Off Day Poll: If Joe leaves us...
by Jon Marthaler on Jul 13, 2009 1:00 PM EDT
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PrintSunday's Star Tribune included a long, front-page profile of one of Minnesota's most famous sons: Joe Mauer. (It's not online, at least not yet; I encourage you to try to find a copy of the front page from yesterday.)
Now, Mauer is the blandest quote in team history; "Hey, guys" qualifies as a major clubhouse outburst. As you might expect, Jim Souhan had to talk to pretty much everyone else that knows Joe - parents, grandparents, friends, barbers, Justin Morneau, Mike Redmond - to round out the story.
I'd be surprised if there was a single Twins fan anywhere who disliked Mauer - He's such a nice kid! Modest! One of us! He lives in St. Paul and still sees his family and hangs out with his same friends! He's such a nice boy, that Joe! - so any suggestion that he might leave for another team when his contract is up is generally met with blind terror. And this article wasn't short on such quotes, from Morneau:
"We've been so close at the deadline so many times. If he feels like we're content being that team that is just good enough not to loose, but everybody is going to have to have a career year for us to scrape into the playoffs, I think that's going to affect his decision a lot.
"It's frustrating going out every day and hearing that 'We want to win a World Series,' and then not seeing more aggressiveness. I think something like that is going to affect his decision more than the value of the contract. We've already got all the money we're ever going to need."
So.
It's the All-Star break, which gives us a chance to step back from the day-to-day, and to speculate on the future - in this case, future events that are nearly two years off. Let's say, theoretically, that Mauer ditches Minnesota, presumably for what he feels is a better chance to win (not to mention a mountain of cash). The poll: in this case, who do you blame?
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He will stay for less.
Just not a LOT less and no chance to win a championship. He’ll understand that he can’t get the contract he deserves and win a championship here in MN. There’s not enough money to go around.
However, I don’t think by not making a move this month we can say they’re not trying to win. Let’s be honest, this isn’t a team that’s one player away. If Liriano was having a good year, if Delmon Young was hitting… maybe then you could make the case that we’re a 2B away from contending for a WS. Not right now. I’m more interested in can these guys make a run at the playoffs with this roster, and then what will the reaction be in the offseason to build off of that.
"You should enter a ballpark like you enter a church." - Bill "Spaceman" Lee
can we add a third one
I’d blame Mauer for leaving if he goes some place like the Yankees or Boston. I expect that from those teams but not from you Mauer.
But I’d also blame the administration for letting one of the best players (and who should be the last one to wear 7 on the Twins) in our franchises’ history walk in the prime of his career.
We need a blame both and burn down the new stadium option.
It will clearly and unquestionably be management's fault
Pay him what he deserves. No small-market whining. You did enough of that to con your way into a new stadium. It stops now.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 13, 2009 1:18 PM EDT reply actions
Honestly
Brutally honestly….a good team decides right now what they are going to do with Mauer. Our 2 choices are:
1. Sign him long term no matter what
2. Anything Not #1
If we’re not willing or able to do #1, we should trade Joe Mauer. Not a deadline deal next year either.
Excellent point in your last line.
If this team selects number two, for whatever reason, can you imagine the public backlash? I don’t think the organization can safely do anything other than number one unless they’re happy to be permanently condemned as that-team-that-makes-bad-decisions-always.
How would current players feel if this team didn’t sign Mauer? How would potential free agents see this team if they didn’t sign Mauer? I just don’t see how they could every choose number two, and think it’s in the best interest of the franchise.
I’m going to have to agree with this. Mauer and Morneau ARE the face of the Minnesota Twins right now, and since Morneau’s already signed up for a while now, we need to keep Joe. The hometown bit does factor in pretty big, I think. At least, I hope. Bottom line, he stays, he will be a Minnesota hero for life. I really, really hope he stays.
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. -Bull Durham
I think (hope) Mauer will stay
Assuming, of course, the Twinks make him a reasonable deal. With the extra revenue they expect from Target Field, and the fact that Bill Smith would be the most hated person in the state of MN if Joe leaves, they’ll sign him.
Plus he is a god here, in NY or LA he’s only as good as his last game. His family lives here. And his ex-roomie, Morneau, is a big influence on him and will probably push Joe to stay.
I think (hope) Mauer will stay.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jul 13, 2009 1:38 PM EDT reply actions
Money
The late Carl Pohlad was worth well over $2 billion, so how about a best of both worlds sort of thing?
The twins had an opening day payroll of $65.3 million, a healthy jump from last year’s $56.9 million opening day payroll, but still 24th out of 30 in the league.
The twins are a small market team, so they will never make massive amounts of money from tickets or any of that, especially since the target field holds around 40,000 or so. However, i believe they can make enough money to not lose money with maybe an $80 or $85 million. The owners have enough money to push it up. Some of that money could be spent on giving Mauer the deal he deserves (or one that is close enough to the other offers that he’ll stay anyway) and it can get a few more people to boost the Twins to be playoff contenders. If Mauer left, he could easily get a $200-$225 million deal. No doubt. The yankees and red sox both have catchers who are in their late thirties. Just between those two, they would push each other up past $200 million. The Twins could probably afford a $150-$160 million deal with a bigger payroll, and also add a couple players.
Or… this route might sound crazy, but he has one year left next year… deal him after this season for a bunch of prospects. Now the problem with prospects is they are just prospects and not proven like he is, so the twins would need to get a few very good prospects for it to make sense. However I doubt this will ever happen. The PR damage from trading him would be horrible plus he’s one hell of a player.
The whole point of the new stadium—as sold to the public— was to be able to retain the franchise players. This is probably the first and biggest test of that rationale.
I think the PR hit the Twins would take from losing Mauer would be devastating. Public trust in the team would be gone and could not easily if ever be regained.
Right now, the Twins are the 5th in the AL in attendance per game (behind NY, LA, BOS, and DET). No doubt this bump is due to people buying season tickets for priority next year.
With this new stadium in place, I think going forward, Twins fans should perhaps consider St. Louis or Milwaukee as a templates for what their expectations might be in terms of payroll if attendance stays high and the team stays reasonably competitive.
by Dale on Jul 13, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
KEEP MAUER NO MATTER WHAT!!
I couldn’t stand it is another Minnesota sports team gets rid of a franchise cornerstone.
Look at what happened to the Wolves attendance they went from 11th in Garnetts prime with the team, but when it became clear that they were not going to try with him and he would be traded they dropped to 25th and 24th after he left and this year 27th.
Now I don’t think this will happen with the Twins, especially with a new stadium, but you hurt a whole generation of fans if you get rid of him in a bad way.
I want to see Target Field on the corner of Kirby Puckett Place (I think they should move the street name) and Joe Mauer Boulevard.
I hope they don't move the street...
Its a hoot that the exit for the Mall of America is Killebrew Drive.
Really? Didn't know that about the MoA
k, I take that back, keep Puckett Place where it is, it could be humorous to see what happens in 20 years there.
Course it is sort of funny that the Vikings will have their stadium on the address of a baseball player’s name.
"Small Market"
The Twins are not a “small market” team, period. With the Metrodome, they are something of a low revenue team, although I think they have managed to fool a lot of people on that front even so. But the market itself is a good one, either 1st or 2nd in the AL Central, depending on how you look at Chicago (huge market, but dominated by the Cubs).
Ownership and management love the “small market” label because it lets them off the hook for trading away key players and otherwise being unduly spendthrift. But I hope they realize that Twins’ fans will not fall for this when the new stadium opens. Twins fans are pretty smart in general but the team also spent years and years explaining how the Metrodome was to blame and a new stadium would make a huge impact.
Losing Mauer would be more than devastating… it would cost the Twins so much that signing Mauer is actually the cheaper route, if ownership has even a bare minimum of foresight. There are ZERO circumstances under which Mauer should be traded or otherwise allowed to leave the franchise. This is one of those issues that is just black and white- sign Mauer, or cripple the franchise.
the
the Twins Cities is something like the 14th biggest media market in the US. Add in folks that come from the Dakotas, Iowa, Wisconsin, Canada, and wherever (Montana/Nebraska, theres gotta be a few) the Twins are probably a little larger than 14
small market they are not, low revenue/cheap is a better phrase to use for the Twins
by DedicatedFollowerOfFashion on Jul 13, 2009 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
On thing
One thing with the Twin Cities is the number of options, though. They are one of the smallest couple markets by a lot to be supporting all four major professional sports and a major conference athletic program. Not to mention four major casinos within easy driving distance, and there is a lot of competition for entertainment dollars in Minnesota you don’t see everywhere.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
Fatalistic mindset of Twins fans is annoying...
So much fixation with Mauer leaving and not enough enjoyment of his presence.
When he hits a homer or makes a magazine cover, I get the impression there’s more panic about visions of him in the Bronx than there is celebration that he’s done something well. Now he’s made the all-star game again… “oh no! We’ll never resign him now!” Ugh…
Can’t we wait until wait until the off-season to panic about these things?
I have figured it out. I know how to keep Mauer
Move the left field fence in to 290 ft at Target Field. He’ll hit .400 and 74 HRs every year. He’ll have to stay.
You’re welcome.
"You should enter a ballpark like you enter a church." - Bill "Spaceman" Lee
Hey, if they Yanks can move in the RF wall, why can't we?
"You should enter a ballpark like you enter a church." - Bill "Spaceman" Lee
If I was Mauer
I would sign with the Twins to a respectable, long-term contract but with the DEMAND that they use the money that the yankees or red sox would have spent on him on signing quality free agents that will make the Twins perennial world series contenders.
Why not have Mauer sign the guys he wants himself?
Then he can lease them back to the Twins. If you let the Twins choose he’ll end up with Mike Lamb, Nick Punto or Rondell White.
