Twins 2009 Lineup, Via The Book
Over at Beyond the Box Score, Sky Kalkman discusses two ways to construct a batting order. One of thsoe ways is Old School, the other way is as done by The Book. Taking excerpts from Kalkman's piece, how would The Book construct the Twins' batting order in 2009?
Tom Tango, Mitchel Lichtman, and Andy Dolphin are the authors of The Book, which discusses minutia of the game like the base on balls and clutch performance, and then evaluates those aspects of the game historically. Today, I'm interested in constructing a batting order.
The Lead-Off Hitter:
Old School says this spot is all about speed. Speed helps manufacture runs, and having a guy who's able to take an extra base or steal a bag makes it easier.
Kalkman's take on what The Book says:
The Book says OBP is king. The lead-off hitter comes to bat only 36% of the time with a runner on base, versus 44% of the time for the next lowest spot in the lineup, so why waste homeruns? The lead-off hitter also comes to the plate the most times per game, so why give away outs? As for speed, stealing bases is most valuable in front of singles hitters, and since the top of the order is going to be full of power hitters, they're not as important. The lead-off hitter is one of the best three hitters on the team, the guy without homerun power. Speed is nice, as this batter will have plenty of chances to run the bases with good hitters behind him.
If on-base percentage is the number one priority for this slot, then there are a number of options. I'd list Minnesota's three best hitters as Joe Mauer, Justin Morneau and Jason Kubel, but knowing that we don't want to waste home runs, we'll narrow down our list of potentials to two.
Options: Denard Span, Joe Mauer
Two Hole:
This should be a hitter with excellent bat control, who can move the lead-off hitter along. A guy who can put the ball where he wants it, which doesn't always necessitate him being a good hitter.
Kalkman's interpretation from The Book:
The Books says the #2 hitter comes to bat in situations about as important as the #3 hitter, but more often. That means the #2 hitter should be better than the #3 guy, and one of the best three hitters overall. And since he bats with the bases empty more often than the hitters behind him, he should be a high-OBP player. Doesn't sound like someone who should be sacrificing, does it?
No, Sky, it doesn't. This means no Nick Punto, and no Alexi Casilla, either. If we're talking about one of the team's three best hitters, and we are, there really aren't a lot of options for this spot. And none of them are guys who will typically hit second for the Twins.
Options: Joe Mauer, Jason Kubel
Three Hole:
This is where your best hitter goes. He's normally a high batting average guy, and if he can hit for power that's icing on the cake.
Cue Kalkman:
The Book says the #3 hitter comes to the plate with, on average, fewer runners on base than the #4 or #5 hitters. So why focus on putting a guy who can knock in runs in the #3 spot, when the two spots after him can benefit from it more? Surprisingly, because he comes to bat so often with two outs and no runners on base, the #3 hitter isn't nearly as important as we think. This is a spot to fill after more important spots are taken care of.
This is entirely counter-intuitive to everything I've ever heard from traditional lineup analysis. It sounds like this spot is wide open, and can be filled in later.
Options: Denard Span, Michael Cuddyer, Joe Crede, Delmon Young
Cleanup:
This is where you put your big power hitter. Being a good hitter isn't necessary, because ultimately power is the number one asset for anyone hitting fourth.
The Book agrees, sort of. Where it differs is in its insistence that the cleanup hitter is one of the three best hitters on the team; where it agrees is that it's the one with the most power. This could be two different players, but luckily for us it's one in the same.
Options: Justin Morneau
Five Hole:
Old School lineups will have the secondary masher in this position, which might be why it's a place where we say Kubel hitting quite a bit last summer. He's your second chance at driving in all those runners you've put on base, should the cleanup hitter falter.
The Book's perspective, via Sky:
The Book says the #5 guy can provide more value than the #3 guy with singles, doubles, triples, and walks, and avoiding outs, although the #3 guy holds an advantage with homeruns. After positions #1, #2, and #4 are filled, put your next best hitter here, unless he lives and dies with the long ball.
The Twins fourth-best hitter, unless he "lives and dies" with the home run? This could be a number of guys, depending on regression, stagnation or improvement.
Options: Michael Cuddyer, Denard Span, Delmon Young
Six Through Nine Holes:
These are usually your worst hitters, aligned in order of decreasing offensive ability. Hitting last says you're the worst hitter in the lineup, but hell, it probably also means you're the best option defensively for that position as well. Although that compliment is relative, so who knows. Maybe you just suck and there's nobody better because it's a down year. Get off your high horse, number nine hitter!
