Twins Lineup, 2009 Opening Day
by Jesse on Feb 23, 2009 10:00 AM EST
in Speculation
43 comments
Any guesses?
With this weekend's announcement of the signing of Joe Crede, how will Ron Gardenhire insert his new third baseman into the lineup? As a right-handed bat, will he insert him behind Justin Morneau to make sure three left-handed batters aren't strung together in a Joe Mauer-Morneau-Jason Kubel murderer's row? Or, like Howard Sinker speculates, will Crede sit in the seven-hole where his low on-base percentage isn't sitting behind the team's best two hitters?
This is not what I'd like to see personally, rather it's how I expect Ron Gardenhire would fill out his lineup card. This is before we've had any objectove or subjective evaluation over the course of spring training, but that's part of the fun. Knowing what I know now, here's my Gardenhire-immitation Opening Day lineup:
RF - Denard Span
2B - Alexi Casilla
C - Joe Mauer
1B - Justin Morneau
3B - Joe Crede
DH - Jason Kubel
LF - Delmon Young
SS - Nick Punto
CF - Carlos Gomez
If the team does go with an 11-man pitching staff, that would leave this bench:
C - Mike Redmond
IF - Matt Tolbert
IF - Brendan Harris
3B - Brian Buscher
OF - Michael Cuddyer
(Having said all this, I can also see Span on the bench with Cuddyer getting the start in right field. Re-set the lineup, and go Casilla-Punto-Mauer-Morneau-Cuddyer-Kubel-Crede-Young-Gomez.)
0 recs |
43 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Your lineup
I think the plan is going with Span in left and Delmon and Cuddyer in right this year.
by jeff92831 on Feb 23, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Span in LF, Gomez in CF, Cuddyer in RF and Kubel DH as a “base” lineup. Cuddyer will give Morneau some rest at 1B (according to the Twins asst GM this morning), opening up a few more AB for Young in RF. Then, when Gomez gets a day off, Span moves to CF and Young “plays” LF.
At least that’s where I think the OF/DH situation puts us at this point.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 23, 2009 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah...
Especially since this is talking about Opening Day. I’m sure it’ll be possible for Cuddyer to play himself out of a regular starting gig, but I would guess that, as the senior member of the outfield and longest-tenured Twin (I think), the threshold for Cuddyer to lose his Opening Day starting spot is somewhere between “two broken legs” and “decapitation”.
Replacing Delmon in that lineup with Cuddyer, my best guess is that Cuddy bats fifth, then Kubel, then Crede, as in your Span-free lineup. I could see Crede switching with Cuddyer, too (Crede is likely to hit more homers and may seem like more of a five hitter), but I’d guess Kubel will stay between them for the lefty-righty-lefty-righty thing, even though Kubel is probably the best hitter of the three and should probably bat fifth if handedness is ignored.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Feb 23, 2009 2:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like this
LF – Span
2B – Casilla
C – Mauer
1B – Morneau
RF – Cuddyer
DH – Kubel
3B – Crede
SS – Punto
CF – Gomez
This is really the only lineup that should be considered the “regulars”, at least until Crede gets hurt.
by DK on Feb 23, 2009 11:25 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That's my opening day line-up
But, as others have pointed out, Dlmon will be in for Cuddy as the regular RF by midseason, earlier if Cuddy comes up with his patented April. He’s .247/.304 /.398 in April for his career.
The other likely thing with Cuddyer is injury. For all the talk of Crede’s injury history, few have talked about how Cuddyer has had at least a nagging injury every year except for 2006.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 23, 2009 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're underestimating
the love Gardy has for Cuddyer and the distaste he has for Delmon. I doubt Cuddyer will be out of a regular role unless/until he gets hurt.
Like I’ve said before, I don’t really care personally who plays more between Cuddyer and Delmon, as long as they don’t take lots of time away from the other three. But I believe Gardenhire has a clear favorite that’s just not going to change until an injury happens.
by DK on Feb 23, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Delmon kills the ball in spring and Cuddyer slumps....
…Delmon will get his hacks during the regular season. I agree, Gardy plays favorites, but he also wants to win. And he plays the hot hand. So whoever hits the best gets the most at bats by the end of the year, supposing them both healthy.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 23, 2009 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Infield
I like Tolbert, but I suspect he’s now the odd man out. Harris can play all three positions (like Tolbert), although with worse defense. I think Buscher stays as a LH bat and will get AB when Crede rests (at least once a week I bet). The question is whether Tolbert in AAA would take playing time away from Plouffe or Tolleson.
