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Roy, Ramos, and RISK, Part II

I kind of got lost in a digression about Dungeons and Dragons in Part I.  I admit, my Nerd Scale does go to 11.  But that was kind of  my point--here you have a game where a bunch of jocks hit a little ball with a stick chopped down from some tree by some other jock, and another jock tries to catch the ball with a chunk of cow flesh chopped off a dead cow carcass that had been raised by the ultimate jock, the American Cowboy.  And more often than not, the we the fans end up sounding like a bunch of nerds, bandying about statistics.  I mean, it's probably redundant, but you've all seen the Seinfeld episode, right?  Where George is unemployed, and he says, "I like baseball..." and Jerry says "they usually give those jobs to ex-baseball players."  But in TV land George gets the job anyway, and the Yankees lose because he makes them where cotton uniforms that have shrunk.  (One can only hope there is another George Costanza making his way up the Yankee chain of command.  It took them years to erase his mistakes.)  But by and large we're all Costanza's, and if we actually had to run a team like the Twins, we'd botch it up way worse than Smith and Gardenhire.

Seriously, the mathematical brainpower I've seen devoted to breaking down baseball statistics on Twins fansites alone could probably break the cold-fusion code, with plenty of room left over for some significant advances in time travel as well.  Which would be more productive than debating the relative merits of Brian Dinkelman vs. Steve Tolleson, because then the Twins could go back in time and really fleece the Mets.  Moreon RISK  below.

Star-divide

In RISK, the idea is to slowly build up strength until you can make a blitz.  Because the Yankees/Asia control more territory, they get more reinforcements every turn.  It takes the Twins longer to build up strength.

In RISK, every turn you have a successful attack, you get to take a card.  In baseball, this is equivalent to fielding a competitive team.  You keep the fans interested, keep the money flowing, keep pouring resources into your farm, your scouting, and your young players.

When you get three cards in RISK, you can trade them in.  But, the longer you wait, the more valuable they become.  The Twins could have 'traded their cards in' a couple of years ago, resigning Hunter and retaining Santana, if only for the year.  But the value wasn't their.  They hadn't built up their armies enough.  Plus, the AL Central (Africa) was exceptionally strong.  Cleveland, Chicago, Detroit, and even KC, after a brief feint at respectability, have all regressed or are regressing.

So now the Twins have waited.  They have five cards, representing prospects, revenue, etc.  They have some strong armies on the board:  Mauer is a X, Morneau is a X, Nathan is statistically a X if he can ever get it done against the Yankees.  What do they lack?

If you look at the Yankees or Phillies, you see a couple of X's in the heart of the order, and at least a V at the top, and maybe another V down lower.  I'd argue that after two great years, Span is qualified to be a V.  Unfortunately, the Twins have been trotting out I's in the number 2 spot.  That has to change.  They need someone equivalent to Damon or Victorino at least in the spot.  Polanco looks nice.

But even more important, they need a X starting pitcher.  An Ace.  Forget the regular season, forget 7-8 medium grade starters.  The high payroll Yankees showed you only need three, and one of them needs to be a horse.  Blackburn has the guts, Baker has the stuff, Liriano had the stuff, but maybe only Slowey has enough of a combo to at least be Lee-like, and he is coming off an injury.

My recommendation, then:  Go all in now--trade your cards.  You have to.  New stadium. Several in their prime players coming of great (and repeated) seasons. The best looking bunch of prospects in a while.  Go after Halladay.  I know he has a no-trade clause, but start the offer at Baker-Ramos-Hicks and see what happens.  Offer him a mutual option for 25 Million for 2011, just so he has insurance.  Let him make a playoff run with a great team and see what happens--if he kicks ass, he's in line for a better contract than if he just toils away in Toronto.  If he bombs, he's way better off than if he was a 33 year old free agent coming of a down season. The Twins should have a great relief corp, hopefully great defense, and a good to great offense.  What's not to like?

