David Ortiz used steroids??? What?
by wcooley on Jul 30, 2009 12:46 PM EDT
61 comments
The New York Times is reporting that David Ortiz tested positive for steroids in 2003. This is shocking! David Ortiz? The guy who the Twins cut in 2002? The player, as the Twins Geek used to say, who the Twins could not trade for a warm bucket of spit? (gross visual) The man who was constantly hurt, 30 pounds lighter, and looked to be finished? I thought he blossomed, as he claimed, because he was finally away from those mean old coaches in Minnesota who wanted him to hit the other way?
It sure was strange that Ortiz's numbers plummeted when testing became more stringent. He must have lost his hook-up to those mysterious "protein shakes" he admitted to drinking. After all, as Ortiz claimed, the testing was biased against Latin players because they did not understand what they were putting in their bodies. They only read Latin, and steroids are labeled in English and Spanish.
Personally, I owe an apology to Terry Ryan and Tom Kelly. I thought they blew it with Ortiz. Turns out, they just failed to send him to the right street pharmacist.
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Not that shocking
He really took off after he left here and apparently that was because he was using the same stuff Manny was. Now that the testing policy is more stringent, he is off the juice and he is back to the old mediocre David Ortiz. I remember him saying one time that he attributed his success in Boston to doing some things “different” than in Minnesota. I guess that included steroids.
by Sheldon on Jul 30, 2009 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Big Milkshake...
… Definitely.
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by joeiscool12 on Jul 30, 2009 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The circumstantial evidence has always fit
And it got a lot stronger when Manny being Manny included Manny using steroids. It turns out having Manny hitting behind you also including having Manny shooting stuff into your behind.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The lawyers that keep leaking names
should be disbarred.
by DJL44 on Jul 30, 2009 1:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
disagree
it might be slimy, but unless they are violating attorney/client privilege, i have no idea what the basis for disbarring them would be. the players aren’t their clients.
by dctwin on Jul 30, 2009 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sounds like the testing was done under a confidentiality agreement
which means they would be in breach of the agreement. If this is the case then there should be some sort of penalty for those leaking names.
That said, I think the names should be release b/c that is how baseball can finally move on from the steroid era (not steroids)
by caluofmn on Jul 30, 2009 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
penalty = appropriate. disbarment = wildly inappropriate. (sorry, i’m an attorney…i get defensive about this topic)
all the names need to come out at this point, i think. let’s just get it over with and move on.
by dctwin on Jul 30, 2009 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends
I’m speculating they’re taking $$ to leak confidential information. That would be enough for me. I sure wouldn’t hire a lawyer who leaked sealed documents to the press.
by DJL44 on Jul 30, 2009 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's fine
first, it’s speculation and i rather doubt it, and second, don’t hire them then. it’s their reputation they are messing with and they will pay for that. if they are taking money (which would be a breach of the reporter’s ethics as well) there are numerous penalties the bar can dish out rather than disbarment. and they will certainly be risking their jobs as i doubt many employers want someone on their payroll who engaged in that type of behavior. it still doesn’t mean we need to take away their livelihood by revoking their bar admission permanently. regardless, that is a decision up to each attorney’s state bar association.
by dctwin on Jul 30, 2009 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sometimes the lesser penalty has the longest legs
I’d just like to see the full list released already.
by caluofmn on Jul 30, 2009 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wish they would leak them all or none, not this dribble of names
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 30, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's the government right?
I thought I read the Justice Dept. subpoenaed the list from MLB.
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Jul 30, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of agree
Like dctwin said, disbarment is probably a bit much, but while I agree that the leaking of names is a huge breach of ethics (MLBPA only agreed to the 2003 survey testing with the stipulation that it be confidential) and should be punished, there is a certain guilty pleasure in reading these. Unless Michael Cuddyer is on the list.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Jul 30, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Un-f*ck-ing believable
I am with you. I thought the Twins screwed the pooch with Ortiz. He goes to the Sox and becomes a MVP and World Series hero. Thought he just didn’t want to be here, didn’t like the situation, etc.
The Sox should be ashamed. Two of their stars tested positive. They should issue a public apology to all of baseball fandom for their fraudulent championships, for the insult added to the injury that is the steroid era.
I have lost what little respect I had for the game. Baseball needs to clean house, and they need to do it quickly. I have watched my favorite sport (hockey) be criticized for everything from being boring to being a fringe game. If baseball continues to allow cheaters to play the game, break records and win championships, they run the risk of losing even more die hard sports fans like myself.
Big Phony needs to put his Jo-Boo statue back in his locker and start praying.
http://www.hockeywilderness.com
by BReynolds on Jul 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A very bad situation
Do we now question the two titles that the Red Sox have won? If the two best hitters on the Royals tested positive but the team still didn’t win a title it would still be a black eye on the game, but this could be even worse b/c it calls into question the integrity of Boston’s titles.
I wish all the names could just be released already so we know who was taking steroids, even if it’s just a snapshot in time.
by caluofmn on Jul 30, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with questioning or dismissing the titles the Red Sox won
is that, well, their opponents were probably juicing as well.
by Eric in Madison on Jul 30, 2009 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus as fun as it is to take the high road now...
We still aren’t sure there are no Twins on that list. 103 is a lot of names.
by DavidRF on Jul 30, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There could be Twins on the list
just please let it not be Matty LeCroy!
by caluofmn on Jul 30, 2009 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only if road-kill possum is a banned substance
Thank you. I’m here ’til Thursday. Try the, um, possum.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 30, 2009 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He actually brought canned possum into the clubhouse once
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 30, 2009 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
canning is big in some parts of the country
but I thought it was normally peaches or something.
I wonder if he tried to pass it off as spam
by caluofmn on Jul 30, 2009 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is why I can't bring myself to really care about steroids
Do what you want, I just want to see great players play baseball.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Jul 30, 2009 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love it when you call me Big Pho-ny
Ahem Anyway, enough with the steroid talk. Either release all the names and get the tabloid stuff out of the way, or don’t. I hate seeing baseball being tarnished as more names are released as steroid users.
And, for reference in the subject line: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyZVsPHPUvw
Strikeouts are boring - besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls. More democratic. -Bull Durham
by fischean on Jul 30, 2009 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor Papi
You have to feel bad for the Big Papi. He was not a ball player at all until he took steroids and now look where he is. Bad news considering he once said that anyone who got caught using steroids should be suspended for a year. It was good while is lasted Papi.
Don’t hit any branches on your way down.
by twinsfan04 on Jul 30, 2009 3:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You kidding?
I don’t feel sorry for that guy at all. It makes that boys and girls club ad he did look so bad. Maybe instead of showing those kids how to bat, he could have shown them proper needle use?
Ok, that was harsh but no I don’t feel bad for him. He is a multi millionare for playing a game.
by caluofmn on Jul 30, 2009 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I don't feel sorry for him either. Shocked, yes
Like a “Family Values” politician who gets caught cheating on his wife or having a “wide stance” at the airport mens room. I just don’t feel sorry for them.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Jul 30, 2009 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he said a year
I’d love to see a link of this, but I would have sworn he said banned for their career, because they were ruining the game of baseball. Something like that.
by snolls on Jul 31, 2009 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig
It’s his watch. Get rid of him and we’ll call it even.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Jul 30, 2009 9:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
concur
tough situation, but doing nothing is not dealing with the situation. i’m disgusted that this continues to drag on and that fans are always left wondering. Wondering who did what when. Wondering if titles/awards/records should mean anything. Wondering if the HOF has lost all usefulness. It’s a joke.
by dctwin on Jul 30, 2009 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bud Selig gets $18 million dollars a year
in part because he doubled mlb’s revenue in the past decade. How much of that is thanks to steroids? You could probably put a dollar value on it for Bud.
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Jul 31, 2009 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB's revenue might have doubled ...
…- not adjusted for inflation of course – UNDER Bud Selig.
However, HE did not double it.
Hell, even the wildcard concept which has brought more money into MLB’s money clip wasn’t his idea. MLB was discussing that long before Bud was commissioner.
The price of seats plays a role in that revenue. In ‘02 my favorite Dome seats – if in fact that’s even possible to say – were 13 bucks per butt. The price had more than doubled by 2007. That rise far outstripped inflation.
The price of seats at big-league sporting events are supply-demand. Even those with the highest opinion of Bud would be hard pressed to convince anyone that he has power over supply-demand.
There might be some reason Bud makes good money, but it’s not because of his wise leadership.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Aug 1, 2009 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well ok
renewed interest in baseball = increased demand = higher ticket prices
my point was how much of that renewed interest was due to the steroids fueled home run chase? i mean, bud selig is a used car salesman… but even a used car salesman can looks the other way when it means $$$. that’s my only point here.
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Aug 2, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
inflation, for the record
is pretty much 0 in the time period we’re talking about here.
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Aug 2, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Guillen named next commissioner of baseball
"Can somebody in baseball—we’re all begging, people—get that stupid list out and move on," Chicago White Sox manager Ozzie Guillen said. "This is ridiculous; this is embarrassing; this is a joke. Whoever is there is there, get them out, and that’s it."
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Jul 30, 2009 11:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this
I think it’s the Justice Department that’s doing this, which is very annoying to me. The list was supposed to be destroyed according to the players agreement but the US government got it instead, right? I’d like to see these kangaroo Clinton-impeachment charges dropped against Bonds and for the feds to stop milking this situation for… well, whatever it is they’re milking it for.
"I don't care about feelings." - Lou Piniella
by natetheskate on Jul 31, 2009 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Usual Suspects - Everybody
I was looking at the 2003 NL and AL batting leaders on baseball-reference yesterday, and I realized that there was exactly one player on either league’s home run top ten who I’d be surprised to find out used steroids – Frank Thomas, since he was the one active player cooperated with the Mitchell Report. No one else (Soriano, Thome, Sexson, Helton, etc.) would be remotely shocking.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Jul 31, 2009 9:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thome
His power should be diminishing by now if he were on steroids. He has always been a big strong guy. He may have taken steroids, but I kind of doubt it. Maybe I’m just too hopeful.
by Sheldon on Jul 31, 2009 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big and Strong
Its gotten to the point where being big and strong and playing well arouses implications of guilt. This kinda takes a lot of the fun out of being a fan. They’re going to need to release those names. 2003 was a long time ago.
by DavidRF on Jul 31, 2009 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why I want them to release the names, to defend the innocent
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 31, 2009 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading up on this....
