Twinkie Town: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Around SBN: Baby Boilers no more: Michigan State-Purdue Preview

How Good Is J.J. Hardy's Defense?

Milwaukee Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy leaps over Los Angeles Dodgers' James Loney to turn a double play on a ball hit by Russell Martin during the sixth inning of a baseball game Saturday, July 11, 2009, in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Morry Gash)

More photos » Morry Gash - AP

7 months ago: Milwaukee Brewers shortstop J.J. Hardy leaps over Los Angeles Dodgers' James Loney to turn a double play on a ball hit by Russell Martin during the sixth inning of a baseball game Saturday, July 11, 2009, in Milwaukee. (AP Photo/Morry Gash)

The biggest question mark in J.J. Hardy's game, oddly enough, isn't whether or not he can bounce back offensively.  It's whether or not his defensive reputation is deserved.

It's likely that Hardy's bat will rebound to some extent in 2010, and it's that upside that makes his pick-up as intriguing as it is.  But the constant, the "guaranteed" value, was in the premium defense he supposedly provides at a premium defensive position.  Hardy has been one of the league's best shortstops over the last few years.  If you believe the numbers.

FanGraphs has been running a series recently about the best and worst defenders in baseball over the last three years combined.  As Matthew Carruth states:  "Rankings are done by adding a player's UZR with his aggregate positional adjustment so as to level the playing field with regards to difficulty. Essentially, it's removing the grading curve".  Or, all things equalized, Carruth gives us the best and the worst.  Hardy finished third overall, as the highest-rated shortstop, and is calculated to have been worth 48.7 runs above average with the glove.

For the record, that is stellar.

But since the announcement of this deal on Friday we've started to hear strains of dissenting thought, largely from Brewers fans who have stopped by to deliver their first-hand impressions of Hardy in the field.

From Cheeseandcorn:

Also, he’s slower than you think he is. Way slower. Like, he will continually amaze you with his epic slowness.

This from backtocali:

The numbers used to measure defensive prowess cannot be accurately used when talking about JJ Hardy. He is a very solid shortstop, but do not be fooled, he is not elite. His range is downright awful. He has a solid glove and a very good arm, but if he is not in the exact perfect defensive position, he is worthless.

Another, this time from Ted Simmons Speed Camp:

Hardy IS extremely slow.  I never thought his range at SS was all that great, but he maximizes it with good positioning, a soft glove and a great arm.

Push all three of these comments together and we get a fairly comprehensive idea of what Brewers fans saw when they watched Hardy field his position:  good glove, good arm, bad range, slow.  Two up, two down.

I do find those statements interesting because I do place value on intelligent observations, which these were.  But when I evaluate a player in any capacity, I do have a tendency to lean towards what the numbers tell me.  Not because I don't believe my eyes, or anyone else's, but because numbers aren't subjective and make visual impressions quantifiable.  Ultimately, whether you believe what the defensive metrics tell you about any player or not, the numbers come from somewhere.  Which means there's probably a very legitimate reason why Hardy has been tabbed as one of the best shortstops, and best defensive players in general, over the last few years.

Let's skim past UZR/150 for a moment and go to the numbers that strictly talk about range, since that's the specific part of Hardy's defense in question.  Using numbers from THT, we'll include Hardy with some of the other great defensive shortstops in baseball (and Derek Jeter because, really, why not) to see if the observations of those Brewers fans match up with cold, hard, objective numbers.