I love the prospects, but Ramos is expendable with Mauer locked up, and Hicks is more potential right now than reality; plus you still have Revere, Morales, Benson.   I like Baker, but I have no faith he'll ever develop into a bulldog ace.  At absolute best, he's A.J. Burnett, dazziling one night, and shaking his head in disbelief the next.

I'm calling my shot--the Twins get their ace, their Morris, their Viola, their Halladay, and their Championship.

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No trade clause

I doubt Halladay would waive his no trade clause unless he was to recieve a huge extension. If the Twins didn’t give Santana a huge contract, they won’t give Halladay one.

I do agree with the premise though and loved the analogy. MLBTR lists Brandon Webb, Josh Johnson, Javier Vasquez, and Roy Oswalt as ace level trade targets that don’t come with long term commitments. Once Mauer is resigned, Ramos becomes a very valuable “set” and hopefully we cash him in this offseason.

by Jon Kammerer on Nov 18, 2009 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

I agree it is unlikely

But the offseason is a time for idle speculation. I was proposing the unlikely scenario that Halladay would accept a trade to a contender under the realization that it would enhance his resume. I thought an unorthodox move like a generous one year option might be enough to entice him. But, I agree, his clock is ticking; he’s much older than C.C. or Zito or Santana and won’t command a 7 year type contract from anyone after next year; so it would behoove him to try and get a nice new 4 or 5 year deal on the books right now.

In reality, I find it more likely that the Twins will wait until the season has progressed, and then make a trade for one of the pitchers you mentioned. Based on what C.C. and Lee commanded, I would think a guy like Webb (if he is healthy and pitching well) could be had for a Ramos and a Revere/Hicks (if they are having good seasons) and a couple of other parts.

by Han Joelo on Nov 18, 2009 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

why would you trade baker for halliday?

That might be the dumbest thing I’ve heard of. You still have 2 holes in the rotation. Granted, Halliday is better, but how many more wins will he get us over baker, especially 3 seasons of Baker?

by diehardtwinsfan on Nov 18, 2009 2:55 PM EST reply actions  

6-8 Post-Season Wins From Halladay

Which is all that is important. I don’t see Baker besting another team’s ace on his own, even in game 1 of the ALDS. If he doesn’t do that, the Twins probably don’t advance, and he doesn’t even get another chance. Conversely, I can see Halladay going all C.C. and hammering out up to 8 starts in a long post-season.

Regular season is less important; the team needs to win 90 games to get into the dance, maybe less this year. Detroit may well regress, Chicago’s lineup right now is old and young but not fearsome, KC is KC, and Cleveland is young, young, young.

I like Baker a lot, but he is not a Halladay, and I have my doubts he will be. My trade proposal was intended to be generous but realistic. Maybe too generous. At any rate, Halladay, Slowey, Blackburn, Duensing, Liriano, Bonser, Swarzak, Manship, maybe Guittierez with perhaps a free agent seems like a hole free rotation to me. (Plus, trading Baker and maybe Perkins helps offset the salary of Halladay.)

My intent here is to say that now may well be the time for the Twins to go all in for a championship run, utilizing the peak years of several players. In a couple of years they have to step back and let guys like Span, Kubel, Cuddyer, etc. go and restock with youngsters.

Hopefully, smart bankers like the Pohlads have been anticipating a moment like this, and have some cash reserves lined up from the years when the payroll was much lower. Combine that with the new ballpark, and presto.

by Han Joelo on Nov 18, 2009 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

6-8 postseason wins?

I don’t see even Halladay pulling that off. I don’t know if anyone has ever won 6 postseason games in one postseason. Considering that Halladay would be on short rest to even pitch that many games in the first place, I’d be shocked if he got 6-8 postseason wins. You’re asking him to be a workhorse, and to win every start as well. Even Sabathia, often on short rest, just started 5 games this postseason, and ended with a 3-1 record.

Even an ace will make mistakes, have bad games, or even have a game where the offense just doesn’t show up. While Halladay would undoubtedly help the Twins in the postseason, he is not a white knight to cure all of our postseason ills.

