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Twins, Washburn Continue to Make Eyes At Each Other

Does anyone else feel like this one is inevitable?

The Twins had interest at the trade deadline this year.  There were trade rumors involving the Twins and Washburn back in February.  Back in August of '08, the Twins placed a waiver claim on Washburn and actually won it, but the Mariners in another moment of moron-mania screwed it up by asking Minnesota for one of their young starters instead of just taking the salary dump.  This is a romance that's been brewing for an awful long time, and with the Twins seemingly on the verge of becoming a premier team in baseball with one or two more quality additions I have little doubt that Washburn will do whatever he can to don a Twins uniform.

Bill Smith has already dropped hints that the front office will be taking a look at the starting pitcher options on the free agent market.  Washburn, apparently, fits the bill.  He wants to be here, he qualifies as a veteran (he turned 35 in August), and he's been a lock for averaging six innings a start over the course of his career.  Those are some pretty basic qualifications, but that doesn't mean they're bad ones.

As long as they're not the only ones.

I haven't made a secret of my reservations about having Washburn in a Twins uniform.  Allow me to illustrate why using the simplicity of the numbers, in case you remain unconvinced.

Year AGE IP GS FIP tRA K/9 BB/9
2006 30 187.0 31 4.78 4.88 4.96 2.65
2007 31 193.2 32 4.77 4.81 5.30 3.11
2008 32 153.2 26 4.72 5.59 5.10 2.93
2009 33 176.0 28 4.58 5.21 5.11 2.51

 

To make sure we're on the same page:  Washburn isn't getting any better as he gets older.  Which should surprise absolutely nobody.  In fact he's been on a steady decline for a couple of years, and his rebound in Seattle this summer (which I'll take a pit stop at in a moment) seems more like a blip on the radar than a sign of a late-career revival.

The best thing Washburn has going for him, apart from the fact that he should (note:  should) cost less than some of the other free agent starters on the market this winter, would be his durability (at least 28 starts seven of the last nine years).  But that should probably be a slight concern considering the problems with his knee at the end of the season, in spite of the arthroscopic surgery.  It's just another red flag for a guy who:

  • Has averaged a strikeout-to-walk ratio of less than 2:1 over the course of his career.
  • Can lose control at any time; first of the strike zone, then of his emotions.
  • Is a flyball pitcher (bad for next year's outfield defense) who is going to give up more than his share of bombs.
  • Isn't likely to out-play Minnesota's current top starters (Scott Baker, Kevin Slowey, possibly Nick Blackburn)

Washburn had a bit of a revival in 2009.  Before his injury in Detroit he made 20 starts for Seattle and averaged 6.7 innings a go.  His fastball was legitimately a good pitch for the first time since 2002, and his slider was better than it ever had been.  He was stranding 80% of his base runners and opponents were managing a meager .249 BABIP.  None of that is sustainable.

Conclusions

Where this gets tricky for me is when I know the answer to this question:  does Jarrod Washburn make next year's rotation better?  Because as long as he's healthy, he probably does.  On paper, giving him 200 innings instead of Anthony Swarzak or Brian Duensing or Glen Perkins just might actually yield better results.  And in that sense, he could make the Twins better by stengthening the back end of the rotation.  We all know how the Twins like their depth.

Would it be a bad signing?  Depending on the contract, probably not.  I'm just hoping for something more.

I'll leave you with a conversation I had with a friend over Facebook.

Jesse wishes the Twins would stop flirting with Jarrod Washburn.  STOP IT.

Ben:
  Dodgers are flirting with Smotz... Have you ever been at a bar, and your friend is SOOOOO wasted drunk that he's chatting up the ugliest chick in the bar? Do you see them touch hands? Maybe even noses? You try to stop him but he's too drunk to believe you? At least the twins are chatting up a hottie. Who cares if they are let down, at least they're trying. All my teams gonna get is a hang over, crabs, and a rude awakening come tomorrow.

Jesse:
  yeah but at least your friend is going after a cougar. i mean, at least she USED to be hot, right? the twins are just going after the girl because she's there...she's only a hottie because the twins just drank all the way through happy hour.

Ben:
  Point taken.

0 recs  |  Comment 44 comments |

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Comments

Display:

Someone will die if the Twins make this signing

or at least be on the receiving end of a strongly worded letter

http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com

by fetch9 on Nov 18, 2009 7:18 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I actually would like it

Sign Washburn/Sheets (much rather take the latter) Re-Sign Carl Jr. and u get

1. Bread 1. Bread
2. Slow-Ball 2. Slow-Ball
3. Carl Jr./ or 3. Cotton-Fiber Sheets
4. Big Game 4. Carl Jr
5. Semi-Washedup 5. Arggggghh!

