Winter Meetings Open Thread, Monday
6:30 pm - As TonyO points out in the comment threads, LEN III is reporting that Pavano will indeed accept the Twins' offer of arbitration.
I should point out that this means there is only one rotation spot up for grabs. This provides Minnesota with a lot of starting pitching depth, although none of the contenders for the fifth spot look like stars. Could the Twins batch a couple of them along with another piece or two to get something significant in return?
Back to Pavano, Ed Price thinks the Twins could be on the hook for $7 million for this decision. Considering this was his first healthy season in half a decade, I think that's a bit high unless he reaches some incentive bonuses. But we'll find out.
3:45 pm - Happy Monday afternoon y'all, here's another Jesse update, rounding up some of the SP and 3B names and teams in circulation...
- Ed Price tweets that no fewer than 12 teams are interested in Tigers starter Edwin Jackson.
- Meanwhile, Ken Davidoff wonders if starters not named John Lackey or Randy Wolf can get more than a one-year deal.
- Speaking of Wolf, Ken Rosenthal says the Brewers are hot on his trail.
- Former Pavano rotation-mate Brad Penny is close to signing with the Cardinals.
- It sounds like Mark DeRose will decline the Cards' offer of arbitration.
- Adrian Beltre is also likely to decline arbitration.
Noon - Ken Rosenthal contradicts Neal, saying Pavano is actually likely to accept the offer of arbitration. Intriguing.
10:15 am - La Velle is guessing that Pavano will decline arbitration, and is hoping to get a multi-year deal.
9:30 am - Morning all, Jesse here. Over at Big League Stew there's a perma-chat going on, with news from Yahoo!'s pundits. A couple of things from Tim Brown: apparently Pavano's agent pressed the Twins for a multi-year deal last night. Brown also mentions that the Twins have prioritized starting pitching and third basemen, "in that order".
9:00 am - Only one link so far to start off the morning - Kelsie Smith at the PiPress reminds us all that those offered arbitration have to decide today whether to accept it. For the Twins, that's only Carl Pavano, and apparently Bill Smith and Pavano agent Tom O'Connell were deep in conversation late last night.
HOT STOVE CHAOS! HERE WE GO!
Okay, we're Twins fans; it's unlikely we'll see too much CHAOS this week. Nevertheless, we'll be following the news and posting updates in this thread. Discuss in the comments, of course.
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by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 9:38 AM EST via mobile reply actions
They should already be having their meetings now.
I’m sure over the best breakfast buffet you can imagine. It’s making me hungry just thinking about it.
Indianapolis?
Strange location for Winter meetings. Supposed to be near-freezing all week with lots of precipitation shifing back and forth between rain and snow. Not much of a winter playground there either.
I suppose it keeps everyone holed up in the hotel all week with no distractions. :)
Nicknames...
I’m thinking Pavano needs a nickname. Like A-Rod or O-Cab.
C-Pav?
And how about J-Kube for my namesake?
The beard abides.
by Jason Kubel's Beard on Dec 7, 2009 11:14 AM EST reply actions
NO
The “A-Rod” name style only works for Alex Rodriguez and Kenyon Martin (although it would’ve worked well for Tim Duncan, and it’s not terrible for Cabrera) – every other time, it looks like something a middle-age white sportswriter would come up with to sound hip.
“Kubes” is okay (although probably ominous that it kinda rhymes with “pubes”, potentially leading to the worst sports blog name since “Luol’s Dong”). I’m kinda rooting for him to shave his head so we can use “Ku Ball”.
For Pavano, is “Hot Carl” going too deep into disgusting territory? It works when he’s on a hot streak, and it works when he’s terrible.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
Um...I think "Pavs" is okay.
Less gross and can still be used in good and bad situations.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
I don't like "Pavs"...
It seems too generic to me, like the nickname you’d give someone when you can’t come up with a nickname (“Kubes” qualifies for that, too, but it sounds better). I would agree, though, that “Hot Carl Pavano” is probably not the kind of family-friendly name we want, either.
I keep thinking that maybe something involving Pavlov’s Dog would work, but it’s starting to seem like quite a bit of a stretch (although it would be cool if you could train him to throw a strike every time you ring a tuning fork).
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
How about Pavlov
Maybe we can train him to hit the glove every time we ring a bell.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
OH MY GOD.
Yes. YES. THIS is the WINNER.
This is amazing, I was just talking with a friend earlier today about Pavlov’s dog…although not in quite the same context.
