More good facts

by Johnny Safron on Sep 19, 2009 3:21 PM EDT

Twins get their new "most important" win of the season with three rookies in the lineup (and a 23-year-old).
Twins now 10-2 in games Morneau doesn’t start.
Nick Punto in September: .351 BA, .875 OPS. More hits than Morneau in fewer PAs since the All-Star break.
Gardenhire continues his masterful bullpen orchestration: on this streak: 14 innings from the bullpen, 2 earned runs.

Twins won-loss record in player starts so far this year.

Crede 48-39 +9

Mauer 62-55 +7

Kubel 61-56 +5

Young 45-40 +5

Twins 75-72 +3

Casilla 33-31 +2

Cuddyer 68-67 +1

Span 65-64 +1

Punto 51-50 +1

Harris 47-47 --

Gomez 41-42 -1

Morneau 65-70 -5

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Twins now 10-2 in games Morneau doesn’t start...

…with a broken back.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 1:59 AM EDT reply actions

Nick Punto in September:

back not broken.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 1:59 AM EDT reply actions

Punto's not playing first...

Cuddy moved to first… Kubes to the field… Delmon off the pine. So Delmon is getting most of the playing time. Delmon hitting .297/.316/.405 since he came off the pine on Sept 7th.

by DavidRF on Sep 20, 2009 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions

Johnny you sound like you program the Metrodome scoreboard

I saw the same Nick Punto September smoke and mirrors on Friday night on the jumbotron. It sounds nice, but then you think what kind of freakishly bad season does a kid have to have to post a .875 OPS in September and still have a season OPS at .614 OPS. We don’t really have to get into Morneau’s season numbers since they speak for themselves.

Now Johnny, win-loss records for position players is a new low of obfuscation. We all should know by now to take pitcher W-L records with a grain of salt but at least there’s a method to that madness. Figuring out a W-L record for games position players have played have even less to do with that position player than the pitcher did. It’s a nice little three card monty game but it means absolutely nothing.

But yeah, it’s fun to play “Metrodome scoreboard” sometimes, Johnny. We’re all Twins homers after all.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 2:06 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs

the numbers dont (necessarily) mean much,

but they are pretty interesting anyway.

Johnny didn’t say Punto’s +1 makes him worth $4million, or that Morneau’s -5 means we should trade him now while his value is high.

He’s just presenting facts, just as his title implies (yes the numbers we choose to use can create an argument or analysis by themselves, but the win-loss records are kinda fun to look at even if they are somewhat ‘meaningless’) deep breath nate.

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 20, 2009 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions

Hey it's like Wally Holland said in Little Big League

“He’s batting .276 on days starting with T, east of the Mississippi in games that start at 7PM local time.”

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions

I think its more like what Bill Murray said in Stripes:

“I dislike Johnny Safron and his self-righteous, hyper defensive, super critical personna as much as the next guy, but this post isn’t part of that personna – so lighten up Francis.”

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 20, 2009 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions

* that was Bill Murray's character who said that, right?

by montanatwinsfan on Sep 20, 2009 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions

it was the drill sargeant

by cooldude on Sep 21, 2009 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions

No, I like Johnny

I just don’t like the manipulation of numbers implying that Nick Punto is in any way a better player than Justin Morneau.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions

That's not what

That’s not what he was doing, it’s just a funny stat, that’s all, geez man.

"You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the damn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all."
~ Earl Weaver
"In God we trust. All others must provide evidence."
~ Billy Beane

by AdamOnFirst on Sep 21, 2009 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions

And which 3 rookies were in the lineup?

Tolbert, who went 0 for 0.
Morales (who is awesome) and went 1 for 3 with a walk.

Who else?

Delmon Young was 2 for 3, and then of course the usual (non-rookie) suspects filled out the rest of the box score.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 2:12 AM EDT reply actions

Buscher.

by lookatthosetwins on Sep 20, 2009 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions

Does he qualify as a rookie?

If so his failure to swing at any pitch last night certainly should help his ROY candidacy.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 20, 2009 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions

Johnny Safron

reminds me of Ed Begley Jr. in the Simpsons episode where he drives around a ‘green’ vehicle that is powered by his own sense of self satisfaction.

