Twins trade Carlos Gomez for JJ Hardy
by Jon Marthaler on Nov 6, 2009 11:58 AM EST
in Events
335 comments
The first report was from Brewers.com, via Twitter:
Brewers acquire CF Carlos Gomez from Minnesota in exchange for SS J.J. Hardy.
I did NOT see that coming. It's been confirmed pretty much everywhere.
According to MLBTradeRumors, thanks to Hardy's midseason demotion in '09, he's under team control for 2010 and 2011.
Hardy had good seasons in 2007 and 2008 at the plate, putting up OPS+ numbers north of 100 both seasons, but was terrible last year (see stats below). He's decent defensively, though.
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It’s on the Twins homepage, too. Wow.
:(
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
haha, after thinking about it, yeah.
I just enjoyed watching Gomez.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he was fun
but you know what else is fun?
winning!
Hardy is the guy I wanted and only losing Gomez for him is pretty cheap price to pay IMO. Especially since the Twins weren’t going to use Gomez correctly.
by ckb on Nov 6, 2009 12:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would agree with that.
Winning is fun, and assuming Hardy bounces back, there could be a lot of that happening. The trade for him seems to be a steal, considering it sounded like pitching would be an absolute for any deal with Hardy. Yay!
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 12:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is the thing
Gomez was not being used properly…they weren’t playing him at all! Gomez is a premier defensive CF, with lots of upside! I wish him all the best luck in Milwaukee (and I hope to see him in the WS in 2010!).
However, if the Twins are going to go with Delmon, then Carlos is expendable, much to my chagrin. I would rather have dealt Delmon and kept Carlos and I hope BS knew what he was doing here!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing I will say
is I’m a bit surprised they stuck with Young. His defense is…bad. Just not good. His bat gets hot, but it’s never consistent. Hopefully he is a little more reliable this year.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
First half - Delmon
Second half – Demon
Who is going to play April – June in LF for the Twins?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Demon will show up all year.
We can only hope, really.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gomez > Young
While I wanted the Twins to move Young and keep Gomez, I am very happy that they have picked up a good ML shortstop and I don’t think Gomez is too much to pay. With everyday play, Gomez might start scatching his potential as an offensive player and if he gets on a lot, he will steal a lot of bases. He just wasn’t a good enough hitter here to get the playing time he needed.
I believe Hardy will have a nice comeback year. .270, 20, 80 out of a Twins shortstop (with + defense) will be a welcome change. Having one infielder that the Twins can count on for 150 is more valuable than how much he improves the position. It stabilizes things. I can live with Punto at second (I would rather have Casilla) and hope that Valencia seizes third by Memorial Day. Having the top 6 go Span, Hardy, Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel is pretty good.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have traded either straight up for Hardy
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that lineup...
Though I still think Mauer would make sense in the #2 spot, if Hardy can get his bat back, he’s a great fit for that slot. With the now more powerful Mauer on the team, the #3 spot makes a little more sense for him I guess.
by TrevorR on Nov 6, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Agree with you completely. If they weren’t going to use Gomez right, trading him is a small price. Still would have preferred trading Young, but who knows if the Brewers were even interested.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 6, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed!
I truly can’t believe that the Brewers gave up the talent that they did for the likes of Gomez! “Go-Go” is one of the worst players i have seen play the game…sure he has speed, but his bat was something disastrous to watch. He is anything but calm and steady in the box, he hacks like he is chopping wood, and he wasn’t even able to drop a bunt in a consistent manner last year. He has range, but don’t forget the play last year where he leapt and reached out at the wall, while the ball hit him in the foot ( I laughed uncontrollably). The twins are SO much better without him. I think the Twins made out extraordinarily well on the trade as the likelyhood of Hardy having a comeback year are severely greater than the likelyhood of Gomez ever being a decent player. I haven’t been this excited since the Twins rid themselves of Denny Hocking! Kudos Twins!
Now we just have to find another sucker to take that Delmon Young off our hands!
by hellabad on Nov 14, 2009 10:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank god
Bye-bye to the worst at-bats in the lineup.
Proprietor of Hockey Wilderness - We take Minnesota hockey WAY too seriously.
by nathaneide on Nov 6, 2009 12:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Then again
It proves how badly Bill Smith fucked up the Johan Santana trade.
Proprietor of Hockey Wilderness - We take Minnesota hockey WAY too seriously.
by nathaneide on Nov 6, 2009 12:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would have dtrade Santana for Hardy, Rauch and Guerra
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 12:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep.
Think of it as flipped real estate. It probably wasn’t the original plan, but we’re making out okay.
The Brewers gave us what we needed without asking for a pitcher, which I thought was a given. That being said, we’ve swapped two young, cheap, defense-oriented players coming off bad offensive years. There’s a ton of question marks. In all likelihood, one of us will look like fools in a season or two, but I don’t think there’s any way to know who.
Best of luck to Gomez; things would have been different if Span hadn’t shocked everyone in spring training ‘08. I think the kid will be good, and I’ll be happy to see it.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 12:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
the difference
is that the guy we go has played at an all star level already, the one they got is just filled with potential. I like our end of that deal but really both teams traded a guy that they had a logjam at and filled a position of need. Good move for both clubs really.
I guess that means OC is out the door.
by TrevorR on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
NO WAY
Get. Out. I don’t believe what I’m seeing.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 12:03 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
This marks the third time...
I’ve been working on a Friday feature and had it interrupted by a Twins acquisition. In the future, if you guys want anything done by the Twins front office, let me know, and I’ll start writing.
by RandBall's Stu on Nov 6, 2009 12:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry Stu.
I thought this needed to go up immediately.
by Jon Marthaler on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No worries.
I’ll put it up tonight after this has died down a bit.
by RandBall's Stu on Nov 6, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wholy Shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hell Yes!..Gomez was alright but we have finally found a permanent solution to the Short Stop problem.
by TonyO on Nov 6, 2009 12:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
short analysis from mlbtraderumors.com
While I expected the Brewers to snag a young pitcher for Hardy, I like the move for both sides. Center field was certainly a need for the Brewers with Mike Cameron eligible for free agency. While Gomez hasn’t had offensive success in his career, his stellar defense is unquestionable.
Hardy is a huge addition for the Twins, who entered the offseason needing upgrades at shorstop, third base, and second base. Due to an August demotion by the Brewers, Hardy is under team control for 2010 and 2011. He slumped offensively this year, but maintained his strong defense.
by montanatwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 12:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yea...?
another .230 avg infielder? how is this good? Joe Mauer says " Why?"
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Look past the 2009 year
and also look bast Batting Avg. He’s a darn good shortstop.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok...
career .262 hitter. couple good seasons out of 5. No doubt an upgrade at short. So I approve..I guess. Gomez trade 4 Johan just still pisses me off.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Nov 6, 2009 12:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
A lot of his value is in defense
He’s regarded as one of the better defensive shortstops in the league.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
the media tried to get a comment from Mauer
but he couldn’t hold the phone against his head and slide that yankees jersey over his head at the same time…
by caluofmn on Nov 6, 2009 12:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
STFU
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
uh that would be "buy"
oh well…point still the same… it was a joke
by caluofmn on Nov 6, 2009 6:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Keep it
You need it more. Not funny
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2009 6:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
actually more'neau,
we’re gunna pool our money together and buy you an octagonal bed.
by montanatwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 6:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My original "STFU" wasn't entirely serious
But after his “go by a sense of humor” comment, I’m glad he took it that way. His joke just wasn’t all that good to begin with.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2009 6:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It was worse than gallows humor
far worse
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 7:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
comeon…that was just ONE year. I think this is a huge steal for a guy who;s played at an all star level for a few years and has some power. Think of it as a transition to a new style of baseball for the twins. Gone are the pirranna days, this is a power lineup now.
by TrevorR on Nov 6, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am going to miss Gomez!