I’m confident we could make an 11-man pitching staff work, but that would probably mean Mijares in AAA and Nathan-Crain-Guerrier-Ayala-Breslow-Bonser/Humber in the pen. I’d rather go with the extra bullpen arm and additional LHP (if Mijares) than an extra bat off the bench.
by Adam Peterson on Feb 23, 2009 11:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
The only way we keep Tolbert is if we can go down to 11 pitchers. Gardy as said he wants to, but if it’s between optioning Tolbert out and sending Humber through waivers, they’ll option Tolbert out.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 23, 2009 1:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Harris
I don’t think we will see Harris at second any time soon. I saw a report that he was working out there, but after last year’s disaster, I doubt Gardenhire would play him there.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Feb 23, 2009 7:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I thinks it is more likely
that either Span or Gomez struggle in Spring Training and you have Cuddyer and Young in the outfield with either Span or Gomez getting the start in center.
richman
by anderson800 on Feb 23, 2009 3:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gardy
has basically said that he wont leave Ft. Myers without Gomez. And why should he? Gomez may hit .260 again this year but his defense is the best in baseball! No way do you leave the best CF in baseball behind in AAA no matter how bad his bat is, his defense makes up for it.
by 33MorneauMVP on Feb 23, 2009 3:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
i think Crede will bat in the 7th spot to start the season but by midseason when young takes over for cuddyer Crede moves to 5 Young goes to 7
Danoo
by Danoo on Feb 23, 2009 3:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
1. Span LF
2. Mauer C
3.Morneau 1B
4.Crede 3B
5. Kubel DH
6. Young RF
7. Casilla 2B
8. Punto SS
9. Gomez CF
by Tony_O on Feb 23, 2009 6:15 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Cuddyer
Cuddyer is a better hitter than Young, and a better fielder. All of the outfielders will get “rested” more than they want, but the odd man out most often will be Young unless he is dynamic with the bat.
Cuddyer will start off the season hitting fifth, and I think it is as likely that he hits fourth regularly as it is that he loses his job. I think that is on merit.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Feb 23, 2009 7:05 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Gardy’s opening day will by Cuddyer 5th and Young on the bench. Other than that, your lineup is more or less what I am expecting as well. What I would prefer would be something lke:
Span CF
Harris 2B
Mauer C
Morneau 1B
Cuddyer RF
Kubel DH
Crede 3B
Young LF
Casilla SS
Last year I argued before the season, as most did, that Gomez belonged in AAA. He proved us all right, but even so this year the decision is not obvious. I would lean towards sending him down right now, but there is a lot of Spring ball to be played.
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on Feb 23, 2009 8:20 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like where your head's at
I’m with you, more or less. I think Gomez is good in CF, but I think it would be better for the Twins if he starts at AAA. Unless he proves he can hit starting MLB pitching in spring training, which I don’t expect. He’ll end up on the major league team, but I still don’t think its the right decision. That said, I probably shouldn’t have brought it up again, since we’ve discussed it ad-nauseum (sp?).
But, I would still swap Casilla and Harris, in both field position, and batting order. Harris looked better at SS than 2B. Additionally, I think Casilla has better OBP potential, so get him the extra PAs.
Then, I think we all have to remember that there will be a lot subbing. In this forecast, you have to remember that Buscher and Punto are going to get their PAs, since Crede can’t play every day, and Harris probably shouldn’t either. In addition, in the actual outfield, we have to remember that they are going to have to find a way to play and sit everyone. The question is whether Gardy decides that the position in the field needs to tie to the position in the batting order (wtf). That could influence his order.
by snolls on Feb 23, 2009 11:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I would also swap Casilla and Harris
what I meant was Cassila at 2B and Harris at SS. Harris would give up some runs with his glove and get some back with his bat, when compared with Punto. My intuition is that we’d come out on top with Harris, but I could be wrong.
Yes, Harris absolutely cannot pivot and turn the DP from second, it is embarrassing to watch.
http://noblingblings.blogspot.com/
by Aaron Fix on Feb 24, 2009 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone who pencils in Harris at 2B
loses any possible credibility in baseball analysis.
Harris showed, repeatedly, that his wooden legs were like taking out a saw-horse in pivot plays, and also, that he had no range, neither right nor left. What is about Harris that you like at 2B? Surely not his hitting…
by Old Twins Cap on Feb 23, 2009 11:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Like Twins management?
Twins management traded for him to be there starting 2B. I know we all have our criticisms, but I suspect they still have some possible credibility in baseball analysis.
That said, I agree that he looked better at SS and 3B than 2B. It just makes me wonder why. I suspect it is something that could be learned. The turn can’t be that much harder.
by snolls on Feb 24, 2009 8:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
I know they traded for him, but as a possible starting infielder or utility guy with an above average bat. It was Gardy who insisted that he be the everyday second baseman after seeing him in the field all spring. I found that astonishing considering that he had both Punto and Casilla in camp and he could plainly see that Harris was the worst fielder of the three. Perhaps he got pressure from upstairs, but I doubt it.