Also one of my favorite cold opens on The Office, when Jim trains Dwight to expect the Altoid.
We'll have to put in a special request to BatGirl.
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by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 1:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Nobody messes with "De Punto"
I really don’t like that 3B is a priority over 2B, only because I’d much rather see them bring in one of the 2B available in either Lopez or Hudson. I’ve said it before but my reasoning is because Valencia will be there to possibly replace Punto at 3B but there’s no one to displace “De Punto” if he’s at 2B. Well, at least no one terribly exciting. With Casilla/Tolbert/Tolleson/Plouffe being our other options I’m not terribly excited. If Punto is awful then we have musical go round of awful options.
The other reason being that the Twins need a 2B/3B as well as a #2 hitter which both Lopez and Hudson fill. However as far as 3B go, Chone is the only one I’d want there, possibly Derosa but he’s so old and supposedly wants big money however undeserving he is of it.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Over at Fantasy News.....
DeRosa was quoted as saying he was looking for 3 years and $9 million. What did we pay Punto for two?
Could be a starter in 2010, backup at 2nd and 3rd in 2011 and bench guy in 2012 (or trade bait at $3 million).
Visit www.TwinsCards.com and check out "rosters" to see my collection!
That's cheap
for DeRosa, I’m surprised he’s looking for 3 years at his age. If De Rosa is that cheap, I’d consider him as a dual 3B/2B option. Start the season at 3B, move to 2B if/when Punto falters and Valencia comes up.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 7, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
9 million per year
As Northstar said below it’s 9 million per year. Now that’s way too much and I don’t believe he’ll get paid that much especially coming off of a bit of a down season that ended in injury.
If he went 3 years at 9 million total, yes that’s a great deal and totally worth it. I see him getting something similar to Polanco though.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
3/27 is more than DeRosa will get
He and the other second and third tier free agents are walking a tightrope right now. He’s got to start his negotiations high, but not so high that a number of teams walk away early and he’s fighting for table scraps in February.
I think he’ll be at or just a bit below Polanco.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 7, 2009 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
Punto at 2B
Does not bother me.
But Punto at 3B really bothers me.
by clutterheart on Dec 7, 2009 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
Depends...
UZR says that Punto is an appreciably better-fielding third baseman than second baseman (although it’s about a year and a half of data, so you’re within your rights not to completely trust it). Also, I’d argue that where Punto is “better” should pretty much entirely depend on whether they find a better second baseman or third baseman. If they trade for Dan Uggla, assuming he’s a better second baseman than third baseman (since that’s where he’s played his whole career), you don’t just put him at 3B and Punto at 2B because Uggla hits more like a third baseman.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
exactly
To me the fact that Punto looks bad compared to other 3B defensively and looks ok compared to 2B offensively doesn’t matter one bit. We know Punto will be starting at one of the two spots. If we can get a player at 2B who provides more value to the team than a player at 3B then who gives a crap how Punto compares to other 3B. I’m sorry I’ve heard this argument before and it makes no sense.
So it’s not Punto vs. It’s Hudson vs. Beltre or Lopez vs. Crede, etc. I’ll say there are some scenarios where yes I’d rather have the 3B, I’d probably take Beltre over most of the 2B however I think he’ll cost more and be too much for the Twins.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Valencia
.285AVG 38 Doubles 14 HR’s .466 SLG .803 OPs. Sure it’s AAA but Punto never had numbers like that. Valencia and Crede. Keep Punto as a middle infielder. He has value as middle infielder.
by b1 on Dec 7, 2009 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
That's my point
Valencia is the main reason that if the Twins are going to get one good infielder it should not be a 3B because hopefully Valencia will take over. That’s why Punto SHOULD play 3B so Valencia can come up and replace him. If we sign a 3B to a long term deal then we just blocked Valencia at AAA. However if Punto is the one holding the fort at 3B then he will be more likely to be out of the lineup and Valencia will be up.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
I agree with this, mostly
I would add Tolbert (but not Harris) to the list of guys who can fill that gap until Valencia is ready. But all reports indicate that the Twins think he needs more seasoning, and want a veteran third baseman for one or two years until he’s ready. I could see maybe getting someone for one year, but two? He’ll rot on the vine by then. Who wants a 27-year-old rookie?
I think second base is the bigger need. That doesn’t appear to be on their list, unless they’re being coy with Kelsie and Lavell to gain leverage (wouldn’t be the first time).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I can agree with not having Valencia up right away
He wasn’t overwhelming in AAA and getting a one year deal on Crede or something would be nice, however I’d just rather see Punto over there and then a solid #2 hitter at 2B for the next 3-4 years. Time will tell I guess.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
That's how you and I see it BUT!