However, the Santana trade is looking better as this trades keep happening. Santana for Rauch, Hardy, Guerra, and Humber.
by NYCisTwinsTerritory on Nov 6, 2009 12:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fair Trade
I can get behind this one. I didn’t like Hardy for some of the packages that have been mentioned (one even included Wilson Ramos!) but this is a classic trade, where both sides could win, lose or win/lose lose/win.
I’ll miss Go-Go though. Fun player to watch, and listen to.
Ditto on the Santana trade looking better. Now if they can leverage Humber into a 2B…
by Han Joelo on Nov 6, 2009 12:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Didn't we release him?
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:01 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Humber
Was demoted (off the 40-man roster) and outrighted to Rochester. He is still in the Twins’ system and could work his way back to the majors. I’m sure he is considered roster filler at AAA now, however.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 11:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Future St. Paul Saint
I wouldn’t be surprised if Humber spends next season in the independent leagues. He’s been terrible in AAA.
by DJL44 on Nov 7, 2009 8:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Humber......
What was truly amazing was the day the Twins first sent him out, and he passed waivers. No Kansas City, Pittsburgh. NO ONE grabbed him for a back-of-the-rotation or even end of the bullpen bench chacne in the majors.
It will be interesting to see what AAAA-team spot he plays, but he could very well disgress to AA ball, or the indy leagues.
If there was one sorepoint with the Santana trade, it was taking this guy. Memories of Adam Johnson, J.D. Durbin anyone?
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Nov 7, 2009 9:37 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
awesome!
this is a good move, we can’t have four starting outfielders, and gomez was by far the most raw hitter. I just don’t see him ever being consistent with the bat, yes we lose range and that sucks, but finally gain a shortstop for years to come and if he can find his groove again this strengthens our lineup. When people say well why not let the santana trade play out? you can’t live like that, it’s not about just waitin it out just to see if we won the trade, you take gomez out of the trade and put Hardy in. I like Bill Smith for the aggressive moves he has made, they haven’t been perfect but you know what he has balls and that’s something Terry Ryan doesnt. Now let’s re-sign Crede for the same deal and let Valencia fit into his role when the callups time comes.
by Cody_3_twins on Nov 6, 2009 12:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gosh, I feel so prescient. Good guess, I guess
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, thanks for an interesting few months, O-Cab.
It’s been a pleasure.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 12:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
i'm somewhat meh on the actual trade
but happy now that there’s a 0% chance of O-CAB coming back
by ajmargarine on Nov 6, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
although
O-Cab (along with Gomez) brought a certain spunk to this team. O-Cab yelled at players and got everybody on the same page…he was very vocal. Same with Redmond. Due to this, I would have appreciated bringing him back.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well isn't that uplifting?
haha, despite his playing, I like O-Cab.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i liked him to, just not as a SS
i don’t think his vocalness/leadership would trump his range and hitting, which are going down down down
by ajmargarine on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this is true
I liked him as a person, but not as a player.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Decent Defense?
More like outstanding defense. At SS. I like this move. Love? maybe not that strong. But I don’t see offensive potential in Gomez’s bat.
by Milt on Tilt on Nov 6, 2009 12:32 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So we lose
the best defensive CF in the league for one of the best defensive SS in the league? Shucks! I guess this means that we are going with Delmon (no bat first half, bat second half, no defense). This is kind of upsetting in some ways. I loved Gomez…to not have him on the team is going to suck!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
watch Gomez
have a breakout season! Win a gold glove and everything! I am sort of disappointed with this move…I would rather have traded Delmon and Perkins. Delmon had better be worth his everyday play!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
break out season?
I see no indicators Gomez was ever going to hit enough to play everyday. The guy suffers from a bad case of cognitive dissonance. “I see myself as a 3-hitter.”
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 12:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and so does Delmon...
so that just fell through the roof. Carlos is a better player than Delmon with tons more upside!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
Why does everyone say this is a battle between Delmon and Gomez? Neither will figure into the Twins long-term plans. They are both bad.
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 12:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
Delmon certainly figures into next year’s plans (presumably).
by Eric in Madison on Nov 6, 2009 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably
But will be replaced by midseason if he flounders again. Point is, the simple comparison between the two is a false one. For all the hype and potential, Gomez contributed little. And he had to be driving the brain trust nuts with his stobborness and lack of fundamentals.
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All of which could be said about Young as well
by Eric in Madison on Nov 6, 2009 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
By who?
I don’t think the Twins have anyone in the system that’d be ready to be a midseason replacement for Delmon.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Nov 6, 2009 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it depends on whether a DH-type is offered or pops up from somewhere.
Kubes wants back in the outfield very badly, and hits better when he’s there.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
even during Delmon's down times
at the beginning of the year, he still had a higher batting average than Gomez. Neither has a great eye. Delmon is younger and still has the potential to hit for power. I think this is the twins way of making an adjustment to the new stadium. The years of relying on getting 13 hits for 5 runs are behind us.
by TrevorR on Nov 6, 2009 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Go-Go too
But I think the Twins decided last year that they weren’t going to have him start for the team. It’s nice to see him get a chance elsewhere. I still think the Twins won this trade.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The outfield defense
has me concerned now. If we kept Carlos and traded Delmon, I would not be concerned. However, Delmon sucks in LF, CF is Span’s worst position, and Cuddyer is older and probably wont be here past 2011.
The Twins had better hope that Revere is ready by 2011, because they are going to need him in LF with Delmon moving to RF. Angel Morales and Aaron Hicks had better be right on Revere’s tail too!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OF Defense
OF defense just got a lot easier moving to Target Field. You don’t need two CF out there anymore.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 12:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not too late to pick up a decent LFer
But I doubt the Twins are thinking about it like this. They probably just handed Delmon a starting spot next year :(
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
unless they manage to get Grady Sizemore (who might be on the block this year), or unless they pursue Matt Holiday/Marlon Byrd/Carl Crawford/or Jason Bay, the Twins are going with Delmon. UGH! Both for the offense from April – June and for the outfield defense!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you think the indians would trade Sizemore
to the twins…your dreaming!
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am dreaming
but unless we get a significant offer for a LFer, we are stuck with Delmon, at least until the trade deadline (if not longer).
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OF Defense is bad, but...
We have no idea how Target field is going to play int he outfield. Young was bad, and worse yet he played 81 games in the dome with a pretty wide open LF. I think it is worth the gamble.
We upgrade our offense and defense without really spending any money. I say they sign Crede back at the identical contract he had last year, if he accepts, and have an infield defense of Crede, Hardy, Punto and Morneau. There would be alot of run prevention with that group, adn instantly gives us one of the best infield defenses in the AL.
by TC Brent on Nov 6, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, maybe Delmon improves his D at Target Field
Those lights in left field really seemed to bother him – more than any Twins player I’ve seen. I might be grasping at straws here…
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I hope that Target Field will not play any havoc to Delmon’s already paltry defense.
Hardy/Punto/Morneau/Crede certainly give the Twins one of the best defensive infields. Would it be too much to ask to lower the defensive a little in order to bring in Uggla? Uggla immediately would slid right behind Morneau, lower the defense in the infield, but provide significant offensive improvement.