It would be best if they give him an ownership stake instead of signing him to a contract.
A return of player-managers, part deux...
Player-owners!
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by Andersklasen on Jul 13, 2009 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The options given...
…cause me to abstain. First, I truly believe that Mauer will be staying and that a nice 5 or 6 year extension will be in place by the first of the year at the latest.
Now should Mauer leave, it will be a mistake by the front office (whom I prefer to not refer to as bozos). I honestly believe that the Twins operate with 50-52% of gross going to payroll (there are lots of questions what is and isn’t included in these numbers) and that management decides how to spend it. Now everyone knows that number will go up next year so lets not throw any stones at the next group of Pohlads. So I guess my objection is lumping the owners and management together and referring to them as bozos.
Should Joe leave, I wouldn’t blame him unless he becomes a much different person next year than the person we have come to know since his days at Cretin.
Waiting makes sense for BOTH sides...
…you folks may not have noticed, the economy is not very good. Are we near the bottom? Is there a lot more downside?
By waiting until the offseason, both sides can see IF things are as bad as anticipated, worse or looking up.
I expect Mauer will sign, at a fair price, something like $20 mil/per for 6 years.
Regards,
I don't suffer from insanity...I relish every moment of it!
How much money do you really need?
This is the point I will be making if Joe moves on once he becomes a FA.
After all, whether he signs with the Twins or another team he will be making more money than any of us will be making in our LIFETIME.
Both sides will have blame if it happens. The owners in baseball and the agents / players union have created this economic world for baseball. And the player at the end of the day can choose to take less to stay with a team.
Depends on what you want to spend it on
If Mauer wants to cure cancer or even buy the Twins he’s going to need a lot more than an MLB career can provide.
I need to make alot b/c I spend alot
I hope I never hear Joe make a comment like that.
But if he has hopes to owner a MLB team or cure cancer or create an army of clones of himself, I hope he has a good busniess plan for life after baseball.
Personally I think when his career is over he will just rise up and disappear into the clouds. MLB will be so changed by him that they will rename hits to joes and in an odd bit of irony they will also rename double plays into mauers.
Probably not fair of me to jump on the money issue as your sole argument but,
Money itself is not the issue. Money itself will not be Joe’s concern. Justin Morneau has recently been quoted as expressing some frustration at the Twins not spending money to get the pieces in place for a chance at a championship. Personally I find that ironic coming from Morneau – nonetheless it is exactly the same frustration that ultimately tipped the scale for Hunter and Santana.
Money was more of an issue for Hunter and Santana I suppose than it will be/is for Mauer, but money wasn’t the only factor. Even if it was who can really blame Hunter for taking 90 million over 40 million? (someone feel free to correct those numbers as I cant remember what the exact figures were, but …)
But I really dont think it was the money that ultimately decided the issue. It was money, and a chance to win, and a chance to be a star in a big market. Hunter and Santana both made those type of moves “up” the corporate ladder (debatable in hindsight I know), but at the time of their decisions I believe that they truly believed it was a move “up” for more money.
Who would turn down a move “up” and significantly more money? Unless you have some type of ownership stake in the business…no one.
Hunter and Sanata did not move from MN to KC for more money, they moved “up” in the world for more money (I use quotation marks because the "up"ness is debatable). Frankly, Mauer has to seriously consider moving “up” to NY or Bos if the Twins org. cant make some kind of assurance that they will spend the hometown “discount” that they expect Mauer will take to stay.
When all is said and done, I think Mauer will place a premium on staying in MN, but to discount the $100 million dollar increase, or the other opportunities involved in a move “up” would be an odd expectation from MN Twins fans, management, or ownership.
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 14, 2009 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
I appreciate you allowing room to debate up-ness
b/c I think not everyone would agree that NY, BOS, or LA is up from Mpls. I know I wouldn’t.
I agree that money won’t be the only issue. I just read the Morneau quote and I find it interesting coming from somone who signed a long term deal with the Twins.
I know this topic has come up alot over the years but it seems like it boils down to a philisophical question. Will the Twins be an organization that will every few years harvest the farm system for a chance at a WS ring, or will they continue to just use the farm to remain good enough and hope for the stars to align?
I think the Twins have it in them to go all in and go for it. I think they won the WS in 91’ partly b/c they saw an opportunity to take a shot. I think this year there are players out there who could play a similar role in a WS run. The rest of the division is flawed enough where this might be a great year to go all in. Could the Twins be like the Brewers last year and make a move for a player like CC, I don’t think so but the nice thing is I also don’t think they need that much more.
This has become an off topic post, sorry. If Mauer does go and he tells Twins fans it’s b/c he didn’t think he had a real shot at a WS ring or the backing of the organization for one, could anyone prove him wrong? I really don’t know.
Bigger Stage
I think most people would agree moving to one of the big coastal cities is a move “up” the social-ladder, or to a bigger stage, or a more noticed place. I don’t think everyone would agree it’s better there though. I know I wouldn’t.
"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane
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