Either way thats a pretty good rotation.

Purple Haze is the worlds greatest Natural Resource.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Nov 18, 2009 7:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Washburn would be fine

as long as it doesn’t get in the way of signing other guys.

Basically we’re adding depth – adding a cushion in case someone gets hurt. In reality, he projects to be better than swarzak and similar to duensing. With Washburn, you’d be pretty sure of what you’d get out of the first 4
Baker – 4.00 FIP, 200 ip
Slowey – 4.00 FIP, 190 ip
Blackburn – 4.20 FIP, 200 ip
Washburn – 4.70 FIP, 170 ip
So we’d get 760 innings of above average pitching. Then you don’t have to rely on Duensing AND Liriano, you just have to rely on one. It gives us a cushion, and makes the bullpen better by putting liriano there.

The problem, really, is that we have a limited amount of money and more than one hole to fix. Liriano and Duensing both project to be decent back end starters, while Harris and Tolbert project to be replacement players. If signing Washburn means that Harris is an every day player, then its a net loss as far as I’m concerned.

Now, if we sign someone like Ben Sheets, thats a different story. We expect to get 100 very good innings, which is fine, since we have decent backup options. Swarzak and Perkins also project to be decent starters.

Basically what I’m saying, is that starter’s get hurt/underperform a lot, so signing washburn would give us a cushion, and probably be a small plus overall.

But signing a 2b, 3b, or hopefully, a 2b AND 3b, would be a larger plus because they’d be replacing poorer players. Signing someone like sheets would also be a larger net plus, because its better to have 100 very good innings than 200 mediocre innings when you have decent backup plans.

I feel the same way about someone like Glaus. 350 pa for Glaus + 350 pa for harris is better than 700 pa for Pedro Feliz or Melvin Mora.

by lookatthosetwins on Nov 18, 2009 7:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Washburn with a questionable knee

Is a move that Terry Ryan would make.
and I don’t like it

by clutterheart on Nov 18, 2009 8:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

This does really seem inevitable. I expect it to happen in the early stages of free agency. I won’t mind it if they also sign another free agent pitcher. He wouldn’t be a bad end-of-the-line guy then.

Personally, I’d like to see them sign his former Mariner teammate Adrian Beltre too.

by Twins Territory on Nov 18, 2009 8:45 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If they sign another free agent pitcher,

this seems like a useless move. We have guys who project to be as good as Washburn, the only reason to sign him is to add depth. there is no reason to sign 2 starting pitchers unless they have money left over after signing 2 infielders and Mauer long term. That sounds doubtful.

by lookatthosetwins on Nov 18, 2009 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What's wrong with Smoltz?

Smoltz is a good pitcher. He had a ridiculous BABIP last year, but everything else looked good. I’d expect him to be about a run per 9 better than Washburn next year.
I’d be happy to see the Twins pick him up for a modest contract.

by lookatthosetwins on Nov 18, 2009 9:00 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

and if the Twins really want a veteran pitcher to teach the young guys stuff

it’d be hard to find someone better for that role then smotlz.

by ckb on Nov 18, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Unless they trade......

I don’t see a big need to jump headfirst into signing backend free agents.

Yes, you might be able to get someone if you throw out the right price (say, $4 mil for Crede instead of waiting to see if no one bites, or $3 mil for Washburn, as I don’t see anyone spending big $$$ on him, and even Pavano).

The free agents first question usually is: can I get a multi-year contract instead of a one year.

Again, Bill Smith, concentrate on a few trading opportunities. You got some chips to play (and rid) in Perkins/Liriano, Casilla, maybe even Young. Not to mention Harris and Pridie and a host of young AAAers (could you have traded Winfree back this summer if you thought you might not keep him, for example?).

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 18, 2009 9:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Whoa.

In your conversation with your friend at the end you pretty much nailed any interaction I’ve had with a women in the last 5 years.

by matty_b on Nov 18, 2009 11:04 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think you need to stop going after scrappy veterans then

Also, think more about the girl’s FIP and stop staring at her ERA

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 19, 2009 12:54 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Washburn:

“Hey! My eyes are up here!”

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 19, 2009 10:08 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but

veterans can help mentor my young rotation.

by matty_b on Nov 19, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but......

I’d rather take a flyer on a grizzled old lefty…in the style of Terry Mulholland…who can eat up innings at the back of the bullpen. Any such guys out there for 2010?