Releasing the names sounds like a good idea, but I guess its highly illegal. Sounds like the players themselves may not know if they are on the list.
by DavidRF on Jul 31, 2009 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why don't we hear about prosecuting the leaks?
All things considered, I’d rather have no names. But if we have a few names, we should have them all. Until we do, everyone who had a good 2003 season will be suspect.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 31, 2009 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do know that it's not just good players that took steroids, right?
Anybody remember Juan Rincon and JC Romero?
And if I were a player who took one of these tests in 2003, I’d be really fucking pissed about these leaks. I’m pretty sure it’s rather illegal and no doubt highly unethical for the lawyers to be leaking sealed documents, not to mention absurd that the player’s union actually linked the test results (when confidentiality and anonymity was promised to the players) to players names and also failed to destroy the results afterwards (which was also promised, as the purpose of the tests was only to get an assessment of the percentage of players taking banned substances).
by Mike I on Aug 1, 2009 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody cares if Nick Punto juiced just to stay employed
People care if guys juice and win MVP trophies, World Series titles and break records as a result.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 3, 2009 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm holding out hope that Thome and Griffey are clean
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 31, 2009 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thome?
I’m not so sure Thome is clean. A jaw that big doesn’t just happen, but maybe.
The one I’m wondering about is Pujols. Not because of anything about him, other than his numbers. Everyone with numbers like that has now been turned in for cheating.
And that’s the problem, now we just don’t trust good baseball players.
by snolls on Jul 31, 2009 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What about Morneau then?
I am convinced he is not cheating, but according to the logic that anyone with big numbers today is under scrutiny, he would be suspicious. I just don’t think that logic is fair at all to Morneau, Thome, Pujols, or anyone else. Ortiz was a little different b/c his numbers jumped dramatically and then fell dramatically after testing for PED’s was implemented.
by Sheldon on Jul 31, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dont forget Ortiz's constant nagging injuries that hampered him until he went to Boston.
by montanatwinsfan on Jul 31, 2009 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that he's older now....
…and players with his body type don’t age well.
Guys used to take a while to develop, have a monster five year peak and then crash all the time. George Foster, Frank Howard.
Now when a big guy has that shape to his career everyone assumes they are juicing.
by DavidRF on Jul 31, 2009 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I completely agree...
as there’s no way you can in high confidence attribute Ortiz’s peak to steroids alone. He moved to a hitter’s park, entered his prime, worked with new coaches, etc. And do we know for certain that Ortiz was caught testing positive for steroids and not another banned substance? There’s also the small chance that it was a false positive – even if these tests are accurate 98% of the time, you can expect probably between one and five of the players on the list don’t belong there.
by Mike I on Aug 1, 2009 11:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
That’s exactly what I’m saying. Good numbers, particularly power numbers, make me suspicious. I know think about the dominant pitchers and have the same questions. Pedro, Schilling, Randy Johnson, etc. The ones who put up the crazy numbers all become suspects.
I’m not saying its fair, I’m saying its reasonable without more information. This is why all players unions should be pushing for extremely hard testing, and should offer to do it in return for taking recreational substances off the banned list.
by snolls on Aug 2, 2009 9:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Pharma
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Jul 31, 2009 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, can't conclude Ortiz, or any other Red Sox player took steroids...
The “security staff” did:
BOSTON (AP) A Boston newspaper is reporting the Red Sox fired two security staffers last summer after an investigation into steroid use.
Jared Remy, the son of Red Sox television commentator Jerry Remy, and Nicholas Alex Cyr both told the Boston Globe they used steroids, but denied any knowledge of drug use by players.
The Red Sox issued a statement saying they worked with Major League Baseball in investigating the staffers, but said that investigation is confidential. Major League Baseball said its investigation was “thorough and detailed.”
The Globe says state police confiscated a vial of steroids from Cyr’s car just before last year’s All-Star break and Cyr told police he had bought the drug from Remy.
From Fox Sports, http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9883556/Report:-Red-Sox-fired-2-staffers-in-steroid-probe
by montanatwinsfan on Aug 3, 2009 12:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
HGH
It’s easy to assume that people who juiced in 2003 must now all be crashing back to Earth now that there’s steroid testing. But remember there are still designer steroids that can’t be detected — Bonds was only caught because someone mailed in a sample — and there’s still not test for HGH.
I don’t believe the steroid era is really over. If baseball and the union were remotely serious about PEDs, they would archive blood samples to be tested later, once currently untestable drugs can be identified. That might at least provide some deterrence against designer drugs and HGH. Right now there is none.
by by jiminy on Aug 3, 2009 12:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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