Kalkman's take from The Book:
The Book basically agrees, with a caveat. Stolen bases are most valuable ahead of high-contact singles hitters, who are more likely to hit at the bottom of the lineup. So a base-stealing threat who doesn't deserve a spot higher in the lineup is optimized in the #6 hole, followed by the singles hitters.
Options: Carlos Gomez, Nick Punto, Alexi Casilla, Michael Cuddyer, Delmon Young, Joe Crede
Based off what we've been told by The Book, what does your lineup look like? Is Denard Span still leading off? Where are you placing Jason Kubel? Or Joe Crede? I'd imagine The Book would advocate a lineup like this: Mauer, Kubel, Crede, Morneau, Cuddyer, Span, Punto, Gomez, Casilla. Of course that's based off of what we know from 2008, not going forward for this year.
To see what our optimum lineup actually would be for this year, we'll be using 2009 projections by Bill James to plug into Baseball Musings' lineup analysis tool. Here are James' OBP/SLG predictions.
Joe Mauer: .412/.463
Justin Morneau: .362/.504
Alexi Casilla: .329/.343
Joe Crede: .300/.425
Nick Punto: .323/.325
Denard Span: .358/.381
Delmon Young: .342/.437
Carlos Gomez: .310/.379
Michael Cuddyer: .351/.435
Jason Kubel: .348/.489
We'll run three lineups, with alternating outfield options to alleviate my own curiosity.
|
No. |
LF: Young |
LF: Young |
LF: Span |
|
1 |
Kubel |
Kubel |
Kubel |
|
2 |
Mauer |
Mauer |
Mauer |
|
3 |
Casilla |
Span |
Span |
|
4 |
Morneau |
Morneau |
Morneau |
|
5 |
Cuddyer |
Cuddyer |
Cuddyer |
|
6 |
Crede |
Crede |
Crede |
|
7 |
Young |
Young |
Gomez |
|
8 |
Gomez |
Punto |
Punto |
|
9 |
Punto |
Casilla |
Casilla |
|
RPG |
5.338 |
5.431 |
5.156 |
Baseball Musing's lineup analysis tool doesn't take into account anything except on-base and slugging percentages, which are dependent on James' own projections, but in spite of those things we still see that the lineups that score the most runs in each of these three scenarios are still drastically different than what we see any day of the season. In a debate that won't be dying anytime soon, it's another debate on the tongue's of baseball purists and number crunchers alike.
It's an interesting contrast, although I agree with Kalkman when he says that lineup construction is something to live or die by. More than lineup construction, it's the players available that will ultimately spell glory or defeat for the offense. Take it for what it is.
0 recs |
29 comments
|
Comments
Interesting
I’m astonished that Kubel is deemed the better lead-off hitter and Span the better number 3 hitter. Not only did Span have a significantly higher OBP last year, but he had significantly lower isolated power. I always thought the book said the lead-off hitter had to be a high on-base guy but power is less important. On the other hand, the number 3 hitter needs a blend of both.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Mar 17, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't see anything in this article
that addresses who (Kubel or Span) would be the better leadoff hitter. I may be missing something, but each of Jesse’s three lineups put Kubel in the leadoff spot. We can’t draw any conclusions about Kubel being a better or worse leadoff hitter than Span by doing this.
I plugged in the following lineup using the same OBP/SLG:
1. Span
2. Mauer
3. Kubel
4. Morneau
5. Cuddyer
6. Crede
7. Casilla
8. Punto
9. Gomez
This lineup, using the 1998-2002 Baseball Musings model, generates 5.012 runs per game. When I swap Kubel and Span (as two of three of Jesse’s lineups do), I get 5.003 runs per game. A slight difference in favor of Span in the leadoff spot, compared to Kubel. Not surprising, considering Span’s higher OBP.
Every one of the top lineups using these players gives Mauer as the leadoff hitter, producing about another 0.1 runs per game.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
That helps. Somehow I got the mistaken impression that the line-ups Jesse suggests were determined as optimal by Baseball Musings. It seems your line-up is closer to optimal. Optimal is having Mauer lead off, but you know Gardy will never go for that, especially with his injury issues related to running.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Mar 18, 2009 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the research in The Book concludes that your best three hitters should be in spots 1, 2, and 4.
So if Kubel is a better hitter than Denard, he gets the leadoff spot.
