Twins need better performance from [starting] staff
by montanatwinsfan on Aug 5, 2009 11:31 PM EDT
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Was thinking of making this a fanshot as I suspect most of you have already seen the article written by Kelly Theiser over on MLB .com: here, but I figured its been a couple of days since we had a fanpost and there is likely a lot of things to discuss regarding the starting pitching. The article, while fairly well written, had such an obvious topic I couldn't help but comment.
I for one, thought the Twins were set for SP last offseason with 5 strong candidates for a season's rotation. Not that all five were likely to be above average pitchers, but amongst the five, on any given night we had a possible #2 type pitcher taking the mound. Sure none of them are ace material and never will be, but 5 solid consistent #2-#3 pitchers can win a lot of games in the regular season.
However, by the end of May it was looking bad. Even though the Twins starters weren't doing terrible overall, none of them seemed to be able to get through 5 or 6 innings and the bullpen was being taxed. I suspect no one needs a reminder about what that level of exposure meant.
Kevin Slowey, was at one point 10 -2 and -deservedly or not - a legitimate contender for the All Star game when he was DL'd. Those of you who have a skeptic's eye might note that his numbers didn't appear to be sustainable, and that his inflated record included a heavy dose of luck.
Baker and Blackburn are about identical on the year according to "wins above replacement" and "runs above replacement" with both being tied in WAR at 2.2 (also tied at 2.2: Matt Garza) and Blackburn holding a slight edge in RAR at 22.2 over Baker's 21.9. I suspect it has been somewhat merciful for us fans that the two of them have struggled at different times (Baker early; Blackburn lately) so that we always had someone who we could look forward to. I am not sure that either of them is a solid #2 slot pitcher at this point.
And then there are Perkins and Liriano. Y'all might be able to figure out which one is performing worse than the other, but I can't. After tonight's shellacking I'm inclined to say Liriano. Then again, Liriano has been a little more consistent in giving us short outings where he leaves the team trailing...but still in it. And Perkins; for every gem he pitches (and he's had a couple of 8 inning 1 run games), he has had a horrible start where he gets pulled in the first through 4th inning having completely demoralized his team and the fans.
Anyway, according to Ms. Theiser, the starters have been inconsistent, have taken a collective step back from last year, and have had too many short outings where they have pitched 100+ pitches before the 7th inning, even on "good" nights. Some suggest too many innings pitched last year (yep, its in the article); another factor cited is the intentional team philosophy of pitching to contact which has lead to the rotation having "allowed an AL-high 689 hits and the 88 home runs they've given up rank second in the AL." Ouch.
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Folks can bitch all they want to about Livan Hernandez, but when he was on the staff the “youngsters” could feel as though they weren’t “the man.” Now, there is no “man.” Nope, not saying “back Livan.” But that guy could get his ass rocked in an inning and he’d walk of the mound as if he had just retired his 45th consecutive batter. He had a ‘tude. Ain’t no ’tude on this staff.
One thing about Swarzak is he’ll buzz a few batters and he seems to have a little snarl on his lip. Too bad he’s only about 24 and in his first year. A.S. maybe came from a little more of a blue collar background than some of the lads, and that seems to show up a bit in his game.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Aug 6, 2009 1:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What I would like to see...
I think Liriano has to be sent down to AAA because whatever he had he lost it. We need to send him down to AAA because it will give him a chance to relax and work on his mechanics without the pressures of being in the big leagues. And then if he does find himself we bring him back up in mid-September hopefully giving our team a shot in the arm and catapulting us back into the playoffs.
The only problem with this is if we have another starter that we can replace him with, but after watching him pitch this year i really don’t think it can get much worse. eventually Gardy has to say enough is enough let Liriano find himself in AAA and give someone else a shot to try and give this team a little fire.
by mr.right on Aug 6, 2009 2:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it something that can be fixed?
Or is it a result of the surgery? Is he just going to be one of those guys that simply can’t come back?
by MNPundit on Aug 6, 2009 3:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See Dr. Yogi's FanPost
According to PitchFx data, a large part of Liriano’s problem appears to be that he’s lost 3 MPH from his average fastball velocity (compared to ‘06). Theoretically, he should have had the same situation last year when he was good, so I don’t know whether to worry that he’ll need to retool his entire pitching approach in order to be successful again.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Aug 6, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He throws in the '90s
Most people don’t. So it’s not a surgery issue.
That makes it’s a between-the-ears problem. Partly.
The remedy: toss him out in middle relief, let Mauer do the thinking and tell him he’s going to pitch one inning. That’s it. Maybe you’re lying about that one inning, but that’s what you tell him. Tell him to let his motion do the work and huff those fastballs up to the plate.
Granted, telling the guy to let THAT motion do the work isn’t exactly a base of concrete. His mechanics are pretty awful. Still, the less thinking the better for him right now.
AAA isn’t the solution. They need to rebuild him in middle relief, and considering how crappy that is what’s the worse that can happen? The answer: he’ll be as bad as Keppel and Knucksie. I don’t see much of a downside here.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Aug 6, 2009 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you just let him pitch out the year
He needs innings. As painful as it is to watch, he’s an important component to the 2010 team.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 6, 2009 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watching is easy
Catching this madman is the painful part. Maybe it’s a good way to get RedDog to the DL.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Aug 6, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All those hosers who called Mauer a wimp can go eat grass
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 6, 2009 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about the twins is all their starters are about the same the same guys pitching every night it seems.
"If at first you don't succeed - Skydiving isn't for you"
by Zoxide on Aug 6, 2009 6:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's time to get an idea what we've got with Duensing
We might as well replace either Liriano or Perkins with Duensing and see what he can do. He can’t possibly do much worse, and he really hasn’t been given a chance to start regularly.
by Sheldon on Aug 6, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I hope they sign a capable veteran this offseason
They need a guy to anchor the staff and take pressure of the other guys. Fortunately, there are lots of those guys on the market after this year.
I have more confidence that Liriano will turn it around than Perkins. It might take a year like this for him to get back to how he pitched last year. That’s right I said pitched. He come into camp hitting 95 on the radar and said to himself, “I can be like the Liriano of 2006”. Well he can’t be, not in a repeatable way. He has to pitch. And he’ll figure it out. Hopefully he has a handful of good starts to end the year and gain confidence for next year. I see Perkins as the second lefty in the bulpen next year. I think he would be a fine middle reliever.
Baker and Blackburn will be fine. Slowey will come back strong. And Swarzak is a nice guy to have in reserve.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 6, 2009 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have more confidence that Liriano will turn it around than Perkins.
Agreed. But right now Liriano is as bad as a big-league starter can get.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Aug 6, 2009 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's a little strong
You’ve been following the team since it moved here, right? So you can probably think of 50 guys who pitched worse. But I get your point.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 6, 2009 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well rephrase that a little...
Liriano is as bad as a big league starter can get, and still stay in the rotation…
by montanatwinsfan on Aug 6, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mindset of a starter
Do these guys really feel the weight of the team on their shoulders? If so, is that really the best attitude?
I always pictured starting pitchers as being in a bit of a bubble where they only pitch every fifth day and have absolutely no control over what happens in the four days in between. I mean, if Liriano was the fifth starter with Pettite, Wakefield, Livan and Washburn ahead of him should he really feel less pressure than if the four other starters are all rookies? I mean, four losses in between starts or four wins between starts, should it really matter to them?
Tampa had a solid rotation last year without a “proven veteran anchor”. Oakland has had several fine rotations in the past ten years that were very young.
I have no problems with improving the team, but I hope we don’t go out and overpay and inferior veteran so that Scott Baker doesn’t get psyched out by being branded “the ace of the staff”.
by DavidRF on Aug 6, 2009 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I put that wrong
They need a consistent starter. He need not be a veteran, but consistent young starters are hard to come by, as we have seen this year.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Aug 6, 2009 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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