Twinkie Town Top 50...Voting for Number 2

by roger13 on Dec 4, 2009 4:20 PM EST Comment 37 comments

Congratulations to recent Twins signee Miguel Jean (fka Miguel Angel Sano). Jean surged into the lead the last three hours of the balloting as he received nearly 60 votes since noon today. Jean finished the balloting with 102 votes of the 383 that were cast, or nearly 25%. Finishing second was catcher, Wilson Ramos, who had 83 votes. Young Mr. Jean now has a USA work visa, $3,150,000 check and the Top Ranking in the Twinkie Town 2010 Prospect List (Considering that last year's voting was for the 2009 Prospect List, will rename this year 2010).

Two players tallied significantly less than 5% and will be removed from the ballot for Prospect #2, David Bromberg and Angel Morales. Ben Revere just missed 5% and rounds up to that so he will remain on the ballot. Seth and I selected the following three players to be added to the ballot for Prospect #2: Alex Burnett, Adrian Salcedo and Rene Tosoni.

Please include in the comments section what players you would like us to consider for future ballots and your best case why they should be considered.

Poll

Who is the Number Two prospect in the Twins system?

Alex Burnett

45 votes

Kyle Gibson

97 votes

Aaron Hicks

159 votes

Wilson Ramos

113 votes

Ben Revere

50 votes

Adrian Salcedo

15 votes

Rene Tosoni

11 votes

Danny Valencia

53 votes

543 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 37 comments |

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Comments

The poll will continue over the weekend...

…With the voting for Player Number 3 commencing at 3pm Saturday, and Player Number 4 at 3pm on Sunday.

by roger13 on Dec 4, 2009 4:23 PM EST reply actions

Miguel Jean

wow that was really quite the surge. I really hope he does live up to all his praise!! For #2 I will go with Wilson Ramos.

"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett

by BCTwins on Dec 4, 2009 4:24 PM EST reply actions

Are we sure that last vote was on the up and up?

Something seems off about that.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 4, 2009 4:43 PM EST reply actions

I have emailed Jesse...

…however, I don’t believe it is possible for someone to vote more than once. I won’t speculate further…but it sure seemed to be curious.

by roger13 on Dec 4, 2009 4:47 PM EST up reply actions

no kidding

I can’t believe Jean won!!!!

unbelievable – as Max said earlier Jean must have gotten 60 votes in a little over 2 hours time!

I smell trolling!!!

Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 4, 2009 9:48 PM EST up reply actions

And Eric...

…if we find out it is not, we will start all over again. We have all winter to do this and we will get it right!

by roger13 on Dec 4, 2009 4:48 PM EST up reply actions

Sure

It isn't keeping me up at night. It just seemed odd. I still think Hicks is the best guy.

by Eric in Madison on Dec 4, 2009 5:21 PM EST up reply actions

It probably got

spotted by a non-member that is a big Jean fan. Who, then decided to get all his/her internet buddies to come vote. I don’t think you have to be a member to vote in polls. Easy to sway a result when you only need 50 or so votes to do it.

by archie2227 on Dec 5, 2009 1:23 PM EST up reply actions

Still Hicks

But it would be fun if Jean lives up to his billing.

by Gunnarthor on Dec 4, 2009 4:48 PM EST reply actions

My quick view on Ramos

No, I don’t think he is the best catching prospect in baseball. No, I don’t think he is in the top 3 Twins’ prospects.

Ramos’ defense is often cited as one of the largest reasons he is an elite prospect, but I’m just not completely sold. Please try and sway me otherwise, but from most the people I’ve talked to and most of the scouting reports I’ve read on Ramos indicate that his only well-above-average defensive trait is his arm He’s an average receiver and an average blocker.

Of course, the potential ceiling is all there, but I don’t weigh that heavily as some others do. Offensively, he has yet to show above-average power, is overly-aggressive at the plate, and has no speed to speak of.

Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a phenomenal prospect (probably worth of a B or B+ via Sickel’s system) but I just don’t buy that he’s the best this system has to offer. But, please, try and persuade me otherwise.

I went with Hicks here, as I did in the last poll.

Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.

by TwinsTarget on Dec 4, 2009 8:03 PM EST reply actions

The Caribbean Series championship...

…is a time when most of the teams have their best players report. Early in the season, most major leaguers are still taking it easy. But as the playoffs approach, their best players are playing. That means the top teams all have several players from the major leagues and a lot from AA and AAA. The playoffs consist of several rounds of either 5 or 7 game series. Last year, at the age of 21 Wilson Ramos was the MVP. That sure impressed the heck out of me. And yes, he is young and needs experience at the finer aspects of catching. But he is special and if he were a Met or some other team, he would have been a rookie this year.

by roger13 on Dec 4, 2009 8:47 PM EST up reply actions

For me, the power is the key.

With the ability to hit 20-25 home runs a season, Ramos would be one of the top prospects in baseball. Right now, he’d be an average catcher in MLB, which is saying quite a bit for a 22-year old. Like I said, Ramos certainly doesn’t lack youth or a high ceiling. As a personal preference, though, I value on-field performance higher than raw power or other untapped abilities that scouts claim a prospect has. Strictly on-field, Ramos is an above-average defensive catcher who hits for average, walks very little, and has no power to speak of. Now, if he develops power and becomes less aggressive at the plate, I’ll be more than happy to rate him a little higher.

(For now, though, I’m going with Hicks, which sounds a little hypocritical. Hick’s ceiling is much higher than Ramos’, though, and Hicks has shown great intangibles at the plate. Hicks also has an age advantage.)

Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.

by TwinsTarget on Dec 4, 2009 9:00 PM EST up reply actions

If power is so important, you are misreading who Ramos is...

…He led Ft. Myers with 13 home runs in 2008 while he was one of the RBI leaders in the league. This year Chris Parmalee was one of the home run leaders in the league with 16 homes runs. In 2007, he played about 60% of the year in Beloit and hit 8 home runs. He didn’t hit a lot of home runs this past year in New Britain, however, he was beat up most of the year. As of a week or two ago he was leading the VWL with 6 home runs. I don’t know if he still does or not. I have read reports of comments by key Twins minor league execs who have commented that he has as much raw power as nearly anyone in the system. Ramos will not only hit for average, he will be a 20-25 home run guy in the major leagues someday.

by roger13 on Dec 4, 2009 9:26 PM EST up reply actions

Mostly agreed, and I said as much.

If Ramos can sustain the power he showed in 2008, I’ll rank him much higher. I have no doubts that he can potentially be a 20/25 HR guy in the majors.

Formerly known as "Andersklasen."
Check out the best Twins' blog on the web: TwinsTarget.com.

by TwinsTarget on Dec 4, 2009 9:57 PM EST up reply actions

I pretty much agree

I went with Hicks here as well

but Ramos has to go #3 or #4 overall for me then.,

Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 4, 2009 9:49 PM EST up reply actions

Ballot for #3

a lot of the same names

but Ben Revere should definitely stay on I have him #4 or #5 overall…..(has to be top 6 IMO)

and for player consideration for Ballot #3 I’ll go with 1 of Joe Benson or Chris Parmelee to replace Tosoni …

Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 4, 2009 9:54 PM EST reply actions

Bromberg and Morales

While perhaps not in contention for #2, should be in the conversation by #5. Hope to see them back. Hicks and Jean may have super high ceilings, and last year I’d have gone that route because there weren’t star caliber guys more advanced, but this year I can’t ignore Ramos, Bromberg, and Revere, and I’ll throw Gibson into that group as well. But I’m not going to split hairs. By the time the top 20 is done, 18 of 20 will be guys I’d have picked, just not in the same order.

by Han Joelo on Dec 4, 2009 10:28 PM EST reply actions

+1

Deolis Guerra = Daniel Cabrera ?
I tend to think so

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Dec 4, 2009 10:55 PM EST up reply actions

I didn't know Alex Burnett's mom and 39 of her friends read this blog

http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com

by fetch9 on Dec 4, 2009 11:48 PM EST reply actions

Theory

I think you can only vote once IF you are signed in. But if you’re not signed in, I think you can vote as much as you want, over and over.

by SethSpeaks on Dec 5, 2009 12:28 AM EST reply actions

You can vote from different computers

I’m pretty sure I voted on this at work and now that I’m home it gave me the option to vote again. If I log out it doesn’t let me vote at all though. So I’m thinking someone could be at a workplace with multiple cpu’s or a school or something and just log in and vote from multiple cpu’s and from different browsers on the same cpu (using both mozilla, and internet explorer). I’m no CPU expert but I’m assuming if I were to go and clear cookies I could vote over and over again from the same CPU.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Dec 5, 2009 1:11 AM EST up reply actions

Cookies

I’m pretty sure you can just clear the TwinkieTown cookie from your browser or whatever, and that is all that prevents you from voting again.
In other words, this is perhaps what some people were doing:
clear cookie = vote again. Repeat.

