Type A's, Arbitration, etc.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 2, 2009 2:22 AM EST
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PrintHello, I thought I'd give a quick review of what the recent arbitration announcements mean to our offseason. This will be nothing new to most of you, but thought it would be helpful for some.
1) Pavano being offered arbitration. He will most likely decline and look for a multiyear deal. If he signs elsewhere, we get a sandwich pick (picked between the first and second rounds).
2) Orlando Hudson and Placido Polanco NOT being offered arbitration. These were the two Type A's that were on the Twins radar. Because they weren't offered arbitration, they will not cost a draft pick. They may still price out of the Twins range, but it at least widens the pool of free agents the Twins could sign.
As far as free agent infielders and starting pitchers go, the ONLY ones that would cost a draft pick to sign are Chone Figgins, Marco Scutaro, and John Lackey. These aren't guys we were expecting to pursue anyway, so draft picks shouldn't get in the way of any negotiations this year.
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Jason Marquis
was also not offered arbitration. Not a bad pitcher to have in our rotation!!!
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Marquis WAS offered arbitration.
It doesn’t matter though, because he’s type B, not type A. He will not cost a draft pick. Either was I don’t see him being a big enough upgrade to sign. Marquis is much more valuable in the NL than AL because of his bat, and is in the Jarrod Washburn category when based on pure pitching.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 2, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Type b's give the team losing the player a sandwich pick
They cost the signing team nothing.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 2, 2009 9:42 PM EST up reply actions
nope, type B's just give compensation to the team that lost that specific players' services
a sandwich draft pick (in between the 1st and 2nd rounds)
it costs the team that signed the Type B player nothing.
Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 2, 2009 10:22 PM EST up reply actions
The Twins seem to be one of the few clubs that offer arbitration as a matter of course
I can’t recall a Type A or B free agent they failed to offer arbitration. But not many other teams are risking arbitration this year. That’s a far cry from 2007, when the sandwich round was almost as long as the first round.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Polanco vs. Hudson
So who’s the better option? I don’t have any insight into this I’m just looking for people’s opinion. I guess I’d prefer Hudson based mostly on age. They have very similar career batting lines although recently Hudson has had a better overall OBP but Polanco is the better defender according to UZR/150 (Polanco;11 vs. Hudson;-3.7).
I’d love to see the Twins bring one of these two guys in to solidify the 2 hole both offensively and defensively.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I would prefer Polanco to hudson for the same money
He’s a better defender, and Hudsons stats should decline a bit moving to the AL. He’s only 2 years older, and hasn’t shown any signs of slowing down at this point.
Polanco did have a down year last year, but it was 100% of a depressed BABIP. His 2009 looks like the epitome of a bad luck season, and should bounce back. He’s probably not a +11 defender anymore, but I’d expect him to be in the 3 WAR range (worth about 12 mil per season) and Hudson in the 2 WAR range in the AL (worth about 9 mil per season).
Besides that, its possible that Polanco would be cheaper. Really the only thing I like better about Hudson is his head shape.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 2, 2009 8:11 PM EST up reply actions
+1
I’d prefer Polanco as well. Defense, probability of bouncing back, likely lower cost.
Plus an enormous Sputnik-sized noggin!
by Adam Peterson on Dec 2, 2009 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
I would also prefer Polanco
He’s a head above the rest
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 2, 2009 10:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It can be seen from space!
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
He'll cry himself to sleep tonight
… on his HUGE pillow.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
I'd rather have Hudson, if money were no object
But I think Polanco will provide the better value for the money. The Twins should contact both. If Hudson accepts a deal like he did with the Dodgers last year, he’s a steal. I don’t expect that, though. With all the available 2B guys, time is on the Twins’ side here.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I agree
what was Hudson’s contract worth last year with the Dodgers? $4.5 million base salary with incentives up to $8 million? I would offer O-Hud $9 million base with incentives earning up to $12 million with a $12.5 million option for 2011. I expect the same sort of salary for Polanco minus the incentives, since he does not really have an injury history.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
I don't
2B never make much money, despite what WAR calculators would have you believe. Polanco has never earned more than $4.6M in a season. Orlando Hudson topped out at $6M. The top earners among 2B in the league are getting $10M-$12M. Why would you pay top dollar to a declining player? Of course this is just another reason why Punto at $4M was ridiculous.