If we are getting one-two starting pitchers, let’s make one a possible #1-2 guy to offset the 8 3-4-5’s we already have!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 19, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I think you missed the analogy matty_b was making

But that reply is much more hilarious if you didn’t

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 19, 2009 9:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I am having a hard time containing my laughter

Great stuff.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Nov 20, 2009 10:59 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah...

The innings are definetly getting eaten up.

by matty_b on Nov 20, 2009 10:54 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And

I have to be near blacked out before I attempt to “sign” a Terry Muholland.

by matty_b on Nov 20, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You sure about that?

Hot stuff.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

by fischean on Nov 20, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm going to nominate this for funniest thread of an offseason

I’m not sure if I’ve ever ROFLMAO’d (whatever the eff that means) but this whole thing got me pretty close. Nothing better than cleverly worded junior high humor.

by lookatthosetwins on Nov 20, 2009 6:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely.

I hear his butt is really third-base too. Winner.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

by fischean on Nov 21, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fear not....

one always dreams of a perfect slider or a wicked knuckle-ball!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 21, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Twins.....

last season had a little Dickey to spur the rotation, and the bullpen.

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 21, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dickey-time is always fun time!

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

by fischean on Nov 21, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

he’s kind of a butter-FIP

by matty_b on Nov 21, 2009 5:42 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If you weren't so ERA-shallow, you'd see what he really has to offer.

Geez….men.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

by fischean on Nov 21, 2009 7:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Please,tell me this is a joke.

Do the Twins not remember how terrible he was after going to Detroit? You can talk ground balls, fly balls or any other stat and the bottom line is that he couldn’t get it done when the Tigers needed him.

by coltzfan on Nov 19, 2009 6:16 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

To be fair to Washburn, he was hurt in Detroit.

He was terrible, but I’m sure he wouldn’t have been quite so bad had he been healthy.

by Jesse on Nov 19, 2009 7:29 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Please no

Washburn is a terrible idea. Bring back Pavano or go sign Sheets. This is ridiculous.. he sucks.

Who ever is predicting a 4.70 ERA is crazy… Probably going to be closer to 5 if he’s playing in Minnesota.

So far, I’ve heard nothing from the front office saying they are interested. There’s been speculation from beat writers and Washburn publically saying he’s love to end up in Milwaukee or Minnesota… Here’s to hoping Milwaukee bites on that one.

by diehardtwinsfan on Nov 19, 2009 8:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sheets,Maybe?

Depending onwhat it would take to sign him it might be worth it to take a flyer on Sheets. That being said, my choice(risky as it may be)is Harden. I just think the Twins need a strike-out type pitcher. I would look at Harden, then Sheets, Pavano, and Washburn only if the Twins whiff on everyone else.

by coltzfan on Nov 19, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Of all the guys the Twins could sign with the meager dollars left in the kitty....

Sigh.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 19, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I HATE THIS I HATE THIS I HATE THIS. This rumor is making me tantrum!

by jimmylegz on Nov 19, 2009 11:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

3 year weighted averages of FIP

Baker 3.93
Slowey 4.32
Blackburn 4.39
Liriano 4.51
Washburn 4.69
Perkins 4.87

This is basically a marcel projection without regression to the mean. The weighting was 5/4/3 and proportional to innings pitched. I’d give him a 1.4 WAR projection over 160 innings. He is probably a 3 run improvement over the pitchers we have and would be our 4/5th best pitcher. The budget would be better spent upgrading the infield or going after an Ace with injury concerns.

by Jon Kammerer on Nov 19, 2009 12:09 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

+another

Spend the $$ on an infielder with a good glove at 2B or 3B and make all the pitchers better. If Washburn still doesn’t have a date to prom around February give him a call then.

by DJL44 on Nov 19, 2009 4:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

Tolbert and Casilla are replacement players or worse, and Harris is maybe slightly better. Punto is probably in the 1-1.5 range. I have no problem with signing washburn and adding depth, as long as we sign two infielders first.

by lookatthosetwins on Nov 20, 2009 12:46 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm... fifthed?

Washburn is a marginal improvement who adds some depth to the rotation, but depth that only really helps if there’s an injury or two. I think we could get similar production shuttling Perkins, Swarzak, Manship, etc out there. Guys who could actually help us beyond this year.

Spend the money on infield first. Then a better starter than Washburn.

by Adam Peterson on Nov 20, 2009 9:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks to Washburn.

I’d rather not splurge on mediocrity. I think the Twins have some pitchers that could possibly get similar stats at a cheaper cost.

by benhertz on Nov 19, 2009 7:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hey....

Sir Sidney, Ramon and Livan are available again. bring back Dickey!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 21, 2009 1:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

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