Graddy seem in love with Punto. Once at third he might bat .175 and start every game. I agree with your little trick to get a 2nd baseman, but will Graddy play along or Kill us with a year of Punto a 3B.
by b1 on Dec 7, 2009 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
That's why you trade Perkins and Punto for Lowrie
Gardy can’t play Punto come Hell or high water if he’s not on the roster.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Punto's arm
is my biggest concern putting him at third base. The last couple seasons, Punto’s arm has gotten steadily worse (to my eyes). I expect he’ll have plus range at third, as he’s shown in the past, but he needs an arm to complete the play.
I’m fine if we can sign a Felipe Lopez or trade for Dan Uggla, we can live with Punto at third. But all things being equal, I’d rather see Punto at second than third next year.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 8, 2009 9:57 AM EST up reply actions
You're right to be worried
His arm is marginal even at second base, especially when he has to turn two. This is why I think they’re going after a third baseman instead of a second baseman. They like Punto at second. Or, Gardy likes Punto at second and they’ve decided to pick their battles with him instead of inciting him to be the whiner he was the last two years.
I wonder if any of the current free agent third basemen would take a one-year deal to try to pump up their value for next year, when the supply will be lower. It sure would be nice to see Beltre over there.
I wouldn’t be averse to making do with Punto, Tolbert, Casilla, and Tolleson at second next year as long as they put their second baseman ninth in the order. What worries me is Gardy putting Punto second and killing rally after rally by inserting outs in the midst of his best hitters.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
I hadn't thought about the arm
I’m still a fan of taking advantage of the 2B market this year and still having 3B available for Valencia at some point this year. However, that is a very good point that his arm might not be good enough.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
Arm?
SS if farther away from 1B than 3B is. I don’t think his arm is that bad.
Crede is still an option if we find a good 2b....
He probably won’t cost more than $3 M or so, and if he gets hurt, Valencia is ready. Plus Crede could transition into an excellent defensive replacement and backup at 1b with pop. Felipe Lopez and Joe Crede would make me pretty happy.
That would make me pretty happy as well
with Punto and Tolbert as the backup infielders. I’d rather go out and grab Kouzmanoff than sign Crede, similar price and still room to sign Lopez if desired. Of course, with Punto on the roster, it would never happen.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 12, 2009 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
He was lobbing it over there from SS in June
One of the reasons Harris replaced him as the regular shortstop at that point was his arm strength. The other reason was he had an OPS+ of 39.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Punto had a very difficult time getting the ball to first
from SS early last year.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 12, 2009 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
DeRosa link didn't work
From MLBTR 12-4-09: “Free agent infielders Adrian Beltre and Mark DeRosa had off-years offensively, but according to ESPN’s Buster Olney, both have steep asking prices. Said Olney: As teams have been checking in on the availability of infielders, they have found that the asking price for Beltre is no less than $10 million a year, and for DeRosa, it’s a three-year deal for something in the range of $9 million a year.”
Even at less than $9MM, the Twins aren’t going to out-bid anyone for DeRosa. Which is too bad, because he’d be a great fit.
i kinda do hope that Pavano accepts
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Me too.
If the price is right, I don’t mind a 2 year deal. 3 is unacceptable unless there’s an option. But at 2, it would need to be a very moderate price.
My suspicion is that Pavano wants to stay, but what he wants more is a multi-year, so he stops bouncing around.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 1:24 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i could see him accepting and then working out a 2yr deal with an option for a 3rd yr
Vikings 4 the superbowl
If he accepts, then
what will his salary be through arbitration? Closer to $5M or $10M? If he accepts arbitration, it will likely be because there is no interest in a multi-year deal. I’d be hard pressed to give him more than one year given past history, but at a very moderate price (2 years / $10M plus some incentives and possibly a team option for the third year), I’d consider it.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 7, 2009 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
MLBtraderumors thinks about 4.5 M
not too bad
Vikings 4 the superbowl
That would be excellent.
I doubt it’ll be beneath 5, though. Probably not much more.
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by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 2:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
By the way, since the Mets want rid of Luis Castillo, can we have him back?
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by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 1:59 PM EST via mobile reply actions
not for the amount of money he is due next year
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Oh. Just saw that, yeah.
Maybe they’ll eat some of the contract?