Anyway, the point still stands. Harris can’t play second except in emergencies. Anybody who would choose him over Casilla or Punto doesn’t understand baseball. Middle infielders get paid as much to prevent runs as create them. And it’s not like Harris is Dan Uggla or something. He’s a decent hitter, but a career OPS+ of 97 is not an offensive machine by any standards.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 24, 2009 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I will never forget the game
in Chicago, maybe May last year. Routine double play ball to third, flip to Harris at second, he takes two steps toward first base with the baseball in his glove, gets upended by Juan Uribe and is unable to complete the DP. Sox score a run. Twins lose.
Routine double play. Could not get his feet together on the pivot.
Not a major league 2B. Not now. Not ever. I will take up the Brewers before I invest any attention on the Twins with Harris at 2B.
by Old Twins Cap on Feb 24, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup:
MINE
Young will get pitches to hit all year long batting in front of Mauer, + its not like he doesnt’ have the speed to bat 2nd.
1. LF Span
2. RF Young
3. C Mauer
4. 1B Morneau
5. DH Cuddyer/ Kubel
6. 3B Crede
7. CF Gomez
8. 2B Casilla
9. SS Punto
Cuddyer will also spell young in Right field, Morneau at 1st base and maybe even occasionally Casilla at 2nd(doubt it) Kubel is really the primary DH though, really.
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Feb 23, 2009 8:57 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No to the idea
I don’t think Mauer would give anyone in front of him fastballs. Mauer’s not a homerun threat, and barely a doubles threat. That said, I love Homegrown and wouldn’t want any other catcher in baseball. But Mauer’s game doesn’t give fastballs to the guy in front of him.
Did Olerud give fastballs to the guy ahead of him?
No matter Young’s position, he’ll swing at the first fastball he sees — and try to sneak it under the second baseman’s glove. Is that the spray chart you want in the two hole?
by Evan Nelson on Feb 23, 2009 10:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Slow hacker and DP machine
I’m against putting a slow hacker anywhere near the top of the order, especially one who hit 261 ground balls and grounding into 19 double plays last year. I would rather have Gomez hitting ahead of Mauer than Delmon, not that it would be my first choice. My first choice is Casilla. I like bunching speed at the top and bottom, so Span and Casilla at the top and Puto and Gomez at the bottom seems the best fit for all of them.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 23, 2009 10:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crede in 7 hole
how many good pitches is Crede gonna get to hit hitting in front of Punto?
by ianmader on Feb 23, 2009 11:28 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I say Crede #5
I think the whole reason we have Crede is to have a power righthanded bat in between Morneau and Kubel. Yes his OBP/AVG isn’t great but it’s not because he’s striking out all the time. He doesn’t draw a ton of walks for a power guy so he must be putting the ball in play a lot and thus hopefully moving guys around the bases when he’s not getting hits. I think putting him in the 5 hole and then sliding Cuddy/Young in there on his days off would be the best us of Crede’s ability. Now I will show my pipe dream of a lineup
LF Span
C Mauer
1B Morneau
3B Crede
DH Kubel/Young
RF Cuddy/Young
2B Casilla
SS Punto
CF Gomez
He batted Mauer 2nd for a milisecond last year so who knows, maybe he’ll lose his mind and do it again.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Feb 24, 2009 12:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
If Crede can duplicate his 2006 numbers he would be a great fit for the #5 hole between Morneau and Kubel. However, if he does not he does not have the average or obp to bat in the 5 hole that is why cuddyer or young would be a better fit for that spot. Yound will bat around .300 and Cuddyer might not have the average, but will have abetter obp than Crede. So, if Crede does not show a good average or obp I could see him batting behind Kubel. Also, I like Span and Casilla at the top and Punto and Gomez at the bottom, however after the first time through the lineup it would not really matter how they are positioned.
by bgigs52 on Feb 24, 2009 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Crede can't get on base
Crede’s career OBP is .306 – heck, his career high (.323) is less than I’d like to see from anyone in the top 55% of the batting order. I can certainly see Gardy doing it – he’s more of a power threat than Cuddyer or Young, the other two righty options, and thus more of a stereotypical #5 hitter – but I don’t know that I like maximizing the AB of a guy who gets out 70% of the time.
I like your Span-Mauer-Morneau beginning, but I’m wondering if that ship sailed after Cuddy got hurt and Mauer and Morneau really took off in the 3-4 spots.
