Mauer Takes Another Step Toward Cooperstown

by Cloud City Twinkies on Nov 23, 2009 12:50 AM EST Comment 18 comments

Virtually limitless are the adjectives one could utilize to properly describe Joe Mauer — unbelievable, incredible, marvelous, unprecedented. One in particular, however, may hold credence above all others — historically significant.

In just six seasons, Mauer has already cemented his name alongside fellow catchers Ivan Rodriguez, Mike Piazza, Johnny Bench, Roy Campanella, Yogi Berra and Mickey Cochrane as one of the greats of the game.

Mauer should now add the 2009 American League Most Valuable Player award to his growing list of accolades.

No American League catcher had ever won a batting title before Mauer captured the crown in 2006, and now the St. Paul native owns three (’08 & ‘09).

The best single-season batting average posted by a catcher had been .362, posted by Hall of Famer Bill Dickey in 1936, and equalled future Hall of Famer Piazza in 1997, before Mauer batted .365 this past season.

Add back-to-back Gold Glove and Silver Slugger awards, and one begins to grasp just how complete and special a player Mauer really is. In short, Minnesota’s receiver is the best player in the game not named Pujols.

Mauer missed the first month of the season due to a back injury, but upon his return on May 1, the sweet-swinging lefty laced an opposite field homer. The first act of a truly remarkable campaign that should place Mauer’s name among the pantheon of Twins MVP’s like Morneau (2006), Rod Carew (1977), Harmon Killebrew (1969) and Zoilo Versalles (1965).

Mauer may have missed Spring Training and the first 22 games of the season, but he came back better than ever...

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Comments

I was actually thinking about this question and was going to raise it after the

MVP vote was announced, but I’ll do it here:

RIght now, today, what are Mauer’s chances at the Hall of Fame? How likely is it that he completes the rest of a career that gets him voted in?

by Eric in Madison on Nov 23, 2009 8:56 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd say about 65% right now if he retired

and 100% if he plays at this level for 5 more years.

Purple Haze is the worlds greatest Natural Resource.

by Percy Harvin My Fav! on Nov 23, 2009 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As long

as he plays ten years, he’s in. He owns as many batting titles as all other catchers that came before him. And two of those weren’t legitimate by today’s standards.

by Milt on Tilt on Nov 23, 2009 11:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

M&MVP Boys...I love it.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

by fischean on Nov 23, 2009 11:40 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

Mauer and HOF

With three batting championships as a catcher, he has one foot in already. If he doesn’t win another significant award and hits .300 for the next five years, he’ll probably make it. Projecting him to win another batting title or two and some gold gloves and silver sluggers would make him a lock even if he was done playing at 30 (sort of the Sandy Koufax of catchers). If he gets better, he may be looked at as among the best ever.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 23, 2009 11:58 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

See, I think this is going a bit far

Don’t get me wrong, I suspect his chances as we sit here today are probably around 70%—he’s going to get in. But if he winds up a short career guy with a .300 BA but marginal power, I’m not sure he gets in. The BBWAA is pretty strict, really. I think if he plays 15 years even if he never gets close to his 2009 again he’s probably in, as long as some of those years are good ones. If he is a 12 year guy, he probably needs another 2 monster seasons.

by Eric in Madison on Nov 23, 2009 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

HOF?

Yes, he ahs to reach 10 seasons. 12-15 batting between .280 and .300-whatever. He’s in, even if he doesn’t stay at catcher. If he has another couple monster seasons in his career, he’ll be first ballot.

But if he just plays…let’s say he pulls a Tony Oliva and gets injured and DHs a lot and just has average average, power and such, he may sit like Tony. Sad to say, there is no guarantee to get in the Hall of Fame except for enormous lifetime numbers (not enormous years to get those numbers), dominance (but Jack Morris is feeling that rejection), playing for a winner (yet so many teams won once the Yankees stopped being A#1). It’s a total crapshoot.

Mauer has to all-star out as a catcher, period. Better 12+ seasons. Anotehr batting title would cement it. A couple of titles would help. Still too early to call!

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by rosterman on Nov 23, 2009 1:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

We may be seeing a shift in the attitude of the BBWAA though

By the time Mauer is eligible there may be much greater appreciation for elements other than the basic counting stats. Mauer has dominated those.

by ckb on Nov 23, 2009 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M. V. P.! M.V.P.!

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 23, 2009 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Two words

Tony Oliva. If you had watched Tony through his first five seasons, you would say he’s a HOF guy. But knee injuries prevented him from getting there. My sense is Mauer is a cut above Tony (or even Kirby, who’s in despite a glaucoma-shortened career). But he’s not even half way there and a lot can happen between now and then.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 23, 2009 2:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Mauer has 6 seasons in

One was injury-shortened, but with five full seasons plus the rookie year, he certainly has a leg up. That he is a gold glove catcher will also help his chances when he is considered for the HOF.

Oliva is the only three (or more) time batting champ that isn’t in the HOF that I am aware of, and I think he should be. Bert also belongs. Baseball Reference checks careers four different ways and Bert is above HOF average in three and below in the fourth. Tony also exceeds HOF average in three of four measurements and is slightly below in the fourth.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 23, 2009 3:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Bill Madlock has three batting titles

So does Pete Rose, but he’s not eligible for other reasons.

by DavidRF on Nov 24, 2009 6:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, Madlock won four

Madlock and Oliva are the only eligible players to have won three or more batting titles and not get elected to the Hall of Fame.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 24, 2009 6:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Oliva had eight good seasons

Tony was still a great player as late as ’72. He suffered the bad injury that year, only played 10 games in ’73, and was a shadow of his former self as a DH from that point on. He won batting championships his first two full seasons,

Obviously, Tony didn’t pile up huge career numbers and he hit during a pitcher-dominant era. His OPS+ is a solid 130 lifetime and he did win three batting titles.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 23, 2009 3:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes

And he didn’t get voted in because of his career numbers. That’s why I say Mauer needs a few more years at this level to even be considered for a vote.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 23, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Four more years before we can even start talking "bus test"

The HOF requires 10 years of MLB service to be eligible for HOF consideration. Until then, we can only talk about how he’s “on the right track”.

Oliva got eight years in (plus two cup of coffee years) before he got hurt. Plus, competition is much stiffer for corner OF-ers. I’d rank Mauer well ahead of Oliva at this point in their respective careers.

by DavidRF on Nov 23, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

You don’t need counting numbers if you have absolute shorter term dominance. Someone earlier mentioned Sandy Koufax, for example.

This last season Mauer had was one of the greatest any player has ever had. His other seasons have been exceptional as well, although clearly not as exceptional. Setting the record for BA in a season for a catcher, being the first catcher to win a batting title, being the only catcher with three batting titles, winning 3 out of 4 batting titles etc… Those are things that get noticed beyond counting stats.

I say if Mauer has two more Mauer-esque seasons and then a few more that don’t suck he is in.

by ckb on Nov 23, 2009 9:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs