What to do with Delmon?
by cmathewson on Jun 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT
36 comments
Delmon Young is having one of the worst seasons in Twins history. What can the Twins do about it?
Delmon Young is hitting .257/.289/.293/.581 on the season. He has struck out 47 times against 5 walks in 145 plate appearances this year. He has already grounded into 7 double plays in 40 games. That compares to his league-leading 23 GDPs in 162 games in 2007.
Defensively, he's the worst left fielder in the league, with a -25.7 UZR/150. And he's not getting any better. Recent quotes from the manager indicate that he'd rather look at film than work with the hitting coach. Every baseball evaluator who sees him has said the same thing: He takes all his power away with his flat-footed appraoch and his plate discipline is going in the wrong direction.Today he struck out swinging twice on a combined seven pitches and grounded the first pitch for a double play in his other at bat. That is the very definition of futility. Anthony Swarzak had a better approach at the plate today, and he hasn't hit since high school five years ago.
If this continues for a full season, it will go down as the worst full season by a regular Twin in team history. With all the Twins have invested in him, they can't just let him go. And he's out of options, so they can't easily send him down. They could possibly try to put him on the DL with some sort of psychological disorder based ion the grief of his mother's rather sudden passing. But with each passing day, the legitimacy of that kind of move goes down. And he has zero trade value. So what can the Twins do?
For the present, Delmon can't even ride the pine because of Denard Span's and Michael Cuddyer's injuries. Even if they put both those players on the DL and called up, say, Jason Pridie, Delmon would likely get a lot of chances to strike out and hit into double plays while letting outs fall in the field.
At some point, the Twins will have to do something. They can't let him have the worst season in Twins history by a position player. They have too much invested in him. If they try to DFA him now, and he's claimed, they are basically saying they traded their best pitching prospect since Johan Santana for nothing.
But he's not making any adjustments. Clearly his problems are not just physical. Is there any chance they can put him on the DL and give him a rehab assignement in AAA so he can get his swing and his confidence back?
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In 1992...
…Andy MacPhail traded Paul Sorrento just before the season began, because the team had too many first basemen. Kent Hrbek promptly got hurt and suddenly Gene Larkin was the opening day first baseman.
What some of us learned from that is, "Just when you think you’ve got too many of something…’
In 2009, the big spring training buzz was what to do with all the Twins’ outfielders.
But almost from Day 1 this year the Twins have never really had four outfielders for one reason or another, and now the Twins are so short of outfielders that their DH is playing outfield, and another guy who hits like a middle infielder has to play outfield.
Maybe some more people have now learned that “Just when you think…” thing.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Jun 14, 2009 12:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tell him to go home and sit on the couch and watch film then
by Zoxide on Jun 14, 2009 1:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For those of you scoring at home...
…Delmon’s first half of this season has been worse than the first half of the ’07 for Jason Tyner.
Or the second half of the ’07 season for Jason Tyner.
That’s right: Jason Tyner was a better baseball player in 2007 than Delmon Young is now.
Yew.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Jun 14, 2009 1:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
With Cuddyer and Span out...
They don’t have much of a choice at the moment. They have to keep putting him out there.
by JonathanR on Jun 14, 2009 1:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You just never know what could happen either
Last year he was awful and then actually picked it up in June and had a .790 OPS the rest of the season.
His career OPS+ by month
April 75
May 85
June 112
July 124
August 112
September 100
He also just ended a 7 game hitting streak where he went 10/27 and sadly he only had one double in those ten hits and struck out 8 times as well. However, I’ll take it over what he did in April and May,
I’m not trying to be a Delmon apologist but I say at least see how he does here this next month or so, maybe he’ll pick it up and at least be decent. Right now that’s all we can hope for.
Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?
by halfchest on Jun 14, 2009 2:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Once
Once they get Cuddyer and/or Span back I say you bench him. hard. He doesn’t start a game unless he absolutely MUST due to injury or dire rest need, he doesn’t pinch hit unless it’s a pitcher up (why WOULD you want him to pinch hit anyway). He doesn’t get unbenched until he works with Vavra repeatedly. Really works with him, and actually takes it o heart.