Span – CF
Hardy – SS
Mauer – C
Morneau – 1B
Uggla – 2B
Kubel – DH/LF
Cuddyer – RF
Crede – 3B
Young – LF/DH
This lineup looks a whole lot better than:
Span – CF
Hardy – SS
Mauer – C
Morneau – 1B
Kubel – DH/LF
Cuddyer – RF
Crede – 3B
Young – LF/DH
Punto – 2B
I guess the question that must be asked going into the season is, what do the Twins value more? A decent defensive infield with supreme power from all sectors, or a great defensive infield with power from 3 sectors. Its a question that needs to be thought over. I personally like lineup one…any lineup that can put Delmon, who is a good hitter (2nd half) in the 9 spot, is a great lineup!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think
Chances of adding another infielder who makes more than Punto are about 0%. I really doubt they add Uggla or Hudson or Polanco or players of that ilk.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I still want to dream that the Pohlads will outspend their budget and sign Figgins
Make it a nice gift to the good people who helped them build that great ballpark
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 7:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees
Had Swisher and Johnny Damon flanking Melky and won a World Series. I am not going to say OF defense is overrated, but if you mash (Manny!) it’s okay if you let a couple of singles fall in.
Also, I don’t think the defensive metrics are there yet to really capture who is good and who is bad.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 6:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
I think he would have loved to. But we didn’t want him. Because we saw him play.
by Milt on Tilt on Nov 6, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It starts
With a bang I guess. I like the move although it is basically another challenge trade. Smith is betting that Hardy’s bat will turn around before GO-GO’s, and if I had to bet I would bet int he favor of Hardy. Both are game changing defenders and both play a premium position so this trade is all about whose bat come around first.
BTW, aren’t Hardy and Mauer good friends? I thought i read that some place.
by TC Brent on Nov 6, 2009 12:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
did anyone see if Morneau was going to be ok with this move?
oh wait he’s a former live-in lover…damn Mauer is just making his way through the MLB…look out Grady Sizemore you’re next! Mauer wants to know if he lives up to his name…
by caluofmn on Nov 6, 2009 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This just in...
Morneau and Mauer are hetero life-mates, not lovers. Kind of like Marx and Engels or Starsky and Hutch.
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 1:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you could have stopped at Marx and Engles
that would have made them super cool in my eyes…good thing you didn’t go the Bert and Ernie route b/c that might not have helped the hetero-lifemates, not lovers arguement…
by caluofmn on Nov 6, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh. I bet this is a factor for the Mauer contract then.
If Mauer wanted Hardy, and Milwaukee wanted Gomez and not Young, then so be it.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
I’m thrilled to get Hardy, but my initial reaction is that this is brutal for the outfield defense. Mostly I just have no faith in Young ever getting any better, so committing to him doesn’t really thrill me.
Still, a bold stroke to go out and get a shortsop is a good thing.
by Eric in Madison on Nov 6, 2009 12:44 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
D
Isn’t everyday SS defense much more important than late-inning replacement OF defense?
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I don’t know why you limit it to late inning OF defense—without this trade I would have started Gomez, myself. However, shortstop is important (though Punto is a good defensive player too), but the Twins have a flyball staff, making OF range is important.
Look, I’m not against this trade—I’ve been wanting Hardy too. I just don’t like a Span with Cuddyer and Young OF very much
by Eric in Madison on Nov 6, 2009 12:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Outfield defense has me questioning this move as well. The Twins had better upgrade every infield spot now (Dan Uggla – 2B, Crede/Valencia – 3B). Outfield Defense is going to suffer this next year because Cuddy is getting older (contract doesnt go past 2010), Delmon sucks, and CF is Span’s worst position in the outfield.
I would have started Gomez every day! Gomez defense and his skills make me start him every day. Gomez has better upside (mostly due to his defense) then Delmon could ever hope to have.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 12:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
all correct. I would feel better if Delmon could actually hit like a corner outfielder, but since he neither hits nor fields, it’s disconcerting that he’ll be playing every day.
Still, Hardy is a good get.
by Eric in Madison on Nov 6, 2009 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
And
you gotta give something up to get something.
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
well
Bill Smith has given up ALOT to get not much! So….what are we to expect based on this signing?! Yes, we did solve our SS problem, and I did get my wish for Hardy…but did we open up a problem in the outfield? This remains to be seen?
Will Delmon hit like he did in September and be able to maintain that throughout the year? Will Delmon all of a sudden become a Lou Gehrig of the outfield? Too many questions…at least with Gomez we would only have to question his bat.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
Bill Smith gave up “a lot”? Who? Are you secretly Gomez posting on this board?
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 1:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gave up a lot
Garza/Bartlett for Harris/Young
Santana for Gomez/Humber/Mulvey/Guerra
Santana trade doesnt seem so bad now – Rauch/Hardy/Guerra
However, the fact remains that BS has not had the best luck with trades in the past…I am not saying that this is another one of those trades – I wanted Hardy – but I am a little upset at the cost (especially to the Twins outfield defense in 2010).
BS does seem to do better with FA signings/waiver deals – Jon Rauch, Ron Mahay
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
okay
you were talking about regrettable earlier trades. I agree.
There could also be a disturbing trend of trading talented guys who don’t do things the “Twins Way” (Bart, Garza, Gomez). Having a chip on your shoulder can be a good thing in competitive sports.
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is Smith's best trade yet, by far
I think he’s done a decent job in the past year, actually
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 1:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
This trade by far is his best. Also, I agree…it did seem a pretty fair swap of talent. A first round pick with huge upside for a proven starter and questionable SS. Unfortunately, Delmon regressed and Bartlett, in particular, gained.
Bartlett is one of the best all around fielders now…Garza is a number 2-3 starter. Delmon still has huge upside, but for some reason it takes three months to get him going. Maybe the fact that he will be playing every day will instill some confidence in him, and his bat will pick up. Could we see a .300/.354/.487 year from Delmon or is this too much to hope for?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, from what hat did you pull those numbers for Delmon? ;)
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
my positive hat
my negative hat says .254/.300/.387
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps there is more to come
Other moves to be made….I hope.
"A government big enough to give you everything you want, is strong enough to take everything you have"
Thomas Jefferson
by RileysCannibalJct on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
like Uggla?
I certainly hope so! Perkins, Delaney, Casilla/Tolbert, + 2 more for Uggla…good trade for both sides. Maybe, we could throw in Delmon too, but only if the Twins are certain that they will get a LFer.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No, Twins definitely did well in this trade
I think this is something both SABR-types and more traditional fans and scouts would agree on. Hardy is just a much better player than Gomez.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 1:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
All this presumes that we could have gotten a good SS for Delmon.
We need a defensive upgrade in the infield more than the outfield. I’ll be anything Milwaukee said only Gomez was acceptable (or possibly would only take Delmon with a pitcher). Bottom line, we need a good SS desperately and had outfielders to burn.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:12 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
here here
Read Roger’s reports. The Twins have a gaping hole at SS all the way down to little league. The few top prospects they have are OF’s. Gomez was a superfluous one-trick pony. Upside schmupside.
by wcooley on Nov 6, 2009 1:16 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven't laughed this hard...
…in a long time wcooley….all the way to little league! Thanks!
by roger13 on Nov 6, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My oh my what a fantastic move
I believe Gomez can be a good player in the league but he’s not beating out Span anytime soon and Hicks/Revere/Morales are quickly moving up the chain. The Twins trade from an organizational strength (CF) the guy who might have the least upside and get someone who fills in the biggest organizational weakness.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 12:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Nicely put.
Twins fill a gaping hole at SS with someone who is essentially an extraneous player for the Twins. I think Delmon’s chance of having a breakout season with the bat next year is something like 30x higher than Gomez’s, as much as I love the speedy spaz. I had no idea Hardy would be available for so little.
by Mauer4evauer on Nov 6, 2009 1:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It is kind of strange.
Everyone was assuming a pitcher would need to be bargained for Hardy. Interesting that it was Gomez for Hardy straight up (unless there’s cash involved somewhere, but I haven’t read that at all), with no pitching.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps they've got someone they'd rather buy.
They don’t have to pay Mike Cameron anymore; in some ways, you can say they got Gomez and $11M for Hardy.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
They also cleared Hardy's salary...
… presumably. If word breaks that the Brewers are picking up some of his salary as part of the deal, there will be a riot at brewcrewball. Some are defending the deal by pointing out the money they’ll save on Cameron, but frankly, that was already a done deal. Unless Gomez does something entirely unforseen with his bat next season, the Brewers just got pantsed, IMHO.
What begins in fear usually ends in folly.
by Ted Simmons Speed Camp on Nov 6, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Joe Benson
I suspect Benson will be the first outfielder to make an impact in the majors.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 6:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say Tosoni is first, but Benson is in there
With Benson, Morales and Hicks, they are loaded with speedy guys with five-tool potential.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 7:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Certainly interesting
If this means Span won’t rotate in the outfield and can stay in spot, that’s fine
by Hjorvarthr on Nov 6, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
So, we traded somebody who needs to show immediate improvement
or his career will soon be over for somebody else who needs to show immediate improvement or his career will soon be over. Could be good, or we could end up with egg on our face. We shall see
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 1:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Hardy's a long way from "career over"
He’s a great defensive SS. He could hit like Adam Everett and keep finding a job. A couple years ago he hit 20 HR. They bought “low” on Hardy.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 1:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
oh he has upside...
… and I’m not saying this is a bad move, but unless your name is Nick Punto, you don’t get away with too many .22X seasons in a row.
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually you probably can, as long as you play superior defense.
Everett is a horrible shortstop. There’ve been a number of them through baseball history, even in the last 20 years.
Luckily, I highly doubt Hardy will be a .220 hitter again.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
no I project
Hardy in the .280-.300 range again…for several years. His + defense will add a lot to this infield (no more duck flap throws from Punto at SS to Morneau). I project big things from Hardy this year, and I can’t see myself being disappointed.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough...
I’ll amend my statement a bit. You should not get away with batting .220 for more than a season if you plan to start for a contender. Nevertheless, we have seen that this isn’t true for our twinkies the past couple seasons. I’m leaning towards this being a solid trade, but I have to take a wait and see approach before I claim it’s wonderful news
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Last Year
He DID hit like Adam Everett.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 6:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Great move in my opinion...
…First, It solves our four plus Kubel outfield dilema. Now we can play three guys regularly and carry someone like Jason Pridie on the roster next year until one of the kids is ready.
Second, it solves our shortstop problem with a good defensive shortstop with some pop. This also means that the Twins weren’t serious about bringing back Cabrera who wasn’t as good as advertised, especially defensively.
Third, our strongest position in the minor leagues is centerfield with Denard Span a pretty good one here right now. It may be likely that Ben Revere will become a good major league hitter sooner than Gomez. Yes, I like Gomez’ defense…but one has to wonder if he will ever become a good hitter.
Great to see Mr. Smith make a move. Now clear some roster spots to add a few of these kids that we need to add to the roster.
by roger13 on Nov 6, 2009 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also,
we must disregard Delmon’s first half last year because of what he was going thru in his personal life.
by roger13 on Nov 6, 2009 1:25 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
It shows that Delmon is easily distracted into “complete suck”.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Easily distracted...
…by the fact his mother was dying. I believe your comment is inappropriate.
by roger13 on Nov 6, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was a bit innapropriate
but I don’t by the argument that Delmon’s early season troubles can be completely attributed to this tragedy. He did completely suck.
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree w/Roger 100%.
For a second, imagine what that woudl feel like for YOU.
I always loved that one.
by FoulJack on Nov 6, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No need to preach empathy to me
I understand that there is no chance he was 100% focused on the game of baseball, however, Delmon was bad for far too long for this to be the sole factor for his early season troubles. Delmon wasn’t much of a producer until very late in the season.
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on
I’m really down on Delmon myself, but it’s pretty apparent he was completely distracted by his mother’s death for about 3 weeks.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He was bad worse than 3 weeks
And other players have performed much better with domestic distractions. It’s a ‘reason’ but not an ‘excuse’.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, thank God he doesn't have any more mothers to kill, then.
Yeesh.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:35 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
That comment is just plain inappropriate
by roger13 on Nov 6, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm being sarcastic.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:44 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you need sarcasm font.
Just to make sure. :)
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is there sarcasm font?
I’m posting from my iPhone, and there’s not alot of extras on the mobile site.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:58 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think sarcasm font works for mobile.
At least, not mine. But if you want to try, it’s @ before and after what you want. Doesn’t work in the subject line, though.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure the death of your mother when you're only 23 counts as easily distractable.
Pancreatic cancer is also a fast and horrible way to go. I remember reading he was just devestated; Gardy told everyone to lay off, and I’m not sure I remember that happening before.
Is Delmon going to improve? No idea. Should we trade him? Probably, if the offer is good. But to call him “easily distractable” after what happened is a low blow, IMHO.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Well then he has a great opportunity to prove himself this year.
And if he has another first half that ‘completely sucks’, ship him off. We can’t afford for his defense to be terrible and then not even have a good bat in place.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+100000000
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.
A baseball team is designed to win; if you can’t help with that, you have to go, no matter the reason. What’s chafing at me in this thread is that Delmon’s grief at the loss of his mother seems to be considered a moral failing. His head wasn’t in the game, and that had to be dealt with, but it’s not like it was because he was going out every night and snorting nose candy.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that.
Anyone that’s lost a parent knows that no matter how much money you’re being paid, your focus is not going to be entirely on anything.
That said…Delmon really sucks. And even excusing his few weeks of bad play regarding his mom…he still sucks. :\
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Delmon is as likely to break out as Gomez.
Which is to say, not all that likely. But frankly, I didn’t have a strong opinion on who stayed, given that one of them would go.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:56 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
That's fair enough.
I guess I just like the enthusiasm that Gomez has for the game (which I do realize is his downfall as well). Delmon seems very boring. Not much personality from what I’ve seen.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
…I admit, I felt very badly for Delmon last spring. To have his mother go from diagnosis to death so fast; to miss most of her last few months due to spring training; to think of his family life (tyrant of a father, was awful on his and Dmitri, sounds like), then to lose the only one you’re close to… and all at 23. I remember reading how the players got together to give a big donation to pancreatic cancer research, and when they told him, he cried so much he had to leave. I’m soft-hearted. I wanted to make him soup. So I cut him a lot of slack ladt spring.
It’s true, he has a lot of responsibilities as a baseball player, and adjustments have to be made when he can’t fulfill them, whether it be because of personal tragedy or poor early year swings or anything else. But my hackles get raised to see his suffering get treated with such flippancy. A mother’s death isn’t hard just for the “easily distractable.”
Okay, I think I’m done ranting now.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 2:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, no, ranting is valid.
I will agree, the comments were out of line. I hadn’t heard about the players making a donation before. That’s actually quite awesome. Chalk up another reason to love the Twins.
All I’m saying is…even without the death of his mother, his defense is pretty bad. He bumbles around left field like he’s not sure what’s going on. His offense in the second half was really his only saving grace this year.
I would like to see Young have a good year next year, but I don’t think the defense is going to change much. His bat may heat up, and that may save him and keep him around, but he’s just painful to watch sometimes.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Why were they playing him then?
