That's one piece of the puzzle
by Johnny Safron on May 6, 2009 1:30 PM EDT
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Casilla had to go. Too many mental mistakes, too lousy at the plate.
Now to move Skates Young out of there. He has as many errors (2) as extra base hits, and in 700 PAs with the Twins the guy who is supposed to provide right-handed punch has about the same SA as Matt Tolbert.
And Skates is an absolute clown in the field. Gomez to center, Span to left. Cuddyer to lose 5-8 pounds.
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The Twins' second base problems...
…stretch back to when they were the Washington Senators’ second base problems. Second base for this franchise has been a problem far more often than not.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on May 6, 2009 6:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Besides Carew and Knoblauch, who else has had a good career?
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on May 6, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If by "career" you mean two sorta good years...
…it’s a grand list.
Carew built a dynasty there by Twins/Senators’ standards, but remember he finished his last three seasons in Minnesota at first.
Bernie Allen had two OK years.
Rob Wilfong had one nice season.
John Castino had one OK year there.
Tim Teufel, another 2 OK seasons.
Todd Walker would get credit for one fine offensive season there among this bunch.
Luis Rivas would be considered to have turned in two decent seasons there in most quarters, but not on this board, of course.
Luis Castillo limped through two seasons that would be considered better than “capable” by Twins’ standards.
Second base has been a chronic problem for most of the Twins’ tenure, and that was also the case in Washington before they moved here.
After Carew and Knoblauch, you would have no candidates as backups for second base on the all-time Met Stadium and all-time Metrodome teams who turned in as many as three adequate seasons there.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on May 6, 2009 11:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's what I thought
My criterion is at least four years above league average. Most of the guys we’ve had over there since Knoblauch have had fewer than one good year. And some of them were decent players before they came here, or decent players after they left. Teufel and Walker were decent players for a few years after the Twins got rid of them for chump change.
I remember the excitement when we signed Wally Backman. He was supposed to be the answer. Rumor has it, when he got here, he rolled into the clubhouse and headed straight for the trainers table before even donning a uniform. He was a total bust. He had an OPS+ for the Mets of 117 prior to coming to the Twins. He had an OPS+ of 63 with the Twins. And he had an OPS+ of 117 with the Pirates the year after leaving the Twins. Tell me that’s not some kind of jinx.
But the worst one had to be Fred Manrique. I took my mom to a game in which he let two grounders go through him and scoot all the way up the gap to the baggie for inside-the-park homers in the same game. The guy makes Brendan Harris look like Dustin Pedroia.
It’s ironic that Rivas was the closest thing to meeting my criterion besides Knoblauch and Carew. Four of his five full years here featured OPS+ of around 80. That’s about replacement level. A few more walks a year and he’ would have made the cut..
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on May 6, 2009 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivas also played pretty subpar D though.
It’s sad that a below average defender, replacement level hitter could represent our third best second baseman with more than a couple years played here. Castillo was fond memories, before he fell off, though.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on May 7, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rivas never had anything that anyone could call even an average season while with the Twins, or ever actually.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on May 7, 2009 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
He was replacement level, as I said, with bad defense, as you said. But he still came closer to having four decent seasons than anyone since Knoblauch. That’s a sad commentary on Twins’ second basemen.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on May 7, 2009 1:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on May 7, 2009 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Second basemen...
…are usually the smallest guys on the field, but are subject to considerable abuse from base runners. They don’t age well as a rule, and they don’t seem to have much of a decline. They fall off the cliff. They are also subject to a lot of competition because big-league clubs draft a lot of shortstops who almost immediately are moved to second base because they don’t have what it takes to play shortstop at the pro level. Of course, then they have to learn to turn two from the other side of the bag – if you can’t turn two, you really can’t play second base.
More drafted shortstops are sifted out of the gold pan than stay in it.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on May 7, 2009 12:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very true
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on May 7, 2009 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2B Declines
The rapid decline of players at 2B is probably more to do with the fact that they tend to be more speedster/defense type players, which is a skillset that as a rule doesn’t age as well as more power/patience type guys.
formerly known in these parts as adamb
by ravenfly on May 7, 2009 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When you're smaller than everyone else...
…your body tolerates the abuse a lot less.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on May 7, 2009 8:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Though, to be fair
To be fair, on the other hand, being small has it’s advantages, like being a lot easier on the knees.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on May 9, 2009 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately...
…playing second base is not easy on the knees. So even if your supposition is valid for most people, it takes a hit here.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on May 9, 2009 8:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm just not sure if a rough double play every now and again makes up the difference though. You don't really get taken out that often.
I think what you’re saying is definitely a factor, but imo it has more to do with second basemen mostly being of the type of player that falls of quickly and early.
Not really a major quibble. It’s either one or the other, and they come together, so not a big deal.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on May 9, 2009 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anybody Noticed that Alexi Casilla
is absolutely tearing it up since joining AAA Rochester?
he’s batting .400 something since being there…. I know small sample but still….
is Ingram working with him?
lets see for AAA: Bobby Cuellar (pitching) Riccardo Ingram (hitting) Stan Cliburn (Head man)
^
is that right above? thanks
by SteveHoffmanSlowey on May 13, 2009 3:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I’d like to promote a could of those guys to the big club. Or send some more guys down there to get fixed.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on May 13, 2009 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Casilla's a...
…big-league hitter. He batted .281 in extended big-league play last year. His problem was his head was planted up his ass this season. “Fixing him” required little more than demoting him, which means he gets the message, and gets to face AAA pitching. As long as Tolbert keeps showing that his head is firmly in the game rather than up his butt, and he stays healthy, Alexi will be getting fixed in AAA for quite some time.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on May 14, 2009 10:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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