Name Innings RZR OOZ INN:OZ
Cesar Izturis 2590 .852 122 21.2
Adam Everett 1841 .851 87 21.2
Jose Reyes 3156 .849 110 23.9
Elvis Andrus 1238 .846 45 27.5
Yunel Escobar 2676 .841 124 21.6
Alex Gonzalez 1820 .839 63 28.9
Ryan Theriot 3436 .834 111 31.0
Brendan Ryan 1248 .833 77 16.2
Nick Punto 1231 .831 47 26.2
J.J. Hardy 3488 .826 166 21.0
Jack Wilson 2754 .826 163 16.8
Derek Jeter 3836 .819 89 43.1
Jimmy Rollins 3973 .818 166 23.9
Rafael Furcal 2788 .817 130 21.5
Jason Bartlett 3444 .798 175 19.7


INN = Innings played at shortstop 2007 - 2009
RZR = Percentage of balls-in-zone that were converted into outs; average is about .790 - .810
OOZ = Plays made outside of a shortstop's defensive zone
INN:OZ = An average of how often a play is made outside of the shortstop's zone

A full time shortstop plays somewhere between 1250 and 1400 innings at his position per season; Ryan was a rookie in 2009 but has the same number of innings as Punto, whose totals represent three years combined.

According to the above breakdown, which is about as objective as defensive range metrics can get, Hardy's range is fine.  In fact it's better than that, it's above average...consistently.  You could chalk that up to (like the above commenters mentioned) great positioning, but a guy who makes plays on positioning alone isn't going to make 166 plays outside of his defensive zone, either.  Jeter is the model of this theory--he's the guy who's reliable for making plays on most of the balls he touches, but he does it by playing deep.  It robs him of the ability to make plays on balls he shouldn't be making plays on, unless he's chasing it into the shallow outfield.

Bartlett, on the other hand, is the guy on the other side of the curve.  His superior range allows him to make plays like few other shortstops in baseball, but he's prone to mistakes more often than some of the other guys on this list.  Certainly some of it can be chalked up to bad positioning, but we know there's a little more to it than that.

Looking at older range metrics, like RF/G or RF/9, Hardy comes in around the middle of the pack.  Indeed, scrolling through a list of defensive metrics, the worst you will see Hardy ever being is middle of the pack.

Conclusions

So, where does this leave us?  We can't ignore the defensive metrics, because all players are graded equally.  By the same token we can't just dismiss first-hand accounts...especially since, like most of you, I really haven't had the opportunity to see Hardy play on a day-to-day basis.

The obvious and most probable outcome is that both groups are right.  Hardy's speed likely inhibits his range in the field, which is partially made up for by great positioning and an ability to consistently and reliably make outs in situations where he's expected to make them.  Is his positioning so great that it allows him to challenge for the most plays made outside his zone every year?  Probably not, which implies that it's more than just positioning that allows him to excel and get to that sick number of balls he has no business getting to.

I expect that when we finally get to see Hardy play everyday next summer, we will be a little surprised at how he moves.  But that's where the numbers come in.  He's obviously making a ton of plays, more than a vast majority of shortstops in baseball, and he's earned his reputation (on paper and on grass) as one of the best defensive infielders in the game today.

Any questions we might have will (obviously) get answers once we actually watch him play.  Until then I'm content knowing that we did get a very good defensive shortstop in return for Carlos Gomez.

Ultimately it doesn't matter how you get the out as long as you get it.  It's just like picking up the win--just get it.  And that's something J.J. Hardy is apparently very, very good at.  Both sides agree on that.

0 recs  |  Comment 30 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

More from Twinkie Town

Twins Sign Orlando Hudson!

Feb 2010 by Jesse - 265 comments

Comments

Display:

Only time will really tell how Hardy will work out for us...

but I think right now, it looks like a good trade. We desperately needed an infield upgrade.

Also, he’s slower than you think he is. Way slower. Like, he will continually amaze you with his epic slowness.

This actually made me laugh pretty hard when I read it. It will be interesting to see how he plays next year. I read that he’s really excited to be playing with Mauer again. Hopefully that’s an added incentive for Joe to re-sign and Hardy to play better. Let me dream.

by fischean on Nov 8, 2009 10:35 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I read those comments and thought "bitter fan looks for any reason to hate former Brewer"

If you look at all the comments from Packer fans on Favre, you would think he was a bum when he wore green and gold.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 8, 2009 10:41 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

If Brewers’ fans are as delusional as Packers’ fans (and why wouldn’t they be when they are often the same people?), the truth is probably pretty much the opposite of what they want us to believe.

by Sheldon on Nov 9, 2009 7:05 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ugh...