If he was a total wreck, put him on the bereavement list and don’t play him! We all have to go through terrible crap in our personal lives. Some people are able to keep doing their job through it all and some aren’t.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 1:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe he was
on the bereavement list, but a player can be on there only so long if I remember correctly.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll take back "easily"
Still, I will always disagree that you get to cherry pick his performance only for when he was good. Look at his last 2 full seasons – nothing worth paying more than the minimum salary to get.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 1:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree in a certain sense
but career numbers have shown that Delmon has always had trouble with first half play (aside from TB…maybe).
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
career numbers aside from TB = 2 seasons
One of which he was dealing with his mom dying. I think the first-half/second-half thing is being overblown.
by cooldude on Nov 6, 2009 1:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I am willing to give
Delmon the benefit of the doubt for early this season with his mother unfortunately passing away. (something I cannot imagine). However, his previous year was paltry in the first half as well…I am sensing a groove here.
I hate to say this but maybe the passing away of his mother snapped Delmon into reality. Maybe, due to his August/September performances, he has started to work hard and listen to his coaches. If so, Delmon has a ton of upside, as a hitter, not as a defender.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think much changed in Delmon
His hot streak in the second half – he was certainly hitting the ball a lot farther and made some more contact, but he wasn’t any more patient. The guy had like 15 BB’s on the year.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is true
Delmon’s K and BB rate stayed the same. Gomez improved. His line drive percentage was higher than Delmons I believe as well (at least year wise) not taking into account September.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The disappointing part of this trade to me...
…is that we didn’t give them another player or two. We really need some spots on that 40-man roster.
by roger13 on Nov 6, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
when we trade for Uggla
we will free a lot of room! (hopefully)
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Bush-man
And it makes it even more strange that we let Buscher go before the WS ended…
I was sure that was an indicator of something…
O-Cab is gone, and probally either Harris/Tolbert/Punto/Casilla..I wonder which one.
by clutterheart on Nov 6, 2009 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
won't be Punto
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
by fetch9 on Nov 6, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Iwamura
I still think the Twins might have been players late in the Iwamura talks more than we know. Just a hunch of mine I guess.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Nov 6, 2009 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I often wonder
if the Twins are possibly working with the Pirates to take Iwamura in exchange for somebody who the Pirates really need…do we have another Garrett Jones?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I do get how Iwamura fits into the long term rebuilding plans of a team like the Pirates.
Seems like they might value someone like Cassilla…
by clutterheart on Nov 6, 2009 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't be surprised if it were Casilla or Tolbert.
Maybe Harris, if Gardy has his way…
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tolbert will probably stay
along with Punto. Tolbert’s flexibility, especially if we do not get at second baseman, will be his plus. Tolbert is a good defender.
Harris and Casilla, I predict to be gone, along with Keppel, Perkins, and Crain.
It is interesting to look at the Twins new roster. Pridie has taken Gomez’s place on the roster now.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crain got his groove back, though.
I don’t think we can afford to lose competent bullpen guys right now.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 1:53 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Crain will go.
But Perkins and Keppel…adios and farewell. Perkins really lost a lot of respect for the whole grievance issue. Complaining about his arm, etc etc. No huge loss there. Keppel…well, aside from the game 163 heroics was erm, well you guys watched. You know.
Tolbert is an interesting player. He can play really well, and the turn around and make an error or two. Seems like you can get that with Harris, Casilla, and Punto as well. Awesome!
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you need to get off the "Crain is gone" bandwagon, because it isn't going to happen.
He pitched well after returning to the Twins, and in spite of a lot of depth as far as bullpen options go, there are still question marks for being effective. Crain is going to be part of the 2010 Twins, you can count on it.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This could be
unless the Twins strike gold in the relief market. So far what do the Twins go into next season with?
Nathan
Rauch
Mijares
Guerrier
*Crain
*Keppel
*Neshek
*Bonser
*Liriano
Stars by the ones who possibly will be in a Twins uniform/healthy next year. We could very well see both Crain and Keppel go, due to the spots that Gardy will probably wish to open up for Bonser/Liriano/Duensing and Neshek
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
True, there are some big decisions to make.
Traditionally the Twins go with a four-man bench, which means a 12-man pitching staff. Five starters (Baker, Slowey, Blackburn, Perkins, Swarzak if we go with guys you didn’t name) and five relievers…three of the four guys not named Keppel that you starred will be up for a spot.
More likely, I see it turning out like this:
Starters
Baker
Slowey
Blackburn
Perkins
Liriano
Bullpen
Nathan
Rauch
Mijares
Guerrier
Crain
Neshek
Bonser
This assumes the Twins don’t bring anyone in, which I’m pretty sure they will.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Perkins over Duensing?
Unless spring training is a complete surprise, I don’t see that.
I’ll be very interested to see what Boof is throwing in a few months. Ditto with Neshek, of course.
Also… I don’t know, but I’ve got a feeling they’ll shop Liriano pretty hard. He doesn’t have the confidence of the organization, and frankly, I think he’s crossed pretty firmly into Joe Mays territory. But I bet there’s still lots of teams that would want to work with him, and would give up some decent parts for the opportunity.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 2:40 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
If Perk is still here, I think he'll get the nod.
But I can see Duensing over Swarzak.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 3:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who I didn't even mention...
…oh well. Choices to be made. Definitely.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't see Duensing not making starter after how he saved our asses this season.
Unless he has a terrible spring.
Also, Boof could return rotation-ready.
And Slowey might still be hurting.
So… Baker, Blackburn, ?, ?, ?.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 3:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
What about his salary?
Maybe he’ll just be too expensive for a guy who likely slots into a middle-relief role.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not so much that it will force this team's hand.
Not in 2010. Additionally, if we’re looking at dollars-for-effective pitching, he’s not that expensive yet. Once he reaches free agency, yeah probably. But not yet.
If he struggles we might see the Twins cut bait during the season, with guys like Slama and Delaney and Burnett waiting in the wings. But with Crain, while I agree there should be discussion on risk versus reward, I’m having a hard time coming up with a situation where the Twins just don’t tender him a contract.
Now, trade bait? Absolutely…
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is
This is a risky move for both teams. Both players have offensive issues (in general for Gomez, last season for hardy) but I see Hardy as the much better bet to bounce back.
The only thing here is our outfield D, as it sits, is very poor, and we’re a flyball heavy staff.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Nov 6, 2009 1:55 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Thinking ahead
The Twins seem to be great at not signing players at the right time, such as not extending Torii or Santana a year earlier and now Joe Mauer is going to likely cost them much more than he would have had they extended him last off season. I gotta wonder if the Twins would be smart to try to set up a long term deal with Hardy right now. There’s risk in that he did have a rough year but I’m willing to bet he’s closer to his 07-08 self than his 09. Likely somewhere in between the two and with his solid defense throughout he should be quite valuable even if his bat doesn’t completely rebound. However, if he does get back to that point this year he’s suddenly a 10 million or more a year SS who’s one year from free agency. I think the Twins should act this offseason and sign him to a 3-4 year deal at a 5 million a year average and maybe some big options at the end of it. The Twins have no good SS that are close in the system and Hardy could really be worth it.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Nov 6, 2009 1:56 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I love everything about this trade.
Helps both teams, rids us of numerous problems. BRAVO.
I always loved that one.
by FoulJack on Nov 6, 2009 2:01 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well Brewers fans don't seem to be very pumped about this
I just popped over the the Brewers SBnation site and many were none too happy assuming they would at least get a starting pitcher for them. It’s kinda nice to be on this side of a trade.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Nov 6, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I don't blame them.