Reason number 286 why Punto's contract was ridiculous
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
so
O-Hud with a $6 million base plus incentives and option? Polanco with a 2 year, 5 million salary with option for 2012? And Lopez with a 2 year, $4 million a year with a third year option?
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
that seems a lot better
I think the other thing is that there are a lot of solid 2B available this year and thus the prices should be down a bit. I think the Twins really should be able to get a good deal on one of the 3 mentioned above.
The two surpluses of the market this year seem to be 2B and high risk high reward pitchers. The Twins really should try to get one of each to make this team a top contender.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
You mean 5 mill per season for Polanco?
that would be a steal. I’d be extatic with that. I may be in the minority, but I’d expect him to be a better player overall than Hudson, especially in the AL.
by lookatthosetwins on Dec 2, 2009 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Phillies want Polanco
Rumored at 2 years $12M. No reason to go over that, there’s lots of options.
Buscher signed with the Indians – I doubt this is Casey Blake redux.
Rumors of the Orioles and Astros having interest in Crede…
No type A free agents offered arb that the Twins would have interest in. Beltre was offered but he’s a type B. There’s no worry about losing draft picks for any of the 2B/3B options.
Talk, talk, talk...
Agent talk regarding Polanco. Get the offers coming. But, there’s otehr fish in this sea, folks.
Plus, rumors of lots of 2nd basemen maybe switching positions?
Seriously, why would the Orioles or Astros invest big $$$ in Crede. If he breaks down, theya re really sunk. Will he make them a contender?
Buscher, yes…the next Casey Blake. $40 million contract in his future?
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
agreed on Polanco
Doesn’t make sense. Why would he want to switch positions when he can probably get the same deal and stay at 2B?
Polanco and Phills
“close” to deal.
Philles already have Chase Utley at 2B. Has Polanco ever played 3B in his Major league career? I would think Polanco would want to stay at his position. Ah well, lets wait and see.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
almost
official. Polanco and Phills will agree to a three year deal worth $18 million with a mutual option for 2013 sometime today.
Twins better go for Hudson or Lopez at this point as it appears that Polanco came and went.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
Hear Hear.....
If this is true, it scores #1 in three ways for the player….
Decent money for a 2b-man, $6 million a year, even though he’ll be playing third, I guess. Man…just think, the Phils could’ve paid Feliz $5 million.
He gets a THREE year contract, not two.
He’s playing for a winner!
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
Good chance to end up in the World Series...
fill a real hole in the Phillies lineup, go back to the NL, used to be a Phillie. Who knows, I think he was a 3B before he moved to 2B. For all I know he prefers to play 3B.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 4, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Polanco
is already off the table….
The Twins really missed their opportunity here. As soon as the Tigers did not offer arbitration to Polanco, the Twins should have called Polanco and immediately offered a contract.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
http://bases.nbcsports.com/2009/12/phillies-placido-polanco-agree-to-three-year-deal.html.php
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
I'm not as concerned
as this actually helps us with 3B. Philadephia was the team the the most glaring need for a 3B. Now Beltre and Figgins both remain on the market and I suspect one or both will bo for below market value.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 4, 2009 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Figgins to Mariners
Beltre to Red Sox
We have Valencia waiting so I could put up with a Tolbert/Punto platoon as long as we sign O-Hud or Felipe Lopez and Ben Sheets.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
I'd rather have a 2B
Mainly because then we stick Punto at 3B and have Valencia waiting to take over when he inevitably does awful. Where as 2B and SS there’s not much but Punto Jr to take his spot over.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
True
but with Punto’s arm nowadays, I’d rather he play at second. Not great options either way, but better than if we fail to get either a 2B or 3B this offseason.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 5, 2009 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
Hughes,Macri,Harris,Valencia,
If we don’t get a 3b pick-up in the off season any of these 4 will do. I’ll say get Tiffee back before we let weak hitters like Punto and Tolbert play 3b. Punto and Tolbert have their place up the middle not 3b. Macri did well the short time he was on the Roster. WE NEED SOME STICKS not gloves.
I could live with the in house options
but only if we upgrade 2B. I have a sinking feeling that we’ll go into 2010 with Valencia – Punto, possibly no more of an “upgrade” (really 2009 baseline) than an incentive laden Crede contract to play third.
Improve one or the other, make the entire infield and bench better.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 6, 2009 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
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