Until then, he gets as little playing time as Gardenhire can manage to allow him.
Before they do this, they could also bring him into the office and allow himself the chance to go on the psycho DL.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
by AdamOnFirst on Jun 14, 2009 4:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I took a look at his splits
There really is very little to be optimistic about.
Last season, his good months—June and July—were driven by an abnormally high BABIP, whereas his bad months had normal BABIPs. He’s always had high BABIP, but it’s actually a career high this year, and he’s still awful.
The plate discipline has absolutely cratered. His strikeout % is up, his walk % down. His pitches per PA isn’t down—-only because he’s swinging and missing more.
The power is non-existent. Of course, he didn’t hit any homers the first two months last year either, but 3 XHB? (And, fun fact for you: he has 0 extra base hits at home this year. That’s right, his ISO at home is .000).
Ultimately, with the injuries and the roster, he almost has to play this week. But in a healthy world, I don’t see how you can run a corner outfielder out there who has 3 extra base hits on the season.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 14, 2009 8:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and as for the idea to DL him...
I believe a player has to agree to go on the DL, at least in this situation. Not clear that he would do that. Plus, as milquetoast as the league is about confronting teams, at some point they aren’t going to allow players to go on the DL for being lousy.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 14, 2009 8:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You never know
The dude just lost his mom. I don’t know about all y’all out there, but insanely paid professional or not, some people are just going to take that really, really hard. It may take months (or years) for him to get over that. If Delmon’s still trying to figure stuff out after his mom died, on top of trying to figure out why he’s worse than Jason Tyner, he might gladly accept a stint on the DL to just get some time and space to work things out. I’m sure he’s aware of where he stands, and if not, he needs a new agent to say the least, because he is killing any new substantial (or even insubstantial) contract possibilities with every at bat.
Having said all that, if this is about his mom, I hope for the best for him. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
Having said that, this is baseball, and I haven’t kept tabs on how Pridie’s doing. Is he the best call-up at this time? I’m kinda gettin’ an itch to let our younger, more talented prospects come up and play instead of guys who are replacement at best players. I suppose you could say Swarzak fit this bill, but Gleeman’s points on him are hard to ignore. Morales fits this bill, at least as a hitter. I just wonder if now’s not the time to infuse some youthful vigor and hunger into this team—less Casilla and more Tolbert in attitude (and hopefully talent). Does that make sense? Any outfielders fit this bill?
"Come on Eddie, let's get serious."
by biggity2bit on Jun 14, 2009 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. There really aren't any talented outfielders
waiting for their chance at AAA. Or AA. Luke Hughes, maybe, but he’s hurt. Pridie’s been terrible this year. Tolbert is actually significantly older than Casilla.
Their major league ready prospects are pitchers. There really isn’t a position player they could promote.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 14, 2009 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny
that you’re calling for youth to replace Delmon Young, whose biggest problem is that he’s just a dumb kid.
by Evan Nelson on Jun 14, 2009 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
and I can see Delmon publically complaining about the organization if they try to force a DL spell on him with a made up injury.
I believe his last year at Tampa he played everyday and wasn’t crazy when he sat for the first time with the Twins.
They can try it but I can see it be a PR battle.
by caluofmn on Jun 15, 2009 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Something has to change
Young needs to adjust his hitting approach. If he can’t or won’t, then he doesn’t belong on the Twins and probably doesn’t belong in major league baseball.
It is disconcerting that Young would rather study film than work with the hitting coach. Apparently, he would rather talk to his dad about hitting than Vavra.
I guess if I’m the Twins’ brain trust, I have a meeting and say “you’re gonna start doing things our way”. “You will get your playing time as long as we see progress” and leave unsaid that they will demote him if he doesn’t improve.
Since Young is worthless as a bench player, it isn’t fair to anyone to bench him. Let him play until the All-Star break and if there’s not tangible improvement in both his production and his attitude, DFA him. Maybe he would get a wakeup call if no one claimed him, but the Delmon Young who has played for the Twins for 8.5 months is not very valuable.
by Alexi Casilla All-Star on Jun 14, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I guess if I’m the Twins’ brain trust, I have a meeting and say "you’re gonna start doing things our way". "
Worked with Morneau, who used to listen to his daddy. He got a lot better once he quit listening.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Jun 14, 2009 10:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DFA
If he was DFA, who would claim him?