Mauer’s the best option, although he’s also good in the number two spot, sans GIDPs.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 18, 2009 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We also have to consider that the lineup spots aren't independent
For example, it makes sense to have the highest OBP (Mauer) bat leadoff. However, consider Mauer and our best slugger (Morneau). It makes sense to maximize Morneau’s RBI opportunities by batting Mauer immediately Morneau (fewer AB with bases empty, etc.) It becomes a question of whether any additional opportunities cancel out the additional plate appearances that Mauer would get batting leadoff.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you mean
lineup construction is not something to live or die by?
by DK on Mar 17, 2009 11:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
IMO, not something to live or die by
The Baseball Musings tool calculates about a 0.5 run difference between the “best” and “worst” lineups. This is significant (80 runs over the season), but who would bat Crede-Punto 1-2 and Mauer #9? In reality, we’re talking about a 0.1 run difference between an “Old School” and “The Book” lineup, and that’s not considering speed and anything other than OBP/SLG.
There’s an impact, but I wouldn’t consider it something to “live or die by”. We can see a larger impact due to playing the wrong guys than to tweaks in the lineup, IMO.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Another consequence of your working on running
It would be interesting to set the baseline at the optimal line-up (just based on OBP). Then run an analysis of how speed changes the expected runs per game if you resort the players on a secondary variable of running efficiency (however your define that—perhaps on runs added per game based on net extra bases taken per game or some such measure).
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Mar 18, 2009 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By the book,
the Twins should just bat Mauer 1-9. I wonder how many runs they would score then?
by Old Twins Cap on Mar 18, 2009 1:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hee hee
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2009 2:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll settle for batting him third...
instead of Redmond or Morales #8-9 for too long…
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You could figure the runs somehow...
…but Offensive Winning Percentage already answers the question another way: a lineup of nine of this guy with a typical pitching staff would finish with what winning percentage.
Mauer’s career OWP is .632, which means a lineup of nine Mauers with a typical pitching staff should finish the season something like 102-60.
One other thing to consider — a difference of .01 runs per game works out to about one and a half runs over the course of the season. That’s so small an improvement as to be effectively invisible.
by dwintheiser on Mar 18, 2009 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, I'll give it my shot
Span
Mauer
Kubel
Morneau
Cuddyer/Young
Buscher
Gomez
Casilla
Punto
If Gomez is playing and no Span:
Mauer
Kubel
Cuddyer/Young
Morneau
Cuddyer/Young
Buscher
Gomez
Casilla
Punto
I however expect we see something more like this:
Span/Gomez
Casilla/Punto (shudder)
Mauer
Mornaeu
Kubel/Young/Cuddyer
Kubel/Young Cuddyer
Buscher
Comez
Casilla/Punto
Not really optimal there. One thing to notice about the three lineup numbers run is the Twins are scoring .2 and .3 runs more per game without Span and Gomez in the lineup at the same time. is their defense worth that much? That’s about 40 runs over the course of the season, 4 wins or so.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Mar 18, 2009 2:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Span and Gomez defense
Considering that Gomez is about a +15 UZR and Span about a +10 UZR, it’s not a stretch to say that replacing Span-Gomez with Young-Kubel (about -15, -10 UZR) could be a 50 run difference over an entire season. Worse if you consider Young playing CF would lower the UZR even further.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you bat Mauer first
you’d minimize his annoying habit of GIDPs
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Mar 18, 2009 3:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Good stuff. One reason I enjoy writing saber-slanted articles is that I hope to read team-specific articles that follow the same lines of thought.
So thanks.
I find it’s useful to rank the hitters in terms of offensive talent. Using CHONE and runs created above average per 150 games:
30 Joe Mauer
25 Justin Morneau
10 Jason Kubel
6 Delmon Young
6 Michael Cuddyer
-5 Joe Crede
-5 Denard Span
-14 Alexi Casilla
-21 Carlos Gomez
Mauer, Morneau, and Kubel are the best three hitters. Morneau is the obvious power guy, so he goes fourth. Mauer’s has less relative value wrapped up in homeruns than Kubel, is a GIDP fiend, and is a better baserunner (I assume), so he goes leadoff with Kubel second.
The next two best hitters are Young and Cuddyer. Cuddyer has more value wrapped up in homeruns, so he goes third, with Young fifth.
Crede and Span are next. Crede is all power, Span is all OBP and speed. You want speed guys in front of singles hitters, which Crede is not, so I’d put Crede sixth and Span seventh.
Then Casilla eighth and Gomez ninth. If there was a tenth spot, that’s where Gomez would go. If Casilla were better, in the -5 run Span/Crede range, you’d think about Gomez eighth, actually, like with the pitcher. He gets on base so infrequently that you’re hurting Mauer’s value. But since Casilla isn’t much better, it’s more valuable to have the better hitter hit a bit more often.
