Joe Cristensen's strange logic

According to Joe C., The White Sox are more dangerous without Jim Thome (.864 OPS) than with him. This allows them to play Carlos Quentin (.765), Scott Podsednik (.742), Alex Rios (.716), and Jermain Dye (.820) in the same line-up. By his logic, the Twins are more dangerous without Justin Morneau and with Delmon Young. Your thoughts?

over 2 years ago cmathewson 14 comments 0 recs |

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Could be true if any of those guys had a glove

Thome can’t field, but then neither can Dye or Podsednik. If you can trade out a guy who can’t field for one who can you can make up the OPS difference. Rios is going to play the field regardless. I suppose there is a marginal upgrade putting Dye at DH and playing Quentin in RF.

by DJL44 on Sep 1, 2009 2:30 PM EDT reply actions

I think it's absurd

Thome is the best hitter in the group. Rios has to play. Dye is the second best hitter. So Quentin sits. Thome is better than Quentin as a DH, particularly in a line-up that is very right handed.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 1, 2009 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions

I read Joe C's article...

More to say that a shakeup could be what they need. Not so much that Thome’s production can be replaced, but that maybe the supporting cast (who have been underperforming lately) will shake out of their doldrums with this news.

by dctwin on Sep 1, 2009 2:41 PM EDT reply actions

And I doubt his reasoning

He bases it on one team (the Indians) that played better after losing Martinez and Lee. How’d the Twins fare after they traded Luis Castillo? They sucked because trading a big piece of their team was demoralizing. You have to present a representative sample of teams and show me that, significantly more often then than not, teams that traded their stars fared better after the trade than before. My guess is just the opposite.

In the Indians’ case, they acquired some major-league-ready talent that infused life into the team, not just from Martinez and Lee but from dead weight like Mark DeRosa. So there’s a reason why the Indians are playing better beyond emotion of a clubhouse shakeup. They have better players now. In that, they are the exception to the rule. Typically, teams get low-level prospects, as the Twins did with Castillo, with predictable results.

Joe C. is arguing from an exception to the rule to show that another case will be an exception to the rule. It’s a very weak argument. I for one am glad Manship won’t be facing Thome, who has more RBI against the Twins than any other active player.

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 1, 2009 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions

Ditto

They’re a worse team today without Thome and Contreras. The Twins are still underdogs with the matchups (Manship v Danks, Duensing v Buehrle).

by DJL44 on Sep 1, 2009 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions

Oh, I definitely concur. I think the article looked like a space filler, and I think he’s wrong regardless. I just don’t think he was saying that whoever took Thome’s spot would produce more than Thome did. More of a silly, generalized, “kick in the pants” type argument.

by dctwin on Sep 1, 2009 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions

STrib blogs

Somewhat off topic, anyone else notice the STrib bloggers injecting more and more ego into their blogs? Usually it’s subtle, and it’s just a matter of tone, but they seem almost bitter when the front office does something they disagree with. Maybe it’s my imagination, but it seems like they’ve begun to write more and more like the people in their comment sections.

I won’t complain too much though. They work hard, and the price to read their work is right.

by ben2 on Sep 1, 2009 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

blego? blogo? anyway, blogs and ego

I would put Joe C and LEN3 as some of the least proud sportswriters that I read regularly. Honestly, I have no idea where you’re getting that from. I’d say that they’ve developed more genuine personal voices since starting up the strib blogs, but that’s a function of blogging vs. traditional reporting and I’m quite fine with that.

Besides, let’s be real here. No Minnesota sportswriter this side of Uncle Sid can even approach Gleeman when it comes to ego.

formerly known in these parts as adamb

by ravenfly on Sep 1, 2009 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions

+1

"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot

by cmathewson on Sep 1, 2009 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions

He's saying they're dangerous for these 2 games

I guess that’s more how I’m reading it. It’s almost like now they’re going to try to get us back and play spoiler. I guess that’s how I read it, not that they are necessarily a better team. It does make some sense to get guys playing everyday, it’s similar to the problem we have here. Anyone notice how Gomez/Young played better when Morneau was out because they were playing every day. However the better option would be to get rid of one of our outfielders (Delmon) than to get rid of our defensive liability DH. Just like the Sox should have gotten rid of Dye instead of Thome, or just not gotten Rios in the first place.

Peyton's good but have you ever heard of Jeff George?

by halfchest on Sep 1, 2009 4:05 PM EDT reply actions

white flags

The Sux are pretty obviously waving a white flag on the season. There’s no way that Thome is in their plans for the future. Thus, getting anything of value for him is a win.

If you pitch this season (which the Bitch Sox clearly are), they just got something for nothing. Makes sense to me.

As to Joe C’s point, yeah, I’m not buying that. But it’s hardly news for a guy on the tubes to disagree with a local sportswriter.

formerly known in these parts as adamb

by ravenfly on Sep 1, 2009 5:53 PM EDT reply actions

Still, it's an interesting approach

Kenny Williams wanted to be a seller this season and a buyer for the next one. Get rid of people who probably will be gone next spring, get a little something for them, and in the meantime give up a little something for some decent players who might help next spring. Off-season bidding wars are not as big a concern then. Just a matter of seeing if the approach works.

Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.

by Johnny Safron on Sep 1, 2009 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions