Twins All-Stars Sounding Off

by Jesse on Jul 27, 2009 5:40 PM EDT in News

There's a lot of chatter going on right now, and LEN III's late-morning update on his blog has the most interesting information.

Neal shares two massive quotes from a couple of Minnesota's perennial All-Stars. First, Joe Nathan:

"I think a lot of us think this is a special team we have here and have a chance to go out and do some good things. Getting to the postseason is what you wish for. After that, anything can happen. A lot of us feel like this is a time to go out and do some special things."

As far as soundbites go, that's a pretty fair and even-handed tidbit. Justin Morneau's statement is a bit more intense:

"I don’t know if we are worried about this new stadium or having a good team in the new stadium. If that’s the case, tell us that. Don’t say, `We want to win,’ then don’t show it. Do we want to win the World Series or be the team that has a chance to be in the playoffs?"

Add onto those two quotes the following, also courtesy of the Strib, and it sure sounds like the players themselves are looking to see if the front office is on the same page as they are.

Back to Nathan:

"A lot of times it's not that anyone feels we need something to help this club out, more-so to show that everyone is on the same page and everyone is trying to get better and get over the hump and that everyone is on board with one goal: to get where we need to be.''

"[Tradeing Luis Castillo in 2007] left a bad taste in our mouths. Are we trying?''

"It's important to show the hometown boy that this organization wants to win."

And for Justin for another round:

"You hear about the future, the future. I don't know who gets to decide when that is or when they think that is...You have a core of a lineup that can compete with anyone in the league. One of the best closers in the game. Young starting pitching that might be missing one veteran guy to show them the way...It makes a difference to have someone like that.''

"If we don't do anything this year, I can't see how [Joe Mauer's] going to want to come back and go through this every year."

And finally, from the golden boy himself, Joe Mauer:

"Yeah, there's frustration, but I've learned over the last few years not to try to get my hopes up that we'll have something, then get disappointed.''

"I think Morny and Joe, the guys you talked to, are the same way. They want to win. We want to have chances to win. That's going to be a big factor into my decision. But I don't have to make that decision for a while.''

All of these are loaded, strike that, mega-ton loaded quotes. We're seeing three of this team's stars stepping up and holding this front office's feet to the fire. This raises a lot of issues, but the big one for the moment is this: are the players concerned that this organization runs the team as a business first, with the competetive balance of the team coming as a result of how that business is run? It's hard to argue with the relative success this organization has had this decade, but these guys play baseball as their job. They strive to win, it's why they play. If every star player that comes through is questioning the confidence that the front office has in its players and questioning if they're all on the same page, then a message needs to be delivered one way or the other.

Four days and counting.

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Comments

and they were largely

made out to be villains for doing so. Wonder if the same will be said of these 3

by guinness junky on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

I doubt it

at least by most. There will be some that will want to argue that they should be loyal to the team no matter though.
One thing that is sometimes hard to remember even for me is that these guys are ultra competitive. You’d have to be to achieve what they have in sports. It must go against their nature to stand pat and just hope for the best. They want to win not just now but every year.

It will be too bad if the Twins don’t do what they can to win with these special players.

by caluofmn on Jul 27, 2009 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions

Even Puckett spoke up

Sometimes, especially with this cheap skate franchise, you just gotta call the front office out for not doing it’s job. Offensively, we have one of the better teams we’ve had in years, possibly decades. If we could add some pitching, and maybe a bat we could see a special run.

by Cobra312004 on Jul 28, 2009 3:22 AM EDT up reply actions

Re: Cheap skate franchise.

That’s an accurate at all. They haven’t been conservative with payrolls, considering they’re a business. But they have been conservative when it comes to mid-season trades, which is the actual issue.

by Jesse on Jul 28, 2009 6:41 AM EDT up reply actions

Interesting

That’s an interesting way to look at it, considering the Twins are below their own payroll ‘limit,’ and said limit is pretty low itself.

by drivlikejehu on Jul 28, 2009 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions

It's not a bad limit

for a mid-market team. But they do have room to maneuver, which is one of the reasons I’m hoping they make something happen.

by Jesse on Jul 28, 2009 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions

This is tough

On the one hand, since I agree with them, I say: good for them. Hold the FO accountable. Demand better.