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 18, 2009 7:32 PM EST up reply actions  

You're right

8 Wins was a ridiculous thing to say. I think I added another round to the playoffs or something. 6 starts, most on 3 days rest would be max. I still stand by the premise that a team needs an ace type pitcher to win the WS.

by Han Joelo on Nov 19, 2009 8:53 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll give you that

I don’t think I’d put it as strongly as you, but I agree that an ace is a key piece to a WS win.

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 19, 2009 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

But he doesn't have to do that!
I don’t see Baker besting another team’s ace on his own, even in game 1 of the ALDS.

Did you hear that they passed a new rule that says that the Twins get to have eight guys on the field with Baker to field the balls that are hit after he throws them? It’s true! Those eight guys also get to stand in a “batter’s box” against the other team’s pitcher and try to hit the balls that he throws! I know that sounds crazy, but Baker wouldn’t actually have to do it all by himself, even in the playoffs!

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Nov 19, 2009 9:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Fine

When Baker gives up consecutive home runs to Damon, Rodriguez, and Texiera in game 1 of the ALDS next year, I fully expect the Twins to answer against C.C.

The point isn’t really Baker vs. Halladay. If you want, take Baker out of the trade equation. I just suggested him because I thought he would be an enticing trade candidate, with the added value of subtracting some payroll.

The point is the need for a front-line high strikeout Ace, especially one with a history of pitching well against the AL East. If Pavano actually had a positive mentor-like influence on the young Twins pitchers, imagine what Halladay could do for them.

by Han Joelo on Nov 19, 2009 12:32 PM EST up reply actions  

When Baker gives up consecutive home runs to Damon, Rodriguez, and Texiera in game 1 of the ALDS

I just have to say it – in this situation, despite being a Twins fan, I would be hoping for…

Five consecutive home runs!

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 19, 2009 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

true, if it was the yankees it might diminish the shine of 5 consecutive home runs

Then ESPN would never shut up about it…

The best solution would be if Baker gave up 3 consecutive home runs, but then in the next inning the Twins hit 5 consecutive home runs

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 19, 2009 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I'd rather die than see that

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 19, 2009 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay.....

The only thing I totally agree on is that Baker is not an Ace and, yes, he won’t get those post-season victories. Of course, we can look at C.C. and all his starts…and he didn’t really get it totally done in the World Series. Sometimes better to not have your power pitcher go up against the other team’s power.

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 18, 2009 11:40 PM EST reply actions  

Secret Sauce

Nate Silver at baseball prospectus did a study on what factors correlate with postseason success. The 3 most influential aspects were power pitching(k9), a good closer(wxrl), and a good defense(fraa). He combined these factors into a metric he calls secret sauce. Below are the the Twins rankings .

Power Pitching 23
Good Closer 4
Defense 13
Overall 15

A high strikeout “ace” would improve our power pitching number. The right infield upgrade could improve our defense. Our bullpen is fine. The Dodgers had the highest ranking with the Yankees 2nd. Certainly there are no guarantees, but looking to upgrade the team with an eye towards postseason success makes sense.

by Jon Kammerer on Nov 19, 2009 10:19 AM EST reply actions  

Nate Silver is the man

I wonder who was ahead of Nathan for closers. Rivera probably, but the other 2 are debatable.

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 19, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, no kidding

must have been Papelbon and Broxton or maaaybe just maaybe Ryan Franklin….

Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Nov 21, 2009 7:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Question...
with plenty of room left over for some significant advances in time travel as well.

If time travel has been invented in the future, wouldn’t we already know about it?

Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.

by TwinsTarget on Nov 25, 2009 10:45 AM EST reply actions  

No

Even a slight change to the past could significantly change the future in ways we could never predict. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to get this DeLorean to the clock tower at exactly 10:04PM. I hope Doc has that flux capacitor working.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 25, 2009 9:52 PM EST up reply actions  

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