What team needs a light hitting, weak defensive outfielder who can’t pinch hit?
For certian, no NL team would take him.
by clutterheart on Jun 14, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Potential
would be enough for a few teams to claim him.
by Adam Peterson on Jun 15, 2009 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a serious post?
lot’s of hyperbole leading to a suggested answer.
I hope your next one is on Liriano, with a similar slanted poll.
Liriano hasn’t been major league quality in almost 3 years, and for roughly 2 months at that.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
by the Dragon on Jun 14, 2009 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You might think that Young should be given more rope, and that's fine
but your post is totally inaccurate. Liriano was certainly major league quality last season. Delmon Young has never been the quality of a starting corner outfielder in the major leagues.
What hyperbole? Everything CMath said in the diary seems accurate to me. He certainly got the numbers right. And it would be the worst season in Twins position player history at this pace. He’s really terrible.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 14, 2009 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hyperbole?
Dragon;
Do you know the definition “hyperbole”?
I don’t see any in there. Maybe you could provide examples instead of sending out potshots.
by clutterheart on Jun 14, 2009 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nevermind
I guess I found one:
“Anthony Swarzak had a better approach at the plate today, and he hasn’t hit since high school five years ago.”
Pretty funny though.
That’s gold Jerry. Gold!
by clutterheart on Jun 14, 2009 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liriano was very good last year
After his call-up last year, he was 6-1 with a 60/19 K/BB ratio in and a 1.18 WHIP 65 innings. That was after going 10-2 with a 3.28 ERA and a 113/31 K/BB ratio in 118 innings in Rochester. You could make an argument that he was the organizations best pitcher last year.
What happened this year? He got his mid-90s velocity back and he thought he could blow people away like he had in 2006. When he realized he had to hit his spots and get ahead of hitters (as he did routinely in 2008), he started to pitch better. His last two starts, he has a 3.0 ERA with 12 Ks in 12 innings.
The difference between Delmon and Liriano? Delmon refuses to work with coaches to get better. Liriano is working with coaches to get better. If Liriano had not improved in his last two starts, I probably would write a what to do about Liriano? article. The answer would be to option him back to Rochester to work with Bobby Cuellar and keep Swarzak in the rotation. Unlike Delmon, he does have an option left. That’s not as interesting of an article because the solution is easy. With Delmon, there are no easy solutions.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 14, 2009 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Delmon Young is having one of the worst season's in Twins History"
My apologies…I realize there is NO hyperbole there.
I’ve followed this franchise since 1957. I did get a good laugh at the headline, and expected a humor piece, I guess that explains my reaction.
Does Delmon have problems? Absolutely! Are they solvable? Who Knows.
I seem to remember a former Twins pitcher that many thought to be the best in baseball, myself included. BUT for his early years, he forgot to read the memo that the season actually started the first of April rather than July1.
I am not a stats person like most here, so underperforming a corner fielder is a quite useless stat to me.
Fox example, from a stat perspective please explain yesterday’s loss. “Mendoza” Punto, manages to sieze the situation and drive in the 1st run (stat’s probably list that as impossible). “Lost in Space” Carlos, hit’s the tying homer (stat’s probably put that as near impossible). Joe Mauer who statistically had a fabulous day…except when it mattered in the 9th, 1 out and a runner on second, and proceeds to pop out to the SS (that did happen to be a better outcome than the potential double play, I guess), MVP follows, and grounds out (stats probably say he should done better). IF the “Big Money” guys had executed like :Mendoza" Punto or “Lost in Space” Carlos, Crain never sees the light of day.
