Blackburn is emerging as the closest to an ace of all). I think O-Cab at ss would be fine with the grass infield to slow things down for him. All they have to do is fill the holes at 3rd and 2nd with a quality player. Someone like Orlando Hudson or Uggla would be great at 2nd. Then I could live with Harris (his glove at 3rd is terrible) or Tolbert at 3rd. But going another year without an ace to anchor the starting pitching will be anohter year of being swept in the ALDS, if they get that far….
by OldTwinkiesFan on Oct 22, 2009 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Aki has an team option
I’d be surprised if the Rays decline it.
Shortstop is the bigger issue. If they can only afford one, they’ll sign or acquire a shortstop and try to work within at second.
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by cmathewson on Oct 22, 2009 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't they already have
Bartlett, Brignac, Aybar, and Zobrist to play second and short. I know Aybar moved over to first after Pena was injured and Zobrist played all over, but that is probably too many that can man the middle infield. It also presents the Rays an opportunity to move one of those guys.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 22, 2009 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see no way they don't pick it up
the Rays will pick it up and then trade him. The option is for less than $5 Million I believe. There will plenty of teams that will trade something for Iwamura at that price. Otherwise the Rays get no compensation for his departure as he isn’t even a B player.
by Milt on Tilt on Oct 22, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura option
If they pick it up it is only because they have a trade already worked out. Once they pick up the option they have to trade him because they really need to dump the salary. I would guess the option is picked up with the understanding that some other team is paying for it. Perhaps the trade happens before the option is exercised with the new team actually exercising the option.
by DJL44 on Oct 22, 2009 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
you can just put him on waivers. Someone would claim him.
And worst case scenario? They keep him around, keep Sean in AAA until midseason and then trade him.
by Milt on Tilt on Oct 22, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins need to get a regular SS
I agree wholeheartedly that SS is the infield position of need. I don’t think Punto would last (he didn’t last year) at short and no one else is under contract. It would be very good for the rest of the infield to have one guy at short for 150+ games. If that guy actually could hit a little bit for power it would be that much better.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Oct 22, 2009 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Picture
Yes, Valencia COULD be the third abseman of the future. If not, you have to think about who plays in 2010 before you find someone in the marketplace for 2011. That means possibly keeping Harris/Tolbert around. Or maybe Luke Hughes. Right now the Twins have to add Valencia, make a million-dollar decision on Harris, or allow Tolbert and Hughes the right to sign elsewhere if removed from the 40-man. Besides Valencia, is there ANYONE in the system pegged as a started for 2011-2012-2013?
Shortstop. Shades of Adam Everett, Cabrerra may be the best choice, if you can get him for two years. He starts, he plays, he does many things right. Is Ploufe ready? Maybe on par with Cabrerra, making Orlando expendable in mid-season or tradebait in the winter. Maybe Plouffe becomes traidbait. If anything, I see the Twins keeping their options on Plouffe and him drifting into the reserve role over such stalwarts as Tolleson, Singleton, Dinkelman or Gardenhire…all who will be with the Twins a couple more years or should be gone this year.
2nd Base. Do you give up on Alexi, and let him wander the majors. Hey, Luis Rivas is still out there, under 30, and constantly finding AAAA work. Some team will give him a shot (he has to be as good as Luis Rodriguez and Augie Ojeda…man!). The Twins, more than likely, feel the urge to keep Punto around and working, since they invested in him for another season (were the Phillies even thinking about offering Punto half of what the Twins did alst season). Of course, management is happy to say Punto is a starter disguised as a backup guy. He’s the literal ace-in-the-hole the Twins can go to any season when they have a need on the left-side. Someone goes down…hey, no fear, the Punto-plug is here.
If the Twins can sign a second baseman, it pretty much is the kiss-of-death for Tolleson, Dinkelman and/or Singleton, not to mention Tolbert and Harris. With Plouffe and Punto being backups to any major signings…well, clean house of also-rans.
If the Twins do go with Valencia, they need proven experience at the other two positions, especially considering any outcome of the Gomez/Young situation.
They need to strongly rethink backup. Is Tolbert as good as Harris for half-the-price, for now? Punto is a mainstay? Is the 2011 backup pricetag Toby Grdenhire basically repalcing Punto in 2011. If Valencia doesn’t pan out or is hurt, do you strongly consider moving Cuddyer to third, or Mauer (will Ramos become the new Twins catcher with names like Pinto and Rams as the backup candidates)?
And is Mauer a $20 million a year catcher, but does his value actually decrease if you move him elsewhere, sooner rather than later?
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by rosterman on Oct 22, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Twins will
keep Punto at second base. Gardy loves Punto and will talk him up to Bill Smith that Punto can start there. Remember they said Punto would be our starting SS this year. The Twins may make a run for Iwamura or another B Agent, which would be nice, but I think the Twins liked what Punto did down the stretch, and for the money they are paying him, will likely give him a starting role for another year.
The Twins will also likely sign Cabrera at short-stop. He was a great fit in the clubhouse and wants to stay with the team. His defense shouldn’t be as bad away from the metrodome turf, while his offense remains steady, most-likely dropping a bit, but his infield leadership was what the twins were lacking. It would be nice to see the twins make a move to try and acquire J.J. hardy – then signing him till Sano is ready. Throw in Perkins, Crain’s rights, and 1-2 pitching prospects. This would be my direction.
Give Valencia a shot. Let Tollbert/Harris start, if Valencia needs a month or 2 in AAA. If nothing works out, then try to acquire someone during the season. This is if they feel that Valencia is ready. If they don’t, Crede would be nice again. I somehow feel that the metrodome ground had something to do with his back problems again. We could probably snag him around the same time during spring training, as i see teams leary again like they were last year. He will have to sign another 1 year deal.
That is how i see the infield going.
Other notes….
-Let Pavano Walk, and get an ACE. We will need one during the playoffs.
-Do not trade away Young. He is an investment, and one that cannot be traded away this quickly. Give him everyday at bats at Target Field and see what he can do. He tore up the minor leagues and was rushed through the system for the Rays-the biggest mistake. His trade value is too low anyways right now. I only would trade him, if we could get an ace type pitcher (garza) and an infielder (bartlett).
- Start Gomez in aaa, to give him at-bats, and more stealing opportunities-the kid is fast-and he doesn’t steal. Then bring him up later in the season for defensive help.
by Heineken-77 on Oct 23, 2009 12:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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