So:
Mauer
Kubel
Cuddyer
Morneau
Young
Crede
Span
Casilla
Gomez
Have I made any bad assumptions?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 18, 2009 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Uh, I guess Punto needs to be in there in favor of an OF, huh?
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 18, 2009 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, no, no...
We’re moving Cuddy back to second!
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Mar 18, 2009 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think there are any bad assumptions
but there is a limitation to solely looking at runs above average. Batting Mauer leadoff is, IMO, suboptimal in a couple ways. First, batting behind Punto-Gomez minimizes his RBI opps and much of his projected .463 slugging percentage. I’d rather see Mauer behind one or two table setters. Second, batting Morneau right behind Cuddyer and Kubel’s .348 and .351 OBPs, two batters removed from Mauer’s .412 OBP will mean a lot fewer RBI opportunities for our best slugger.
Honestly, based on these considerations, not considering a desire to split up lefties and righties, I think the optimal top five would be:
1. Span
2. Mauer
3. Kubel
4. Morneau
5. Cuddyer
…
Small changes, but Span and Mauer are our two best OBPs, you improve Mauer’s RBI opps by switching him and Span, then you have our three best remaining sluggers at 3-5. A good argument could be made for Kubel at #2, but RBI opps would be lost due to proximity to the 8-9 hitters.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Four lefties in a row is a bad idea. Even two should be avoided, although it's not really possible with Mauer/Kubel/Morneau
I think it depends what you expect out of Span. If he OBPs .400, then yes, he’s the leadoff guy. If he OBPs .350, as CHONE projects, then he’s really no better than Kubel in the leadoff spot.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 18, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, these are all minor differences. It won't matter much.
Beyond the Boxscore // Calling BJ Upton lazy is lazy.
by Sky Kalkman on Mar 18, 2009 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep
Fortunately, Mauer hits lefties well enough that we almost bait opponents to bring in a lefty during the late innings.
I don’t expect Span’s OBP to end up in the .400 range, but I do expect it to be at least 20 points better than Kubel. Combine that with a 100 point difference in slugging the other way, and I prefer Kubel down in the order to drive in runs. Unfortunately, with Mauer and Morneau, this often pushes him too far down in the order, to around 6th.
If Mauer were available opening day, I would go with the following lineup, all things considered (assuming the above OBP/SLG numbers).
1. Denard Span .358 / .381
2. Joe Mauer .412 / .463
3. Michael Cuddyer .351 / .435
4. Justin Morneau .362 / .504
5. Jason Kubel .348 / .489
6. Joe Crede .300 / .425
7. Alexi Casilla .329 / .343
8. Nick Punto .323 / .325
9. Carlos Gomez .310 / .379
Cuddyer and his .351 OBP can break up the lefties at the top of the order. I know why Gardy bats Casilla #2, but his OBP kills too many innings before we even get to Mauer or Morneau. Better to have him, Punto and Gomez running wild, manufacturing runs at the bottom of the order, IMO. When Delmon plays, if he’s replacing Span I move Mauer to leadoff, followed by Cuddyer, Kubel, Morneau and Young. If he’s replacing Kubel or Cuddyer, he steps right into their slot in the batting order. If he’s replacing Gomez, I’d split up Morneau and Kubel.
If I were king for a day.
by Adam Peterson on Mar 18, 2009 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pirahnas
“Better to have him, Punto and Gomez running wild, manufacturing runs at the bottom of the order, IMO. ”
Back to the days of the pirahnas.
by montanatwinsfan on Mar 19, 2009 8:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bad assumptions
1. Assume, for the sake of argument, that I am a woman
2. Let’s assume that the Twins lose 162 games
3. We assume that the Twins cut Joe Crede and sign Tony Batista to play third base
I could go on and on. There are bad assumptions. I agree though, that Sky’s assumptions are not bad.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Mar 18, 2009 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant to say that Sky's assumptions aren't bad...
by Adam Peterson on Mar 19, 2009 8:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, just trying to lighten it up around here
Not exactly coffee-spitting humor, I admit, but you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take, to paraphrase Gretsky.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Mar 19, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hehe
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Mar 19, 2009 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assumption #1
Gardy won’t care and we’ll continue to gripe about it.
Visit my D2 Baseball Blog - Northern Sun Baseball
by FishingMN on Mar 20, 2009 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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