If handedness weren’t an issue, I’d put Kubel after Morneau – he’s the next-best hitter on the team.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Feb 24, 2009 11:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Handedness matters
Especially late in the game. Say you have Mauer, Morneau and Kubel coming up in the eighth down by a run. The opposing manager can bring in his situational lefty for the whole inning. If you put Young or Cuddyer between Morneau and Kubel, you force him to use two or three relievers to get the match-ups he wants. Over the course of a series, that takes a toll.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 24, 2009 11:38 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I know...
Hence the “if” in my post. If Cuddyer can return to 2006-ish form, though, he’s pretty much equivalent to Kubel, and lineup construction is generally pretty overrated anyway.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Feb 24, 2009 11:58 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If Cuddyer and Crede can return to 2006 form....
….we’ll be pretty good.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Feb 24, 2009 1:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
There isn't anything hard about this...
…the lineup will look like this:
1. Span OF (Lefty)
2. Casilla 2B (Switch Hitter)
3. Mauer C (Lefty)
4. Morneau 1B (Lefty)
5. Crede 3B (Righty)
6. Kubel DH (Lefty)
7. Cuddyer OF (Righty)
8. Punto SS (Switch Hitter)
9. Gomez OF (Righty)
I don’t see how Delmon Young will beat out any of the outfielders I have listed on the lineup. I can see however, Young filling in for the DH and backing up any outfielders throughout the season. With this lineup, Opposing pitchers will have a tough time. Here’s an idea…when a RHP is opposing this lineup, Span hits first, Casilla hits lefty, then Mauer, then Morneau, then Kubel, then Crede. This giving the RHP a headache dealing with 5 leftys in a row.
by Gornara on Feb 24, 2009 12:47 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Looks correct to me for opening day
I think Gornara has the line-up correct for opening day. Crede is the “veteran” and so he’ll bat behind Morneau. And unless Young has one heck of a spring offensively (or Span or Gomez really struggle) I can’t see him in the opening day line up. That being said I think Gardenhire will get him plenty of starts each week especially against left handed pitchers.
by armadillo44 on Feb 24, 2009 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what about
Span L
Casilla S
Mauer L
Cuddyer R
Morneau L
Crede R
Kubel L
Punto S
Gomez R
Now thats pretty balanced. Cuddyer did have his best year hitting between Mauer and Morneau. Who wouldn’t hit better hitting between Mauer and Morneau? Obviously theres an advantage of having them together and last year it worked pretty good, but I think if one of our good right handed bats (Cuddy, Young or Crede) is hot, putting them between the M’s could do wonders.
by ianmader on Feb 24, 2009 2:16 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm with that
if Cuddyer is hitting well. If he’s getting on based around .350 (2006-2007), then its a good plan. He has enough power to justifiy it, if he can threaten for 50 XBH or so (again 2006-2007). Plus this provides the balance we would want. That said, if he isn’t getting on base, and he usually starts slow, you have to have Morneau coming up when Mauer is on base (40+% of the time).
by snolls on Feb 24, 2009 3:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
My objection
I like the switching, but I’d rather not put one of the team’s top two hitters (Morneau) that far down in the order – the Twins should be maximizing his at-bats. I think the slight lefty-lefty strategic issue is a reasonable price for an extra dozen or two plate appearances for Morneau.
I do like that in principle (your point about Cuddyer’s best year is relevant as well, although it’s impossible to know how much of that was just coincidence), but if I were to put Cuddyer between the M&Ms, I’d kick Casilla to the bottom of the order and bat them 2-3-4 – there’s still the lefty-lefty situation with Span and Mauer, but again, I think it’s offset by maximizing the plate appearances of the best guys.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Feb 24, 2009 3:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless injury happens
Cuddyer will be in the line-up.
Span
Cassilla
Mauer
Morneau
Cuddyer
Kubel
Crede
Punto
Gomez
Its been said before, but thats no doubt the opening day line-up, unless…
As far as the bullpen is concerned, sounds like much is still in the air with Boof’s issues and the fact their actively talking about adding Cruz..
by Twins win on Feb 24, 2009 7:06 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Casilla
I love his arm and I like his potential but I just don’t know that he’s an automatic top of the order guy yet. With the cost or lack of cost involved with Hudson I really wish the Twins would have picked him up so Span/Hudson would have been 1,2 in either order. The way it is I’d really like to see another go of Mauer at 2, Cuddy, then Morneau
Span
Mauer
Cuddy
Morneau
Crede
Kubel
Casilla
Punto
Gomez
If Cuddy plays well enough in spring training to lock down his position then I could see Gardy giving this another shot w/ Young filling in for Cuddy and Kubel from time to time.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Feb 24, 2009 7:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like
I like that lineup. Mauer is a lefty, but for all practical purposes, he’s a righty.
by ianmader on Feb 25, 2009 3:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Twinkie Town
Related FanShots on Twinkie Town
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