Fans are fans…please don’t bring delusion into the case when its coming from Minnesota fans. I live in MN, cheer for the Twins but if anyone has written a book on delusion is fans in MN.

by TrevorR on Nov 10, 2009 2:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What the hell do you mean by that?
…but if anyone has written a book on delusion is fans in MN.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 10, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh. Nevermind, Packer fan.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 10, 2009 4:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Favre thing is completely different

It’s not like the Brewers were going to retire JJ’s number or regarded him as an icon the way Brett was, and there is not a rivalry between the Brewers and the Twins like the Vikings/Packers one.
The comments on Brew Crew Ball don’t seem terribly bitter, and a poll about the trade looks like most folks over there think the Twins got the better deal.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 9, 2009 7:56 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just in case REVENGE4FAVRE reads this

The Packers can only blame themselves for Favre being the Vikings’ QB now. SKOL!

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 9, 2009 8:00 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

This really was a great read...

thanks for that!

I actually work for Nashville and got to see Hardy day in day out for a time this year, and I liked what I saw. I think a change of scenery was needed, and I’m so damn happy that we got him!

Also, for what it’s worth, Alcides Escobar is the real deal. I think he’ll be this generation’s Ozzie Smith defensively. Except he figures to hit a whole lot better than Ozzie ever did. This was a good move for both teams.

by DJSkillz on Nov 8, 2009 10:52 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Base stealing speed and good range

Often a player can have good range while not being a burner on the basepaths. Several of the SSs listed in the analysis wouldn’t be considered “fast”, but they cover ground well when on defense (JWilson, Everett, Hardy, Gonzales). Going back a lot of years, Mark Belanger and Cal Ripken were not fast, but they won a bunch of gold gloves.

by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Nov 8, 2009 10:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Extend him please?

I would just really like the Twins to work out some kind of long term contract with him. 3 year contract for 16-18 million with an option year or two at 10 million each. If he finds a way to hit anywhere near what he did in 07-08 this year his salary will skyrocket his last year of arbitration and he’ll be damn near unsignable if he does it the next two years. Sign him while he’s down rather than do what the Twins did with Santana, Hunter, and now Mauer (wait til they peak to sign an extension).

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Nov 9, 2009 12:50 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Smith has indicated that he will

But not until he proves that he can return to form. I look for a good year from him followed by a long-term contract that buys out his last year of arbitration and keeps him with the Twins through 2014 or so.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 9, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think any of those comments about Hardy were delusional.

And I really, really don’t want to start a useless flamewar with Brewers fans, because there’s no need for it. I think they were honest opinions. Possibly not 100% accurate, but I’m willing to give their merits the benefit of a doubt (at least a little), because they’ve actually seen him play regularly.

Ultimately I don’t think they were right, because the numbers are telling a totally different story, but that doesn’t mean they’re delusional. They’re just opinions, and none of the three I named above came off as bitter or snide about Hardy.

by Jesse on Nov 9, 2009 7:37 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Slowness

When people write stuff like this:

epic slowness
worthless
IS extremely slow

and it’s in direct conflict with the numbers, I can’t help but think there’s a lot of negative emotion behind it. When someone is that given to hyperbole, it usually means there’s more than just cool observation involved.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 9, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Some people

“look slow” because of their style and are actually quite fast.

by wcooley on Nov 9, 2009 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they were just burned by his poor year and what could have been. Now he’s moved on and they are done with him.

by TrevorR on Nov 10, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Positioning........

Helps a lot, and I think the Twins coaching staff does do its homework.

Not sure how things will change now that the team is outdoors instead of in the confines of a windless, sunless dome, but we’ll see.

Imagine Crede on one side and Punto on the other, with Hardy throwing to Morneau. Sounds a-ok to me.

It will be a different team.