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by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 2:07 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
possibly but i doubt the twins have interest in him
also if we get him Punto would go to 3rd which would really piss me off
Vikings 4 the superbowl
I'd rather have Punto than Castillo at this point
Ergo, Castillo is done.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
yup i agree
as much as i dislike Punto, i would be ok with him at 2nd
Vikings 4 the superbowl
I can deal with that.
Although every time I think that, I also think…but I really want the Twins to sign Felipe Lopez….
tigers expected to deal Edwin Jackson soon
Vikings 4 the superbowl
Love it
I’d sure love it if Pavano took the arbitration offer. Easy, solid veteran starter crossed off the list…
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
twitter is the downfall of western civilization
Omar Minaya just bit into a tuna fish sandwich #mets #wintermeetings
formerly known in these parts as adamb
Division talent heading south?
The White Sox are treading water hoping to stay .500 and the Tigers appear to be shedding payroll in a bit of a rebuild. Cleveland’s clearly not ready to contend and neither are the Royals. The Twins have to be considered the favorites.
Exactly what I was talking about to a friend earlier today.
And just another reason to add another pivotal piece or two to solidify ourselves not just as the leading contender in the Central but as a legitimate front-runner in the AL.
How so?
Actually, it would be a disincentive to add much more. They don’t need that many more marginal wins to lock up the odds on the division (3?) and they’re never getting close to the talent the Yankees have. They could probably roll the dice on Punto, Harris, Casilla and Valencia and still be able to recover mid-season with a small trade if it craps out.
We're not just competing for the Central Division Championship this year
We’re competing for the American League Championship. If we can leave the Tigers, White Sox, Indians, and Royals far behind, we won’t have much chance against the Yankees.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Am. Lea. Pennant
would somebody listen to the jet …. we’re setting in the best shape i can remember , Sox will have pitching,,check ,, so do we Tigers nil,,check ,,Indians,,ditto,, check… Royals need help,,,, We can dooo it.. Yankees ,,got it all,,check Twins make a couple more moves and TWINS WIN TWINS WIN
True,
but the Twins are in a very rare position this year. With a couple good moves Minnesota goes from “above average” to “good”, and I think that’s a good thing. Besides, it doesn’t really matter if we can’t get close to the talent the Yankees have…we can’t play the keep-up-with-the-joneses game. But hell, even with the guys we had this last year we still had the opportunity to win the series from the Yankees. The Twins had the lead in every single game, they just couldn’t lock any of them down.
You have to keep trying to improve the club. Always. Any contending team will be rolling the dice hoping for good players to hold up, healthy players to stay healthy or young guys to contribute. Finding ways to supplement that, finding ways to add good players, is the name of the game.
Being good enough was fine a few years ago when the rest of the AL Central was weak, but I’m not ready to accept that this season. Not with the players we have, not with a core that is far and away better than the core we had from ‘02-’04. Being “good enough” is no longer acceptable as a disincentive to add better players.
Especially coming into the new stadium
They can really set the tone for the organization for the next decade depending on how 2010 goes. This season will be huge and they need to make the most of it.
by ckb on Dec 8, 2009 2:01 AM EST up reply actions
Being good enough will have to do
They are about 6 moves and $50M away from being as good as the Angels / Yankees / Red Sox. If they’re going to win the Central, they’re going to be underdogs regardless in the playoffs. Improving your playoff odds from 10% to 15% isn’t usually worth the $$. It’s all about marginal cost/benefit.
tigers,,,twins
Keep Crede. One healthy season and he’ll hit thirty home runs. And he will be A-1. Keep Harris he’s solid. Both play 110%. What if we talked trade with Detroit? We give them Young,and or Punto, and 2 of the 3 pitchers either Bonser, Liriano, or Perkins. I do like Perkins the best. Detroit gives us Granderson and Erwin Jackson and a minor league middle infielder. We would have an incredible outfield way more stability and power in the batting order (maybe 5-6, 30 home run hitters) ,,And did i say stolen bases. Curtis is a Twin at heart. He also is much better on defense you know not so scary.. Jackson’s going to win 15 maybe 18 next year as a Twin. Kubel, Cuddyer, Mauer, Morneau, JJ, and Granderson. That’s 180 home runs! Get ’er done!