But I think once they analyse it a bit they’ll realize they got something pretty damn good. A full year of Gomez in center field will A) do wonders for their defense, they won’t miss Mike Cameron and B) do wonders for hit future.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
Alcides Escobar is ready to take over at SS. Plus, there are still plenty of good SP options on the FA market, so the Brewers could very well be in a good position.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Won't help their year to year defense one bit
Cameron’s still really good out there and Escobar might have a sophomore slump at SS. It does wonders for their pocketbook saving $15M and filling the positions with two cheap guys. I did read somewhere that Gomez is a Super 2 though.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd wager that
a 24 year old Gomez would significantly out-perform a 37-year old Mike Cameron next season. Cam was still a +10.3 UZR/150 player in center this year, and Gomez was a +10, but one is going up and the other is going down.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently Hardy's a bit of a lefty-masher too
.278/.363/.510
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Question on Hardy
Does anybody have any thoughts on why Hardy took a step backward lat season? Is it something that can be fixed? Doesn’t seem like National League players seem to struggle or drop off a little bit in the American League (I’m thinking Holliday here)? That might be my only concern here, but otherwise it seems to be a good move since Gomez didn’t look like he was going to break out.
by stltwinfan on Nov 6, 2009 2:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Low BABIP
which might just mean that his hits just weren’t falling in as much as they usually do. However, IIRC that might be attributable to him hitting fewer line drives last year. Also, his power numbers dropped off a bit, so maybe he just wasn’t hitting the ball as hard.
I think he might never be the offensive player he was in 2007-2008 again, but he’s only 27.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
At his best,
he’ll be a guy who could hit behind Kubel. You’re right about the potential of a rebound, and even though he’s right-handed I hope the Twins don’t hit him second.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Got a better option
for what was a complete black hole in the lineup until we got OCab? Or is that still a piece that we need to find?
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mauer is #3
and always will be.
Hardy will go #2
Mauer #3
Morneau #4
hopefully Dan Uggla #5
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mauer may be a better option
but batting 4 straight lefties is not a good idea. This is a tough lineup, because you need to weigh seperating lefties vs. batting your best players first. I think the ideal lineup would be
Span
Mauer
Cuddy
Morneau
Kubel
Hardy
etc.
But it will probably be
Span
Hardy
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddy
Kubel
etc.
That lineup is still pretty good, but even projecting a bounceback season, Hardy is our 6th best hitter. He should not be hitting second. Also, research has shown that OBP is more important in the 2 slot than 3, and SLG more important in the 3 than 2. So the first lineup would highlight Mauer and Cuddyer’s strengths. I really don’t think it would make a huge difference, as we at least wouldn’t have punto or Ocab in the 2 hole. Either way, that top 6 is in the same ball park as the Yankees’, and probably better than anyone elses.
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 6, 2009 6:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You just know Hardy is already penciled in to bat 2nd
That’s one of Gardy’s more irritating quirks. It’s not the exact player he bats second that bothers me so much as the inflexibility, that it has to be the SS.
I like your lineup, especially Mauer battng second.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 6, 2009 7:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would wait 'till spring to project the line-up
I still think they’ll consider adding O-Hud, P-Pol and S-Fig to their infield. But, if they don’t, I could see just shifting the line-up up one. Hardy is not a number 2 hitter.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I just think that as it stands, Hardy is almost definitely there. If he isn’t, then its even worse – punto. If we pick up a second basemen, whoever it is, then yes, that person will be there.
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 6, 2009 8:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
whoever it is
umm if it is Dan Uggla, then Uggla definitely wont be batting second. Uggla would bat behind Morneau in the fifth spot.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 11:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably will be Punto
He’s got a good OBP when he’s going good and likes to bunt. Hopefully Punto is doing his batting 2nd three days a week rather than everyday.
by DJL44 on Nov 7, 2009 8:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just my opinion from watching him...
Hardy is a total boom or bust player. Even those decent-looking numbers from 2007 and 2008 were built on two hot months and four terrible ones. IIRC, he hit about 20 of his homers in 2007 before June, and then stunk the rest of the year. I seem to recall him being just as inconsistent in the field, but will defer to the D Metrics on that one…
Hope I’m wrong, but I just don’t see this deal as good value for Hardy. Believe he’s due to make about $5 mil, and we gave up Gomez (who I think is a better short-term and long-term bet for success).
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Nov 6, 2009 6:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless of what you think of his offense
his defense is not boom or bust. Its boom. That will be there all season long, even if he struggles.
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 6, 2009 8:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not my experience...
Watching him play the NL Central 80 times a year, but we’ll see if you’re right…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Nov 6, 2009 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Also
I have seen no evidence that being “streaky” is worse than being “consistent” assuming the numbers come out at the end of the season. If he hits all 20 home runs in the first 20 games, that doesn’t make them worse than hitting them over the course of a season.
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 6, 2009 8:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree...
Helping us win 20 blowouts in the first two months is not as good as hitting consistently over the course of the season…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Nov 6, 2009 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
that is true
Better to be consistent than to be good at a meaningless time and/or bad at a key time.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 6, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Can we at least convince Hardy
to start sniffing his bat and talk in broken english? Then, I’ll be totally cool with this.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 2:26 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Put it in his contract.
If he doesn’t do it, no money.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This is from Twins Geek
Before I heard that Buscher had been outrighted, I had heard from both local and national sources that the Twins were in final talks over Iwamura. Now, I hear stuff like this all the time, but the Buscher roster moves raises those rumors to another level.
I’ll stop short of saying there is NO reason to make that roster move at this time if the Twins were not expecting to acquire a player, because there could be something personal going on with Buscher that we don’t know about. But the timing of it is exceptionally strange. Usually the timing for this kind of move points to a second move.
So – damn. Iwamura has a career OBP of .354 and plays league average defense at second base, which are two thing the Twins didn’t do in 2009. He’s been a leadoff hitter for most of his MLB career, which would’ve played nice at #2 in the order, though he does bat left-handed.
This puts a new spin on the Aki trade talks. Imagine if the Twins had both acquired Aki and Hardy in the same week! Apparently the Twins were in “heated” discussions with the Rays. My question is: What happened?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing the Rays liked Chavez more than
whatever the Twins were offering, and the Twins didn’t feel like upping the ante. Good for them.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Was this a 1-1 deal?
KFAN meantioned this being a 4 player deal.
But it was the common man
by clutterheart on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I've heard it's a straight swap and nothing more.
But stay tuned, we’ll see.
by Jesse on Nov 6, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
this could be interesting!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Initial reaction...
Huge defensive hit in the outfield, but a huge defensive upgrade in the infield. I like it.
Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.
by TwinsTarget on Nov 6, 2009 2:38 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
The Beard approves
Good move.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 6, 2009 2:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Best first post ever?
Best first post ever.
Although now I can’t use my intended new username “Miguel Angel Sano’s puberty moustache.”
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Beard speaketh...
The Beard will be a regular Twinkie Town feature, as long as it doesn’t get shaved. Let’s hope Jason has a great year and doesn’t get too supersticious.
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Nov 6, 2009 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I vote we start a campaign to ensure Kubes keeps his beard.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
can we start one to have Blackburn keep his too?
by NYCisTwinsTerritory on Nov 6, 2009 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes yes yes!
The magic of Blackbeard needs to stay.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 3:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I want Blackburn to show up in Ft. Myers
looking like Grizzly Adams. His wife should hide all razors.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy's going to have to pick
In the picture he has sideburns AND a beard. You can’t do both on this team.
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 3:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He should lose the facial hair.
It’s not doing much for him.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 3:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He needs to connect the 'burns to the 'stache.
Ala: 
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It would make him look really distinguished,
But you know, without all the grays.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sometimes,
I just google image search “badass m*****f******* beards” to try and inspire myself.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 3:26 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
How does that work out for you?
Running-up-stairs-while-pumping-fists inspired? Maybe some “Eye of the Tiger” in the background?
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh god yeah.
Look at this and tell me it doesn’t fire you up:
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He's married?
Dammit.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 3:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, his wife is the one that gave him the infamous "Pumpkin Tits" nickname.
Though, agreed. Disappointing.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know her
but I’m pretty sure his wife is awesome.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Then maybe she'll share!
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 3:32 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy trade
has Twins fans a little punchy!
by cooldude on Nov 6, 2009 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Punchy nothing.
I spent most of the Blackburn/Greinke game unable to focus due to his eyelashes. If she’ll share I won’t ask for anything else for Christmas, I promise, Santa.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 4:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Just FYI...
According to his MLB bio, Hardy is single. Just throwing that out there. :)
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow that's enough horn dog
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
by fetch9 on Nov 6, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Just sharing information with a fellow Twins fan. Shut it.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 4:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seconded, on both counts
Also, was I the only one who was disappointed that the Twins didn’t break out playoff facial hair as a team? That seems like something Cuddyer or Redmond would’ve spearheaded.
There was a blog featured on Deadspin a couple weeks ago dedicated to Brad Childress’ beard. I emailed them suggesting that Jim Kleinsasser’s beard be added as a recurring character.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Nov 6, 2009 4:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Smith implied that re-signing Joe Crede is a possibility, as he has talked to Scott Boras. Smith added that Delmon Young is a lock to be tendered a contract.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:43 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
from MLBTRADERUMORS
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 2:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Clarification...
Smith didn’t say that Young was a lock to be tendered, but heavily implied that being the case.
Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.
by TwinsTarget on Nov 6, 2009 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2010 ZIPS
2010 ZiPS Projections
-———————————————————————————————————————
Player AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB BA OBP SLG OPS+ DR
-———————————————————————————————————————
Hardy 480 72 124 22 2 17 68 39 84 1 .258 .314 .419 94 9
Gomez 396 63 99 19 5 6 41 28 91 23 .250 .308 .369 79 10
-———————————————————————————————————————
by DJL44 on Nov 6, 2009 3:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
could you make that
a little more clear?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hardy is projected to get 480 ABs with an OPS+ of 94
Gomez i projected to get 396 ABs with an OPS+ of 79
by ckb on Nov 6, 2009 5:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
SLG + defense...
…makes this worth it.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 3:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Outfield defense
Just a point, but we do have Pridie who will likely be the fourth OFer. Pridie is a better bat option than Gomez (though maybe not by much) and a decent glove. Given that Gomez’s role was defensive sub anyway, I think this is good. The defensive drop off won’t be much considering Gomez didn’t play that much (nor should he have). I think this is good.
I also think that this will be better for the offense. Hardy had a miserable BABIP, which shows he wasn’t lucky. I’m not sure I’d put him in the 2 spot (I’d put Mauer there), but he’s a very nice option further down. Now go resign Crede, trade for Uggla, get a bench bat, adn extend Mauer… I’m liking it.
by diehardtwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 3:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
we have had
this discussion before (although maybe not with you). Pridie is not a better bat than Gomez…he is worse. Look at Pridie’s numbers in AAA – I am certain that Gomez could have hit better than Pridie has at AAA. There is a reason why Pridie did not get a september call up.
Furthermore, Mauer is #3 in the order and that will never change. Uggla is going to cost a lot both in salary and prospects and while it may be nice to have him, what is the reality? We can re-sign Crede and I support this move. Getting Uggla and extending Mauer in the same season will be the difficult part.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This may be a dumb question (it is), but I'm not sure how this works.
Hardy is #7 in Milwaukee. Clearly, he’s not going to be that number here. Does he take Gomez’s number? Or an entirely new one? Just wondering how that works…
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 4:12 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure
that he gets to pick from what is available.
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 4:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm, ok. Thanks.
Never has that issue really crossed my mind until this year (Favre with his #4, now Hardy).
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah sorta depends on name power
In Favre’s case we have to try to make him happy by forcing Booty out of 4. I don’t think Hardy quite merits the stealing of number 7, though. So he has to go through the leftovers. If he were on the Vikes, I’d be all for giving him number 7. hehe
by archie2227 on Nov 6, 2009 4:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha, so sorry T-Jack. :\
And no, I can’t imagine Hardy has the clout to take Baby Jesus’ number. That’s just wrong to even contemplate.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
that Hardy’s number when he first came up was 27. He may revert back to that…and plus, it was Morneau’s first number/last number.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 7, 2009 12:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Usual procedure
Sometimes, a veteran whose number is taken on a new team will buy the number from a younger player who has it. Mauer outranks Hardy, I’m sure, so I’d assume J.J.’s getting a new number.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Nov 6, 2009 5:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
He can go the Ray Borque route
When he got to Boston, he wanted to keep #7, but it was retired for some guy named Esposito :) already , so he wore #77.
by Ski U Mah Gopher on Nov 6, 2009 5:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same thing
as Ski-U-Mah.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 6, 2009 7:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
David Weathers
was made available today by the Brewers. He had a fairly bad year this last year (as did the whole Brewcrew) but we have talked about the possibility of him in a Twins uniform before. Would that still be an option?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 6, 2009 4:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Brewer's fans don't seem to sorry to see JJ go
From the comments I read on Big League Stew and Brew Crew Ball. They don’t seem too thrilled about getting GoGo, but pretty happy to get rid of JJ. JJ got sent down to the minors for a while last August.
I’m just not that excited about this trade, but at least we have a 2B now.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2009 4:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
SS
A shortstop better than any other available on the FA market this year.
by Mike I on Nov 6, 2009 4:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, thank you
I meant SS
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2009 5:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Judging by his picture, Hardy is as surprised by this trade as we are
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 6, 2009 4:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Either that
or he was riding in the car with Tim Lincecum.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Always so topical.
And funny. Let’s be honest though, who didn’t think Lincecum was getting high all the time? He has hippie hair for god’s sake.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Shocked!
I was shocked to see he’s a pot smoking hippie. I thought the permanent smile was because he was so happy growing his hair out for Locks of Love.
"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 6, 2009 5:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I went to UW the same time as Lincecum
It was pretty common knowledge.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 7:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmm...yeah, somehow this comes as pretty unsurprising news.
Especially considering his affinity for the beanie in any and all situations.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 7:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
But
That’s how he gets all his K’s. He can feel the strike zone, man.
Like Trey Anastachio says, dude, “Set the gearshift for the high gear of your soul. You’ve got to run like an antelope out of control.”
/gross hippiness
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I never would have pegged the tie-wearing drunk guy for a hippie.
Learn something new every day, I guess. :)
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 7:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lincecum was far from the only one on campus.
I was surrounded by them for 5 years. I once heard a guy yelling through the halls that he wanted to melt down his String Cheese Incident cd’s and shoot them in his veins.
They’re not too bad if you can get past the smell of patchouli oil and greasy hair.
Also, I totally had to google those lyrics.
by matty_b on Nov 6, 2009 7:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure. 'Google'.
And to be honest, it’s the greasy hair. Showers aren’t a bad thing.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone else think he looks like Mac from It's Always Sunny?
I hope he doesn’t have a creepy fascination about Chase Utley
by lookatthosetwins on Nov 6, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Brewers fan here
I think you guys got a great deal. I have a sneaking suspicion Hardy will return pretty close to form this year (BABIP has a lot to do with that), and even if he doesn’t, you’re getting plus defense anyway.