Not to mention you can vote again in different browsers (IE, Firefox, Safari, Chrome, Opera, etc.)

by TwinkieBaseball on Dec 5, 2009 1:35 AM EST up reply actions

IP

Maybe if you could change the poll to go off of a person’s IP address or MAC address, rather than cookies it might fix the problem, or at least assure that the poll isn’t being manipulated.

by TwinkieBaseball on Dec 5, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions

that would probably be a better way to do it

Not sure how easy it would be to make that change – anyone know anyone that runs SB Nation tech support?

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 5, 2009 1:47 AM EST up reply actions

Foolproof, but clunky plan

Make a comment after the post with each of the candidates names, then have members rec the comment in order to vote. Non-members couldn’t vote, and you could only vote for the same player once. You could, however, vote for more than one player, but then you are just cancelling yourself out.

by archie2227 on Dec 5, 2009 1:33 PM EST up reply actions

I think you are right about that, as long as you clear the cookie

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Dec 5, 2009 1:43 AM EST up reply actions

There definitely appears to be an irregularity with the vote

as Jean got so many votes in the last two hours, and there was very little (only Percy Harvin…) in the way of comments supporting his selection. I think it’s fairly obvious that a person or group of people stuffed the ballot box near the end.

However, as others have noted, how do you fix this? Without intervention from SB IT, the only way I can think to get a true, untainted vote would be directly in the comment threads, and I’m not willing to manually go through and count votes.

by Adam Peterson on Dec 5, 2009 7:48 AM EST up reply actions

You don't have to be signed in to vote

but it only lets you vote once from one computer and one browser, once voted from, it wont let you vote again, weather you were logged in and then log out, or voted and then logged in.

Will the Real Thor Please Stand Up ... ?

by the Real Thor on Dec 5, 2009 8:20 AM EST up reply actions

Wrong

I was able to vote 2 more times using the same computer because I was not logged on just by hitting “Back” and “Forward” after I voted.

"Is it normal to wake up in the morning in a sweat because you can't wait to beat another human's guts out?" -Joe Kapp

by less cowbell, more 'neau on Dec 5, 2009 2:03 PM EST up reply actions

Hey.....

Bromberg and Morales could easily be in the top five. Bring them back!

Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!

by rosterman on Dec 5, 2009 2:27 AM EST reply actions

Agreed.

I’d put Bromberg in my personal top 5. And I’d rather see a starting pitcher than a relief pitcher (Burnett) at this point on the list, like Deolis Guerra, or BJ Hermsen.

by TwinkieBaseball on Dec 5, 2009 2:33 AM EST up reply actions

Ramos

How is Ramos not the top propsect?

Young? Check
5 Tools? Check
Good on offense and defense? Check
Plays a defensive premium position? Check
Success in upper levels? Check

Seriously, any prospect list that rates Miguel (Sano) Jean over a guy like Ramos is a complete joke. I have no question about Jean’s upside, but he doesn’t top any charts until he actually starts playing (and suceeding) at lower levels.

by diehardtwinsfan on Dec 5, 2009 9:27 AM EST reply actions

I totally agree diehardtwinsfan...

…but this is America. Thus, the voters will determine who is the top prospect. Our only hope is that those voters are responsible and vote only once.

by roger13 on Dec 5, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions

me too!

Now I know how Al Gore felt…

by clutterheart on Dec 5, 2009 10:33 AM EST up reply actions

Flaws are in your voting method

You’d be better off having everyone rank their choices and give points in reverse order (1 point for 10th, 10 points for 1st). Anytime you declare a winner with 25% of the vote you’re probably not measuring the true consensus of the crowd. Put it this way – if everyone has Ramos 2nd but Jean places anywhere from 3rd to 10th on the other people’s ballots, then Ramos should win. At the very least there should be a runoff with the top 3.

by DJL44 on Dec 5, 2009 9:58 AM EST reply actions

+1

by Han Joelo on Dec 5, 2009 11:12 AM EST up reply actions

I don't disagree...

…but your suggestion DJL44, with 400 votes would take a computer progream that only Adam is capable of programming and about 8 hours a day of input and analysis. This is how Seth did it last year and although it ain’t perfect, it does work!

by roger13 on Dec 5, 2009 11:19 AM EST up reply actions