I always loved that one.

by FoulJack on Sep 20, 2009 4:50 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs

WHy's everyone so hard on Johnny for this one?

He’s just posting some weird statistical numbers. i think it is pretty funny and weird that Punto has more hits than Morneau since the break. Shows how tough it’s been for Morneau with the back…

by AdamOnFirst on Sep 21, 2009 4:35 AM EDT reply actions

Agreed

I found the post amusing – easily Johnny’s best work.

"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein

by BeefMaster on Sep 21, 2009 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions

all about context

If you read this post on its own, those stats are pretty funny.

But if you read it as continuing the less-neau post, it’s not about the stats, it’s about attacking Morneau. I think you can legitimately see this post either way.

by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Sep 21, 2009 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions

Johnny posted something a while back about how bad Morneau's second half was

When news broke that Morneau had a broken back, instead of easing up, Johnny sort of doubled down and started making ridiculous statements like Morneau handed the division to the Tigers. This post is even more ridiculous. I’m not saying Johnny needs to grow up or start using stats in a more sincere way, but there’s just something a little class-less about picking on a ballplayer with a broken back.

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 21, 2009 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

danger

that’s the danger of posting stats and just letting them hang out there to be interpreted.

by wcooley on Sep 21, 2009 10:32 AM EDT reply actions

Pretty much.

by Jesse on Sep 21, 2009 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions

No, that's the beauty of it

http://www.noogenesis.com/pineapple/blind_men_elephant.html

Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.

by Johnny Safron on Sep 23, 2009 12:57 AM EDT up reply actions

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions

Interesting lineup of numbers.

by Jesse on Sep 21, 2009 6:31 PM EDT reply actions

Johnny

I really like that poem. Clearly it applies to a lot more than theological wars. We’re all guilty of holding rigid opinions without questioning whether we really know enough on the subject.

Regarding the discussion of whether these are “meaningless” or “misleading” statistics, I really disagree. Punto hitting better than Morneau isn’t meaningful in the sense of indicating that he is a better player, but it is important to note that he has contributed more to the recent winning streak than Morneau. That is a reasonable conclusion, and there is no reason to get defensive about it.

This applies to the winning records too. While it isn’t a sound statement to make that a player with a better winning percentage is therefor a better player, it is still interesting to note. And sometimes, it has to do with players having just played well at the right times such that they could impact the outcome of games.

by snolls on Sep 23, 2009 9:06 AM EDT reply actions

That would be fine and good if Johnny' descended from Heaven with this post

to teach us all a lesson about judging an elephant. It’s one thing to make a point about holding rigid opinions and it’s quite another to hide behind a poem once you’ve thrown out stats on a Twins blog with no explanation and people are skeptical because of your previous, hyperbolic statements. The meek might inherit the earth in real life, but on this Twins blog they need to back themselves up with evidence. And I’m sorry snolls, but if it’s important to note that Punto has contributed more to the recent winning streak than Morneau, it’s equally important to note that that’s because Morneau is out for the season with a broken back.

Fortunately for us, Johnny’s previous comments form a lasting record so we don’t have to blindly stumble about for his meaning of this post. Here are some of Johnny’s recent comments on Justin Morneau:

“…for three seasons Morneau has finished the season as more or less Nick Punto.”

“Four months of production: $11.6 million.

Flailing through eight crucial August games: eight 2-run losses.

Handing over the division to the Tigers: pathetic."

“Can someone tell Morneau this isn’t a Short Season A league?
What a perfectly awful post All-Star showing he’s had.”

my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!

by natetheskate on Sep 23, 2009 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I'll concur here...

it’s quite another to hide behind a poem once you’ve thrown out stats on a Twins blog with no explanation

Yeah, I think the technical term for this is “weasel-like”. :-) You get to infer things while maintaining deniability that you even said anything. If you’ve got a point to make, don’t be a coward and come out and state your point!

by DavidRF on Sep 23, 2009 1:54 PM EDT reply actions