A couple notes on J.J.: He’s been the streakiest hitter in the Brewers’ lineup over the past two years. Obviously, it was much more down than up in ’09, but when he gets hot, he can carry the team on his back. He did it for a week or two just before the ’08 All-Star break.
Also, he’s slower than you think he is. Way slower. Like, he will continually amaze you with his epic slowness.
Good luck with him in 2010, though. You’re getting a good guy.
by Cheeseandcorn on Nov 6, 2009 5:31 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
probably not,
Like, he will continually amaze you with his epic slowness
It wasn’t so long ago that a certain rotundian gentleman named Matt LeCroy was a regular for this team.
by montanatwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 5:44 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
wow he's skinny in that picture.
by montanatwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 5:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Everything except his face
I suspect he had a pretty fat face his whole life. He was probably a 10 pound baby and nine pounds of it was in his face.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 6:21 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Man, I miss him.
I hear he’s doing really good as a minor league coach, though.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Nov 6, 2009 7:06 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
2 things
1. doesn’t this pretty much make it so we had nothing to show for the Santana trade…
2. Crowded outfield turns into (more) crowded infield…
by JMP on Nov 6, 2009 6:00 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, for Santana, we now have...
Rauch and Hardy. And Guerro. And I think Humber’s gone. So…yeah.
And I’m going to guess that Casilla/Tolbert/Harris won’t all be here next year.
by fischean on Nov 6, 2009 6:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trades aren't judged by the players you get at first
but by the players you end up with. Hardy, Rauch and Guerra is better than some of the rumored Boston offers (e.g. Lowrie, Masterson and Kahlish).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 6:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
maybe you should have said "shouldn't" rather than "aren't" because they "are" all the time.
by montanatwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 6:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
k
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Nov 6, 2009 7:33 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
40 Man Roster
Maybe it’s a wash, because Pridie will probably be kept around, but acquiring Hardy for Gomez = O-Cab’s spot is officially open.
by Han Joelo on Nov 6, 2009 8:40 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Another Brewer fan here
Personally, I’m not too excited about this trade, but I’ll admit, I don’t know much about Gomez. I’ve heard the “lots of potential” line and also that he’s a “stupid” player. Can I get an analysis of Gomez from the perspective of a Twins fan?
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Nov 6, 2009 8:50 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
He's fast as hell
He can run down anything in the field. He is also much larger than he seems. He’s built like Usain Bolt.
But he is easily overmatched at the plate. He has no patience and takes big hacks when he swings. His lack of power isn’t from his physical abilities but because he never makes good contact. If he could ever develop patience he would be a great overall player but I wouldn’t hold out that hope.
by ckb on Nov 6, 2009 9:24 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
"stupid' well, that's a little harsh, but...
won’t stop swing for the fences despite the ability to beat out a lot of ground balls.
fast as hell but can’t steal a base
by montanatwinsfan on Nov 6, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would say raw rather than stupid
I think that Gomez has a lot of potential, but he hasn’t had a lot of opportunity to develop it. Can hit for power, but swings for the fences too often. Strikes out more than he probably should and has some embarrassing at bats.
However, despite Gomez’s lack of production at the plate, he is excellent defensively. Even if he doesn’t give you value with his bat, he will with his glove. That, to me, is the true value of Gomez – he will give you great D, and has at least the potential to develop good offense to go with it.
When looking at his 2009 numbers, keep in mind that he was used as a defensive replacement most of the season. If you give him more playing time than we did, he should develop into a better player than he was for us.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Nov 6, 2009 10:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The other assessments here are pretty good...
Shows flashes of brilliance, but they never last. Best defensive CF in the game right now. Unbelievable speed. If you can get him to lay down a decent bunt consistently, you’ll really will have something…
One thing I would add is that he has really been jerked around here. He should have spent his first year here in the minors, but management wanted to show what they got for Johan Santana. He eventually played himself out of a job. Spent all year last year as a late inning replacement. Not sure how anyone expected him to progress in that role.
You just got either the next Jose Reyes or the next Joey Gathright. We honestly don’t know what he’ll do with a consistent opportunity.
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Nov 6, 2009 11:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone says what great D he has
But, aside from running down fly balls, his arm is erratic at best. That to me is a huge limitation in his defense. He’s got a good arm but who can remember a single important throw he made?
He hops, hops, hops and everyone oohs and ahhs, but in the end, with the runner going on him, the odds of him actually making a great throw are very low.
by Old Twins Cap on Nov 6, 2009 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Completely agree...
My “Best Defensive CF” comment was based solely on his range.
You are totally correct about his arm…it’s strong, but it takes him a year to unload. And even then it’s extremely innacurate…
"I'm gonna make you cry...I'm gonna make you cry and dip my cookie in your tears!!!"
by mutleyil on Nov 6, 2009 11:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
These descriptions remind me a lot of Rickie Weeks
Good range but inaccurate arm. Speedy. Offensive struggles partially the result of inconsistent playing time. Should have spent more time in the minors. Most of all he “shows flashes of brilliance.”
Thanks for the info everyone.
"A D+ Grade? That must have been a Wittardo grade"- @73_MC
by BrewHaHeather on Nov 6, 2009 11:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Did we mention the fun factor?
He’s very entertaining no matter what he does. 1000% enthusiasm, but you don’t get the sense that he’s a real…learner. Interesting relationship with his bats. Fastest home-run trots you’ll ever see (not that you’ll see them very often). Some great interviews.
If he’s a success in Milwaukee, people will LOVE him. If not, people will still love him, but just not mind if he’s traded away for someone like, say, JJ Hardy.
by Mauer4evauer on Nov 7, 2009 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Good way to put it
Sometimes you think he’s listening more to the bats than to the coaches….
by DJL44 on Nov 7, 2009 8:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Supposed defensive hit - not an issue
I understand the concern that the Twins outfield could be a lot worse defensively next year. But the truth is good field no hit outfielders are a dime a dozen. If they really wanted a defense only outfield they could replace Gomez with any number of people, including Jason Pridie. But they don’t want a no-hit outfield, nor should they.
The fact that Young isn’t good doesn’t have anything to do with Gomez. He is neither the cause nor the cure for our problems in left field. But as a center fielder, he is highly expendable. If he ever did learn to hit he’d have to get in line behind Revere, Hicks, and Morales. Would you trade any of those three for Gomez? I wouldn’t. They’re not ready yet but neither is he. And in the meantime you don’t drop down much with Pridie or Benson. If any of them pan out, Span moves back to the corner anyway.
by by jiminy on Nov 7, 2009 7:42 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Defense
It’s a whole new outfield game in 2010. Outdoors. Cold and rian in beginning and end. Dealing with the sun. New lights. The Twins outfielders will be virgins out there in the early days like every other team.
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
by rosterman on Nov 7, 2009 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Average D
The numbers used to measure defensive prowess cannot be accurately used when talking about JJ Hardy. He is a very solid shortstop, but do not be fooled, he is not elite. His range is downright awful. He has a solid glove and a very good arm, but if he is not in the exact perfect defensive position, he is worthless.
The Brewers should have traded Hardy during last years offseason, if they had, they could have sold high and gotten as much as a #2 starting pitcher.
His year last year was very poor offensively, but he was overachieving during 07 and 08. Hes not that good with the bat. But you give him his solid/average D at a premium position, and he hits what he is capapble of…..270/.330/.400 and youve got yourself a 2 or 3 win player. Its a nice move for the Twins and its also a good move for the Brewers. Hopefully, Gomez is the every day starting CF for them, and they let him run all day and bunt as often as he wants.
by backtocali on Nov 7, 2009 8:29 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
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