December Important Dates
A quick rundown of the important dates for the Twins in December, which you may have noticed starts tomorrow. (The lack of November snow here in Minnesota has thrown us all off, so I don't blame you if you didn't notice.)
December 1 - Last day for teams to offer arbitration to free agents
The only person here affected is really Carl Pavano; he is a "Type B" free agent, and the Twins will get a supplemental draft pick if they offer arbitration and he signs somewhere else. Orlando Cabrera is Type A, but by the terms of his contract, the team can't offer him arbitration. Ron Mahay, Joe Crede, and Mike Redmond are also veteran free agents, but since none of the three qualified as Type A or B, the team has no compelling reason to offer arbitration to any of them.
December 7 - Last day for free agents to accept the offer of salary arbitration
If Pavano is offered arbitration, he likely will decline it; I suspect he'd rather take his chances on the open market.
December 7-10 - Winter meetings, Indianapolis, IN
This four-day period is the time in which we all go half-blind refreshing MLB Trade Rumors fifteen times an hour. We'll be updating Twinkie Town about as often, I suspect; this is the four days when the Hot Stove League is truly lava-hot.
December 10 - Rule V Draft
The team's 40-man roster is full to bursting at this point; if the Twins want to pluck a player from somebody else's system, they need to make a move in the next week and a half. Last year, the Twins took Jason Jones from the Yankees system, then ended up trading Charles Nolte to New York in order to keep Jones. Jones went 5-11 with a 5.75 ERA in Rochester last year; Nolte was 5-4 with a 5.29 ERA in A-ball with the Yankees. In other words, not exactly a blockbuster. (And yes, I know that Johan Santana was famously a Rule V pickup, but there are a hundred RA Dickeys for every Santana.)
December is usually the month with the most player movement, as free agents find employers and teams fill holes at the winter meetings. It'll be interesting to see if any of the 2010 free agents end up playing at Target Field next spring.
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December
It will be fun to see if Pavano does accept arbitration or not. If anything, it is a fall back on a decent one-year contract if he can’t pull off a multi-year anywhere else. The plus is that the Twins could get him for just a season in the $4-5 million range.
Would it make sense for the Twins to offer Crede arbitration? Could it abckfire and be more expensive than just seeing his worth in the free agent market (which could be as low as $1.5 million).
As soon as the Rule 5 passes, the Twins should sign-up a few minor league free agents. Be interesting to see if the Twins do keep the aforementioned Jones around for another season, not to mention Matt Macri and Tim Lahey.
And, yes, tomorrow is the BIG DAY — who else added to that free-agent pool. Will there be a better Nick Punto/Matt Tolbert, a decent back-up catcher so Morales can be the third guy/DH, a real 4th outfielder, a lefty that can pitch more than one-third inning, or a decent back-of-the-rotation starter not named Ramon, Livain or Sir Sidney!
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More like $8-10M
Pavano is going to be able to top $5M in arb. He’d still probably not be an overpay with a 1 year $8M deal.
Dump Macri, he’s old for a prospect, they need the room and he cannot stay healthy.
Macri
Macri was taken off the 40 man roster a long time ago.
OK Time to Dump
RP Bobby Keppel
and OF Jason Pridie
from the 40-man roster that’ll open up two spots
one for the Rule IV draft and one for a possible FA signing……
(I see next year’s bullpen as follows: Nathan, Guierrier, Rauch, Mijares, Crain, Neshek/ Bonser, Liriano – thats 7
we don’t need Keppel)
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 3, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions
+1
I think by spring training we will see these guys off our roster in some way or other:
Bobby Keppel, Alexi Casilla, Glen Perkins, Jason Pridie. That is four spots – one Rule V draft (if needed), three/four free agent signings/trades.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Pavano
won’t have much time to use the arbitration offer as a fallback. He’ll need to decide whether to accept arbitration by the 7 Dec deadline. Remember, if we offer him, say 1 year and $5-6M, he can accept arbitration and come back with his own number. Would an abritrator accept a Pavano figure of $10+M? Quite possible, considering Pavano was a 3.7 WAR player last season. Arbitration cases argue the midpoint between the offers. If we offer $6M and Pavano comes back with $12M, then all he needs to show is that he’s worth at least $9.0000001M to win the case and eat up much of our available payroll space.
I could very well see Pavano accept arbitration in hopes of maximizing his 2009 paycheck and putting together one more healthy season to snag a 3 year contract after 2010.
Crede
I’m not sure offering Crede arbitration will save us any money. We’d have to come in with a number (no incentives…I think), he comes back with his own. I could see it easily backfiring and the Twins ending up with more guaranteed money than we would sign on the open market. I’d rather not offer him arbitration and if we’re truly interested, put together an incentive-laden contract offer.
you're correct
There is zero reason to offer Crede arbitration. He won’t bring any picks back.
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+ another 1
This waiting business sucks.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
This waiting business sucks.
Delmon Young says that every time he comes up to bat
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 30, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions
It's not like he waits all that long.
First pitch outs don’t take much time in the grand scheme of things.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
I wonder if the Winter Meetings will be a little quieter this year
since the non-tender date is the 12th and everybody is expecting a lot of guys to flood the market at that point, so teams might wait to see if they can fill their holes without making trades.
by Eric in Madison on Nov 30, 2009 1:48 PM EST reply actions
I think it is a little different
More teams are saying that they will cut payroll in general or save money by letting mediocre players go rather than pay them high arbitration prices. To me, this is good business. Why pay a backup 2 million, when an equivalent player can be had for the major league minimum?
I think the Twins should non-tender Harris. Others can do what he does and for less money.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 30, 2009 4:49 PM EST reply actions
I agree about Harris
If it means that we sign someone else.
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 30, 2009 6:03 PM EST up reply actions
If that's the case, it wouldn't be a matter of saving money
for non tendering Harris, but rather finding someone better. Would you non-tender Harris if we do nothing in the infield, other than perhaps sign Crede to an incentive-laden contract? I would not want to count on Valencia quite yet, Harris may be a good insurance option behind Crede at 3B. Tolbert could provide similar value, but it seems Tolbert’s upside is pretty near Harris’ floor…neither are particularly good options. Sign another 3B or 2B, then you’re talking about Punto-Casilla as backups, a much more attractive option.
by Adam Peterson on Nov 30, 2009 9:43 PM EST up reply actions
The third base thread shows there are better if not cheaper options than Harris
He will make at least $1 million through arbitration. Because of the glut of third basemen on the market, they could probably get a better player for no more money. DeRosa, for example, is a better option and probably won’t cost much more.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I agree DeRosa is a better option than Harris
but he’s made $2.8M, $4.8M and $5.5M the past three years. No way I see him making less than $5M this year. I’d take DeRosa at that price, he can play 3B or 2B if Valencia comes along.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 1, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Valencia/Harris
Harris will make 1M+ in arb. He couldn’t hold a job at short, second, or third. Matt bleepin’ Tolbert started at third for the Twins in the critical games down the stretch. Danny Valencia has succeeded at every level of the minor league ball. He’s already 25 years old. He promises to be a better fielding 3B than Harris immediately. He will hit with as much power in his rookie year and I think he would get on base just as much. I don’t think Valencia will make the team out of spring because the Twins want to save a year of service time. Let Tolbert play thrid for a month or two and then let Danny show that he belongs.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 30, 2009 11:50 PM EST up reply actions
That makes sense
Either way, they should not tender Harris a contract. Every time he plays every day, he goes in the tank. His numbers are inflated because Gardy has used him sparingly—spotting him in situations where he an succeed—most of the time. Even inflated, he couldn’t crack a .700 OPS last year. And his second-half OPS was under .600—well below replacement level for a third baseman.
Valencia should play at least at replacement level. His projections are hurt because he had a bad slump late at AAA. The rest of his minor league career, he has been the best hitter on every team he’s played on and made the All-Star team every year. I think he’s ready. But if he’s not, if we can get anything like what we got from Tolbert in September, I’d be happy until Valencia earns his way on to the big league club.
The other thing is, Luke Hughes is a better player than Harris right now. If you want to keep a guy around to hit off the bench, bring Hughes north.
I’d rather spend what we have left for a front-line starter, personally. If, after they acquired, say, Josh Johnson, they had money left over. I’d go after a second baseman.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Speaking of Pavano
I havent heard anything for awhile since the “been talking to his agent a little”. Anyone heard more or that the status at the moment?
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"That is the craziest sonofabitch I ever saw, how many more like him do you think are up there?"
"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"
No reason to do much talking yet
If I’m Pavano, I wait to see what Minnesota offers for arbitration and test the market elsewhere. It’s all a matter of arming myself with the information to decide whether or not to accept arbitration, and talking to the Twins doesn’t do much for that yet.
by Adam Peterson on Nov 30, 2009 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
True that
Dont know, something tells me this guy has put the injuries behind him and is about to break out, be nice if he was still with us and perhaps get another veteran in. Hell, I’d even be open to Pedro coming into town if that gave us a boost there. Now that Mauer has given till the end of spring training, no time for the Twins to dawdle on that one
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
"That is the craziest sonofabitch I ever saw, how many more like him do you think are up there?"
"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 1, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
We really don't know
We’re dealing in rumors here. Mauer (or his agent) have not publicly stated that they won’t negotiate when the season starts. Personally, I am fine with that if it is the case.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 1, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
I am not sure
where you have looked but all indications to me are that Mauer and his agents HAVE publicly stated that they will not negotiate once the season begins.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Dec 1, 2009 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
I don't believe they've spoken on the record
Yahoo Sports has a report out today that says that Mauer’s set a Spring Training deadline, but it’s attributed to “sources close to Mauer”.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Mauer
has texted Kelly Creamcakes saying that he has not set a deadline…so the previous story was just piffle and fluff.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
I thought that you don't believe anything Ms. Thesier has to say?
by montanatwinsfan on Dec 2, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
yes but I do believe
La Velle who has said that Mauer has talked to him and said “This is news to me.”
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Orlando Hudson
Does anyone here think that Hudson will not be offered arbitration by the Dodgers? If they don’t I hope the Twins make a play for him.
even if they do
I hope the Twins make a serious play for O-Hud. If the Twins want Mauer to stay, they should.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Dec 1, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
My only concern would be the cost
I doubt he’ll demand a huge contract, but he wont come cheap. He’d be a perfect 2-hole hitter infront of Mauer though. Plays reasonably good defense for his age and certainly better than Uggla’s.
If they sign Hudson, give Crede another 1 year deal, and re-sign either Pavano or somebody like Rich Harden, I’ll be pretty satisfied with the Off-season.
If they manage that
it would be the best offseason the Twins have ever had. To add Hudson, a premier defender and OBP player, Harden, an ace on our staff, and Crede – gold glove 3B with power when healthy, would definitely be the best offseason…on top of this, we have already added Hardy, a gold glove SS with a good bat.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Dec 1, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
Hudson is not a bad option
reasonable chance of getting nearly 3 WAR. His defense isn’t what it once was, but he’s solidly above average with a decent OBP. Problem is, I see him getting something in the high teens, which would wipe out much of our remaining budget.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 1, 2009 10:24 PM EST up reply actions
Polonco
The Tigers have declined to offer Polonco arbitration. Bill Smith, please go sign Polonco. NAO.
-Flip
or Hudson
or Lopez.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Just for fun...
D. Span, CF
P. Polonco, 2B
J. Mauer, C
J. Morneau, 1B
M. Cuddyer, RF
J. Kubel, DH
D. Young, LF
J. Crede(or other), 3B
J.J. Hardy, SS
-Flip
Just for fun...
Span, CF
Polanco/Lopez/Hudson, 2B
Mauer, C
Morneau, 1B
Cuddyer, RF
Kubel, DH
Crede/Valencia/Punto, 3B
Hardy, SS
Young, LF
1. Harden
2. Baker
3. Slowey
4. Blackburn
5. Pavano/Duensing/Liriano/Swarzak
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Between Polanco, Hudson and Lopez
I’d rather have Polanco at the $5-7M range than Hudson for a similar cost or Lopez for a shade less. Decent OBP in the #2 spot and excellent defense at 2B.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 1, 2009 10:27 PM EST up reply actions
Strikeouts
Polonco is “Mister Never-Strikes-Out”. Take a look at his plate appearances vs strikeouts over the last 3 seasons:
2007 – 641/30
2008 – 629/43
2009 – 675/46
Gotta love a #2 hitter that always puts the ball in play.
-Flip
I agree
Polanco is a model #2 hitter. Gardy would love having this guy hitting between Span and Mauer. And he’s no slouch in the field. If he doesn’t juice the budget, he would be a great fit for this team.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Polanco
Should be the guy the Twins chase for second or third. They could sort it all out in spring training and figure what to do with Valencia or Casilla. I would, actually, consider 3 years and $18 million. He, do people forget tradebait potential as long as someone is healthy.
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He's off the market
Phillies signed him
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Not Offered Arbitration
Rich Harden
Placido Polanco
Orlando Hudson (to all indications)
Felipe Lopez (to all indications)
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
things are working the twins favor
Vikings 4 the superbowl
yes they sure are
I am wondering what it would take to get Harden and one of the others. I assume that Lopez would be the cheapest of the 2B listed.
Could we say a $4 million, one year contract, with incentives for 125, 150, 175, 200 IP with an additional option for 2011 is a reasonable contract for Harden?
Could the Twins sign O-Hud to a 2 year, $8-10 million contract? Could they sign Polanco to a 2 year, 8 million contract? Could they sign Lopez to a two year, 7 million contract?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
im hope we sign Harden and Lopez
since the Marlins trade talk, was exactly that, just talk
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Neither Polanco nor Hudson
will sign for under $10 over two years, IMO. Lopez, perhaps, but not the others.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 1, 2009 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
O-Hud
not offered arbitration. Same with Lopez. Now it comes down to who the Twins want for their money…if they are willing to spend to get a very good 2B: O-Hud. Willing to spend for a good 2B: Polanco. Willing to spend (but not nearly as much) for a good 2B: Lopez.
I would be happy with any of these three players on the Twins. They both are prototypical #2 hitters and would fill in very nicely in front of Mauer. Get it done!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
It's time to show Mauer
that we are committed to building our team around him. Signing Hudson would go a long way towards proving that.
Hudson
Ran out of gas at the end of last year. He was benched in favor of Ronnie Belliard. I worry about speed and quickness guys when they get over thirty. The falloff can be rapid and dramatic.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 1, 2009 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Gives us a nice backup option
We don’t have to go after one of the FA third basemenm Beltre, Figgins, etc. We could go after Polanco or Hudson and fill every big a hole.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 1, 2009 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
i say for the 4th OF spot we sign Rocco Baldelli
Vikings 4 the superbowl
this is an interesting idea
and I like it. However, I have to believe that Baldelli is looking for a starting spot somewhere which would rule out the Twins, unless Gardy just falls in love with Baldelli and once again plays musical LF with Delmon.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
i could see Rocco stealing LF from Delmon
when Rocco is healthy he is a pretty good player, thats a big if though, Rocco could also start at DH vs LHP if Kubel struggles against them
Vikings 4 the superbowl
lol also Baldelli plays the twins way
all out hustle, and in 2008 he was playing when his insides were just killing him
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Sounds good
might as well sign a 4th OF who has potential to be a legit starter. If he’s cheap, that is. All our resources need to go to the infield/starting rotation before we start signing backups.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 2, 2009 9:02 PM EST up reply actions
Resources----signings
The Twins will add a lot of payroll due to raises to existing players. They will add a lot of payroll if they sign Mauer, either in the form of a bonus or by voiding 2010 on his contract. They added about $4M when they traded for Hardy. I doubt the Twins add more than one player who makes $5M+ (now an average salary for a non-rookie). It looks like Polanco is gone to the Phillies, leaving 2B options of OHud and FLopez. DeRosa, Beltre, Glaus, Feliz etc. are available at 3B. There are several high-risk pitchers on the board, but it looks like Harden is getting pursued by a lot of them. The low-reward group (including Pavano, Washburn, Garland, Davis) is there, but all of those guys will cost a minimum of $7M.
As far as fourth outfielders go, I like the idea of signing someone that might compete for the left field job or at least a platoon, but the Twins aren’t going to spend substantial money on a guy who isn’t going to play much.
My predictions: They sign one of the low reward group (looks like Pavano), go with what they have in the infield and sign a fourth outfielder to a minimum bucks or minor league contract.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Dec 3, 2009 10:34 AM EST reply actions
Hope, Hope, Hope......
Not sure if they’d get stuck with Pavano. They’ll know soon enough, then look for them to lowball Washburn.
Sheets and Bedard could be on the horizon. Bedard would be a ncie gamble, even if you signed Washburn or Pavano.
They don’t need to pursue a fourth outfielder.
We need a second baseman.
Hey, what about Dougie Mientkiewicz as backup for third/first/outfield and bench. Though he doesn’t have the power, could he suffice as a Crede replacement if the Twins choose to workin Valencia?
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