On the other hand, you really don’t want players making these decisions, or really heavily influencing them; players have agendas that aren’t always the best for the organization, and often can’t see the forest for the trees in their position.

by Eric in Madison on Jul 27, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions

I'm on the same page as you I think.

It can create some undo pressure just as well as it can create justifiable and necessary pressure. If other teams think the Twins front office is catering too much to their players while making a deal, they can up their asking price. This kind of thing plays against the Twins trade efforts just as much as it spurs them on.

by Jesse on Jul 27, 2009 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions

Concerted effort?

I guess there’s no way to know, but these quotes make me curious as to whether the guys got together and decided to make their concerns known to the media. I guess it’s possible that the strib just asked the right questions and got all three of them independently to discuss their disappointment, but none of these three guys are prone to blabbing their mouths. If these comments weren’t just off the cuff, I’m curious as to what they hope the ultimate outcome will be. Hopefully the front office listens with a grain of salt.

by dctwin on Jul 27, 2009 6:45 PM EDT reply actions

or asked them all the same questions

by guinness junky on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions

And the Twins are back at .500...almost

Little has changed since this: http://www.twinkietown.com/2009/7/9/943974/and-the-twins-are-back-at-500

You make some moves and don’t give a crap about the guys in the minor leagues. Most of them never pan out. Injury is always a risk, particularly on minor league pitchers. If you have to spend some prospects, that’s what you do. Minor leaguers are chattel. Chips for gambling.

Morneau’s comments about the future are the words of a wise GM.

Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.

by Johnny Safron on Jul 27, 2009 7:12 PM EDT reply actions

I agree to a point

having the Giants be my closest MLB team can color your opinion. For years the Giants gave up farm hands for older players to surround Bonds and they won nothing (but came close in 02)

You need to give some farm hands up but the Twins can’t afford to look at the farm as a bank. The need to more but the question is how much.

The Tigers and White Sox have enough flaws that they should make a real push this year but not every year will be like this one.

by caluofmn on Jul 27, 2009 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions

minor leaguers are not chips

But they can’t be your team either. The Twins and their fans have been waiting for this future we’ve been building for since before Gardy became manager. And it’s amazing that we still put up with it. The fans are on to you Twins and you’ll be hard pressed to fill that shiny new stadium of yours if you let Morneau or Mauer out of town. Showing them you give a crap is the first step in doing that.

If you don’t actually, at least pretend you do or the fans will figure that out too.

by Cobra312004 on Jul 28, 2009 3:27 AM EDT up reply actions

I love that these guys are speaking out

I hope it lights a fire under the GM. We don’t need a slingshot move (Cabrera). We need some .357 Magnum moves, firing a bunch of bullets in the next few days. Let’s aim high and go for it right now.

by ajmargarine on Jul 27, 2009 7:51 PM EDT reply actions

Do you guys think Smith is afraid to make a major move

since he got burned by the Santana and Delmon Young trades? I can’t think of any other major trades Smith has made, so not only do I lack confidence in him to make a smart move I think Smith himself might be more reluctant to try to make a big deal.

by Sheldon on Jul 28, 2009 8:55 AM EDT reply actions

The Twins didn't make many mid-season moves under Terry Ryan, either.

I think this is less about Bill Smith (although it would have something to do with it for sure), and more about the organization being hesitant to move their minor leaguers.

by Jesse on Jul 28, 2009 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions

Mid-season moves under Ryan

These are about the only ones I can come up with, not counting stuff like the Castillo giveaway or the Guardado trade last year:

2001: Matt Lawton for Rick Reed
2001: Mark Redman for Todd Jones
2003: Bobby Kielty for Shannon Stewart

I didn’t like the Stewart trade when it happened, but it ended up being very good. The others, not so much – Reed struggled while the Twins collapsed in 2001 (although he was very good in 2002), and a half season of Todd Jones wasn’t worth Redman, who was an effective starter for a few years.