Yah
Let’s give all of our crap to another team for an all star caliber CF and a solid 2-3 pitcher.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
yah yah
right Young is solid 300 hitter and cheap….Punto great D and steals bases,,good bunter and all three pitchers Liriano, Bonser, and Perkins are all strong, solid and cheap…….that is exactly what Detroit wants reduce the pay roll we pay a little more and win…maybe we’ll need a 2nd baseman well we needed that with Punto …think next level Up ,,besides Harris will give you every thing he has on every play… Hey pay more now and win the AL we almost did if ’da umps could get it right….JJ was a steal of a deal… "Play it again Sam"
No, on so many levels
First off, complete sentences are very helpful. I’m not trying to be jerk but Punto is extremely inconsistent and was our 9 hitter for a reason. The pitchers you named are cheap and that’s about it. Perkins has some value but Liriano and Bonser are anything but solid or strong. Liriano’s got potential but not much trade value at this point. So I’m sorry but no this trade would never happen.
As far as Delmon coming into his own, I hope you’re right but so far there’s no evidence to say he’s coming into his own other than a slightly above average month at the end of the season and even that’s debatable because of his horrible defense.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
yah
yes i can’t agree with you more. the only consistent thing about punto is his mediocre to single a batting ability. delmon young will never be worth jason bartlett. that was a terrible misjudgment ….as was the santana fiasco,,,,,,,,,,,,,,boston will offer a couple double a players as will new york …………….we are actually offering alot more a different hitting coach and young could show the power he was supposed to have. punto will never have power but .300 isn’t out of the question.. do i believe any of this NO,,,,,,,,,but it’s what detroit believes and needs that counts,,,,,boof really never had a chance he might???? i believe JJ will hit 30 hr’s as a twin don’t you
ha ha yah
like i said yesterday detroit gets 2 bum prospects and the yanks get the gold en allstar 30 homerun granderson Will the twins dump mauer for 2 stupid prospects
2 bum prospects?
Scherzer is a heck of a SP talent/K machine. Schlereth figures to be a very good bullpen arm longterm. Jackson is as athletic as they come and is probably going to be better than Granderson, who is really not that good (think Jacque Jones, seriously), and Coke is another good bullpen piece. Tigers kill the Yankees in this one IMO.
punto
punto’s a 4 millon dollar man that can’t hit
or bunt, or run to first base, or stop rounding third, or ...
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Breaking News from Lavelle E Neal's Twitter
Carl Pavano will accept arbitration from the Twins later tonight.
Ack.
Not too thrilled about that, I have to say. I don’t expect him to pitch well, and it obviously hamstrings them to make other acquisitions.
by Eric in Madison on Dec 7, 2009 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
On the other hand,
if he DOES pitch well, or about the same as he did last year, then this will probably turn out to be a pretty solid decision. Especially if on a one-year contract worth somewhere around $5 million.
on the same hand
carl gave up a major league high 113 earned runs,,,,but we make a trade and score more.. 5.10 era albeit he pitched better in minn.
Yeah
Have take all stats into account as he spent half the season with Crapland……I mean Cleveland so they are going to inflate that into the red. 10 to 1 he has a very good year and show’s he is healed up and ready to go.
"If you're gonna shoot, shoot, don't talk."
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"We have clearance Clearance. Roger Rodger, what's our vector Victor?"
by VikesFaninNM on Dec 7, 2009 10:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'm pleased!
Especially when you consider that otherwise, we may have pursued Washburn.
http://www.realityfish.com
by Robin G on Dec 7, 2009 8:04 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Yay!
Glad to hear Pavlov [eh…] will be back in MN next year.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver
Yes. My guess is they nontender Harris before officially signing Pavano
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
Right-ho.
It’s midnight-thirty in the UK, time for me to hit the bricks. TT will be updating your news and notes for the remainder of the evening, but I’ll catch you cats tomorrow…
Sounds like the Rays might non-tender Dioner Navarro.
Could be an interesting backup catcher
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
He made $2.1M last year
Have to imagine he’d make at least that much in his second year of arbitration. I’d rather have Morales at the MLB minimum as the backup.
by Adam Peterson on Dec 8, 2009 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
fair enough
I didn’t realize his salary was that high
http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com
Pavano will be a Twin, it's official
I’m pretty happy about this move as it really opens the Twins up to make a trade using their pitching depth. Swarzak, Duensing, and Perkins all could have decent value. Some might think this move limits the Twins but in my opinion it could actually open some doors on the trade front either for a top starter like Johnson or Cain or maybe a younger 2B that would save the Twins some cash.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
To-do list
1) Extend Mauer’s contract
2) Obtain a SS
4) Get another infielder
5) Bargain hunt for SP
6) Take another infielder if they fall in your lap
3. Profit!!
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all." -Earl Weaver

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