Moral of the story…Stat’s CAN BE wrong 100% of the time when it matters. ;-)
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
by the Dragon on Jun 15, 2009 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've followed the Twins since 65
We’ve had some bad players over the years. Bombo Rivera comes to mind. But what I said was, “if this continues for a full season, it will be the worst season in Twins history.” Every player in Twins history besides Punto that played this bad was shown the door before they managed to play a full year of such futility. For example, Rondell White was having a worse season when he was summarily let go.That’s typically the way of it.
Punto had the worst offensive season in Twins history in 2007, but his defense was like 20 UZR, so he makes up for it. Delmon’s season is slightly better than Punto’s was offensively, but his defense is -25 UZR/150. Punto was on a pace to match Delmon offensively this year, but he was about break even defensively (UZR wise). So he was only on a pace for the worst offensive season by a Twins shortstop in history. Not the worst year in Twins history.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2009 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Delmon’s season is slightly better than Punto’s was offensively"
slightly
One entry found.
Main Entry: 1slight
Pronunciation: \ˈslīt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Middle English, smooth, slight, probably from Old English sliht- (in eorth-slihtes level with the ground); akin to Old High German sleht smooth, slīhhan to glide — more at slick
Date: 14th century
1 a: having a slim or delicate build : not stout or massive in body b: lacking in strength or substance : flimsy, frail c: deficient in weight, solidity, or importance : trivial
2: small of its kind or in amount
Source Miriam Webster.
If you say so.
Maybe you might look back to JUST before Delmon’s mother died. An idoit like me thought that he was turning the corner. And heck, having one’s mother die SHOULD NEVER screw with an already head case.
Look you write the non-judgmental headlines, I obviously screwed-up in reading it as it was written.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
by the Dragon on Jun 15, 2009 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slightly
54 is slightly better than 52.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2009 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bombo
By the way, Bombo is widely regarded as the worst outfielder in Twins history. In his first season, his OPS+ was 101, which is about average. In his second year, it was 90. In his third year, it was 60 after 44 games and he was unceremoniously dumped from a team that had no playoff aspirations. And he was a center fielder with some defensive prowess.
Delmon’s OPS+ is 56 after 42 games.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2009 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some other names (more than 90 games)
Billy Martin 2b (1961: 65
Jerry Kendel 2B (1964): 57
Ted Uhlander CF (1966) : 59
Jerry Zimmerman C (1967): 26
Zoillo Versailles SS (1967): 52
Danny Thompson SS(1973): 51
Glenn Borgman C (1975): 52
Bobby Randal 2B (1977): 51
Lenny Faedo SS (1982): 63
Derrell Brown CF (1983): 64
Houston Jimenez SS (1984) 32
Greg Gagne SS (1985): 60
Tim Laudner C (1986): 65
Steve Lombardozzi 2B (1987): 67
Al Newman 2B (1990): 60
Pat Meares SS (1993): 55
Matt Walbeck C (1994): 37
Matt Walbeck C (1995): 61
Henry Blanco C (2004): 60
Rondell White DH (2006): 66
Nick Punto 3B (2007): 52
With the exception of White and Punto, all the guys with worse offensive years also played premium defensive positions.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liriano
is still well above replacement. Delmon is far below replacement. That’s why the article is about Delmon.
by Adam Peterson on Jun 15, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would frankly rather have Delmon on the staff than Jason Pridie. Pridie is horrible and his numbers have shown it.
by 33MorneauMVP on Jun 14, 2009 6:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
His raw numbers don't tell the whole story
His LD% is 25 but he only has a .288 batting average on balls in play. SO he’s been really unlucky. He was the best outfielder in the IL last year. He could help off the bench.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 14, 2009 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Come on CMath
he went ,270/.305/.435 last year. That isn’t the best outfielder in the IL. His OPS is barely .600 this year.
by Eric in Madison on Jun 14, 2009 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was just relying on what Stan Cliburn said
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 14, 2009 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Correction
“They have too much invested in him. If they try to DFA him now, and he’s claimed, they are basically saying they traded their best pitching prospect since Johan Santana for nothing.”
Not sure how Santana is related, being that he was traded for Garza and Bartlett.
by tandersonoo7 on Jun 15, 2009 1:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Garza is the best pitching prospect we had since Santana
That’s how he’s related.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jun 15, 2009 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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