I’d note that those three moves were in the first three years of the Ryan Era that they were competitive – I don’t know if those moves resulted in him being more conservative with midseason trades, or it was just coincidence that the better opportunities came earlier in the Twins’ string of competitive seasons.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Jul 28, 2009 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions

I also think

that it gets harder to make deals the longer you’ve been a good team. Those ‘01 trades, and even the ’03 trade, were made early on in this turnaround to competetive ball. Once the Twins made a number of good moves—the ones you listed, the A.J. trade, and a number of other minor league moves—the ones that brought in Bartlett, Santana, Casilla, Guzman, Mays…teams start to be a bit more wary. "If the Twins want him, is there something we’re missing?"

by Jesse on Jul 28, 2009 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions

I like your point

The Twins get alot of press about “doing it the right way from the minors to the majors” so I think it is very possible that everytime the Twins ask about a player it causes the other team to take a second and harder look at their farm, or at least ask for more b/c of the Twins interest.

I’m not sure how that applies to established players though. I think the Pirates know who Freddy Sanchez is, they shouldn’t ask for more from the Twins b/c they want him.

by caluofmn on Jul 28, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions

Two of those deals sucked

Reed pitched OK for the Twins, but strapped the Twins on salary for his time with the club. They traded the only top-of-the-order OBP guy on the club for a back-end starter who was overpaid and a pain in the clubhouse. It was no coincidence that the club went into a tailspin after that trade. They had no offense to speak of. You don’t lose your lead-off guy and your number two guy (Guzman) at the same time and expect to win. The Twins were leading the division when they made that trade and finished just above .500.

If they had held onto Redman and found another way to get a reliever to help out (say with Adam Johnson), they would have received the same production from Redman that they got from Reed. And even if they held onto Lawton and let him go to free agency, they would have received two draft choices in return. As it was, they basically traded a young pitcher for an old pitcher and their only top-of-the-order hitter for a washed-up reliever (prior to his miraculous recovery). It certainly did not work out for them in 2001.

If the Twins bat .300 in deadline deals, you can understand why they might be careful.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 28, 2009 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions

Yep

Not only was Lawton their best leadoff guy, but he spent much of the year batting in the #3 spot as well – he’d been arguably their best position player for a couple of years, and he was recognizable enough that he was one of the two players they produced bobbleheads of in the ‘00-’01 offseason (the other was Radke). That trade was not popular with Twins fans.

I was at a game Reed started later in ’01, after the Twins were pretty obviously out of the race. Not only did Reed get booed mercilessly while he struggled, but TK got a standing ovation when he came to take Reed out.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Jul 28, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions

It's hard to say

We don’t know what other GMs are asking for. If GMs asked for guys like Valencia every time the Twins tried to add an extra player at the deadline, it’s no wonder they don’t do a lot of deadline trades.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Jul 28, 2009 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions

Hmmm.....

Justin and Joe and Joe

need to focus on what they have in their clubhouse now and get better with what they have already there…

I don’t see Nathan or Morny or even Mauer taking massive strides to help out those in dire need of a makeover…

I mean its one thing to have Delmon Young sitting there batting .265 and starting to crank out some X-tra base hits … or even Nick Punto who is batting over the mendoza line and starting to give the team some prodcutive AB’s.

but to have Alexi Casilla there batting a few shades over .100 ?
HELLO???? how can’t the M’ and M’ boys not say something to help Casilla out, I mean if they watched him closely for one game they could send Casilla message about something (Stance, Mental approach, hands level on bat) to get back to where he was in 2008

things like that….

by SteveHoffmanSlowey on Jul 31, 2009 1:13 AM EDT reply actions