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 9, 2009 10:41 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

6' 2" is a tall tree

How much of getting to a ball is speed and how much of it is reach?

Even if he just extends down, he’s got length like few others. A lot of it at shortstop is then quickly getting your feet turned, ball transfer and a cannon shot to first.

So, there’s speed and then there’s this kind of agility, which is quickness, muscularity and explosiveness combined. We’ll know quality defense when we see it.

by Old Twins Cap on Nov 9, 2009 12:43 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I guess when I was referring to Hardy's lack of speed

I really wasn’t thinking of his defense. He has some pretty good defensive range, and as Old Twins Cap said, that seems to be more of a function of quickness and reaction time than speed, per se.

I was talking more about speed on the basepaths, where J.J. always looks like he’d be pretty fast, but then is excruciatingly slow. It was kind of an ongoing joke in the Brew Crew Ball game threads.

And as for the bitterness aspect, if you read the rest of my post, you’ll find I’m really not bitter at all toward Hardy — I think he’s a great player, a great guy, and I actually hope he bounces back nicely for Twins. I can only speak for myself, but emotions, really had nothing to do with my statement.

And backtocali isn’t a Brewer fan anyway, though he does seem to post in a perpetual state of bitterness. He’s getting better about that, though. :)

by Cheeseandcorn on Nov 9, 2009 12:53 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Hardy is as good as his numbers

Brewers fans gave up on him when he was sent down to AAA. Yes, he’s a streaky hitter but fans forget he was the only one on the team that produced during the playoffs in 2008. His defense has never faltered. He’s not quick on the bases but he has amazing range in the field.

by echardyfan on Nov 9, 2009 1:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Been said already but,

speed is not the most important commodity for a shortstop; reaction time and quickness are more important than speed.

With speed you can get a bad read and take a bad route and still run under the ball if you are a CF (say a certain CF for the Brewers). But SS is like a keeper in soccer. Speed doesn’t hurt for these defensive positions, but it isn’t nearly as important as quick reaction times and an ability to take a very quick short burst left or right for a ball. Add to that soft hands and intelligence in positioning and you have a good keeper or a good defensive SS. Speed is about last on the list.

by montanatwinsfan on Nov 10, 2009 9:20 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Anyone, anyone.......

has to be better than what we’ve thrown out there of late.

Everett, Punto, Harris, Cabera, Jeter, Tolbert…if Hardy isn’t the second-coming of better-than-league average, then I say beware that Toby Gardenhire is in the wings!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Nov 10, 2009 2:36 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ack!

Don’t do that.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Nov 10, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Jeter?

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Nov 10, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

ya he was between

Castro and Bartlett remember? Then we sent his a$$ to NY for a player to be named later. lol

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett

by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 11, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

oh

and we never found out who the player to be named later was…he is probably in the TC suit!

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett

by 33MorneauMVP on Nov 11, 2009 1:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

TT is an SB Nation blog of, by and for the fans. We strive to be the best Minnesota Twins blog by providing quality content and analysis, as well as daily news and notes on the team. We hope you'll make Twinkie Town your home for all things Twins!
Start posting about the Twins »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Win_twins_small
My 2010 Predictions
Win_twins_small
Pridie & Jones
Tales-of-the-black-freighter-800-75_small
Five Key Questions heading into 2010
Small
Seth's Minor League Draft
Minnesota-twins_dw__177345g_small
Is this the slowest Twins team in recent memory?
Small
OF defense
File
2010 MLB PREDICTIONS
002_small
My Line Up Thoughts and Expectations for 2010 (and Nicknames)
39135485-59af19dbb26654095f910f34176af094_4ae8a81e-scaled_small
Predictions Group
Small
Minor League Report...February 6, 2010

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Twinkie Town On Twitter

SPONSORS


Editor-In-Chief

Twinkietown_small Jesse

Senior Writer

Hrbek_small Jon Marthaler

The_jet_small cmathewson

Gladdentwins_small Adam Peterson

Hosken_powell_autograph_small RandBall's Stu