Twinkie Town History: July 1

by Jesse on Jul 1, 2009 6:48 AM EDT in Quick Hits Comment 6 comments

June is already done and dusted for 2009, and the baseball season is halfway through its ownership of months for the regular season. For your browsing (see: wasting time at work) pleasure, we're looking back at what we were doing on the first of July in years past.

July 1, 2008: Relief Failure

Categorized by ERA+, looking at the Twins' top 20 relievers since 2001.

July 1, 2007: Castillo Redux

Cmathewson ponders Luis Castillo being called an All-Star, hoping the Twins choose not to re-sign him.

July 1, 2007: Vote for Pat!

With Justin Morneau, Johan Santana and Torii Hunter already on the All-Star team, Jon Marthaler encourages us to vote for Pat Neshek in the Final Vote Ballot.

July 1, 2007: Twins Aquire Garnett From Wolves

The Wolves were looking for suitors, and the Twins needed an athlete. As for what the Pups got in return, there's still no word on whether Glen Taylor has received the second part of his request. The Big Mac, it appears, was delicious.

July 1, 2006: Open Conversation, Projection Poll

Whose projections were most likely to hold up? Those projections are here. Note Jason Bartlett's great start, Nick Punto's best career season, Justin Morneau breaking out and Rondell White barely limping along.

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Neshek deserved some love in 07

now he’ll be lucky to be a back end bullpen guy. I couldn’t believe all of the optimists out here who said Liriano was going to rock 2008. And I was even more shocked that Twins fans were only slightly less optimistic about his 2009 season. Liriano has not done as well as I had hoped for but he frankly has snuggled right into the bell curve of performance for pitchers trying to recover after tjs.

Neshek will be lucky if he can do more than that next year or 2011.

by montanatwinsfan on Jul 1, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Liriano did better

in 2008 than he did in his 2006 rookie season! Look at the stats damn it. Liriano had better numbers in 2008 than his phenomenal season of 2006 but it was obscured.

by 33MorneauMVP on Jul 1, 2009 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So obscured that only you, with your super 3-D glasses could spot it, right?

2006: W-L% .800, ERA 2.16, IP 121, ERA+ 207, WHIP 1.0, H/9 6.6, HR/9 .07, BB/9 2.4, SO/9 10.7, SO/BB 4.5

2008: W-L% .600, ERA 3.91, IP 76, ERA+ 72, WHIP 1.517, H/9 8.8, HR/9 .08, BB/9 3.8, SO/9 7.9, SO/BB 2.09

I’m confused here. Which stats should I look at that somehow will unobscure the fact that Liriano is not the pitcher he was prior to tjs? Really, I am not a “stats” guy so I will keenly await your explanation.

BTW so far in 2009 all of those numbers are worse, quite a bit worse, except for the IP. So he is putting up worse numbers in more innings pitched.

I am not in favor of sending Liriano to the pen yet, I think he still has the ability to be a solid #4 or #5. But the enthusiasm that remained around the fan base regarding his return from tjs was, IMHO, out of whack with reality.

by montanatwinsfan on Jul 1, 2009 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah I'm not sure I see it either...

by Jesse on Jul 1, 2009 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, he didn't

In 2006, when he was healthy, Liriano was the best pitcher in baseball. In 2008, after his stint in the minors, Liriano was a good pitcher. There’s no statistical reason to think that Liriano is anywhere near as good post-surgery as he was before.

montanatwinsfan, you accidentally grabbed Liriano’s ERA+ and WHIP from 2009 instead of 2008 – his 2008 numbers were better (104 ERA+, 1.395 WHIP), although still not nearly as good as 2006, so your point stands.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Jul 1, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs