Less-neau
by Johnny Safron on Sep 2, 2009 1:04 AM EDT
41 comments
Wow, this makes three consecutive seasons of crippling second-half slides for Justin Morneau.
Batting about .170 for the past month. Hit the All-Star mark with 70 RBI and has yet to crack 100 for the season.
It hasn't been as bad as 2007, when his second-half OPS was about .240 below his first half, but it's hard to match a dip that deep.
You could argue the inner ear problem affected him, but this isn't an isolated half-season, it's a habit.
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if and when he heats up, he could very easily carry this team to another pennant.
by ianmader on Sep 2, 2009 2:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He certainly in not inspiring fear
in opposing pitchers.
If they catch on, they will pitch around Mauer and go after Morneau, thus avoiding Kubel.
by Old Twins Cap on Sep 2, 2009 8:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Frustrating to watch
I was just thinking about this the other day and how Morneau did not participate in the home run derby this year because he thought that affected his 2nd half performance the previous two years. I was also thinking about how some people thought Mauer would be messed up by participating in the home run derby and how he was able to pretty much pick up where he left off.
I think Morneau’s biggest problem right now is that he is trying to hit the ball in the upper deck with every swing instead of doing what he did in 2006, his MVP year, when he was driving the ball to all fields. He seems really pull-happy right now, more so than usual.
by Sheldon on Sep 2, 2009 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
where
are all the Morneau is the REAL MVP peeps now?
by Milt on Tilt on Sep 2, 2009 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha
Interestingly enough, the Twins have been playing very well since Morneau’s been sick/ineffective.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Sep 2, 2009 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well?
Not at all. They did win when he was completely out of the lineup — which might say more for how bad he has been than anything else.
But Morneau has been in a month-long dive, and in that time the Twins continued to play as they have in most months: .500. That’s not what anyone, even in this division, could call “very well.”
They played “very well” in June, relative to the rest of the months. They were three games over .500.
Morneau’s free-fall has been going on since August 1, and only a rally at the end of August pushed the Twins to a .500 month.
Since August 1 all of Morneau’s offensive numbers have been a straight line south, and the Twins played mediocre ball. Just like the did all year. So the really interesting thing is that, with him completely on the sidelines for about 7 games in later August, the team had a nice run. Other than that, the Twins really haven’t played very well all season. In fact, they should have done much better against the August schedule than they really did.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 2, 2009 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring to just the period since he was out with the ear infection
But you’re right, his poor play started well before that.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Sep 3, 2009 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Morneau has a slump
And you guys write him off? Fickle.
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any one of us." -Kirby Puckett
No, you don't understand It’s a metaphor for A SERIES SWEEP!!!!!!! -natethejinx
by less cowbell, more 'neau on Sep 2, 2009 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God forbid anyone point out that he's been an anchor for a month, and it's the 3rd straight season he's tanked
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 2, 2009 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is somewhat of a trend
Morneau’s career:
1st half: .299/.365/.541
2nd half: .264/.338/.464
It’s sure frustrating to watch him seeminly always do poorly in August/September, but it’s still not like those early season games count any less. FWIW, Mauer’s also been a much better 1st half hitter in his career.
by Mike I on Sep 2, 2009 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not stray away from the original post and parameters
That’s a common pitfall on these threads.
So let’s right the ship.
1) We’re not talking about his “career” numbers. We are speaking exclusively about the past three seasons.
2) We’re not comparing him to Mauer.
“Seemingly?” There is no “seemingly” here. Morneau has fallen off the table the second half of each of the past three seasons.
And it’s not as if he’s getting paid any less for the late-season games.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 2, 2009 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure is a lot of bitching
for someone unwilling to look up the stats himself and posting them here.
Sorry for straying off of your “parameters.” I was addressing the part of the post that said “this isn’t an isolated half-season, it’s a habit,” and providing evidence to support that sentiment (just like you – though I would hardly call any of your posts “evidence” of anything).
by Mike I on Sep 3, 2009 2:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're off track again
Of course I looked them up. That’s kind of a departure here. I had a supposition, and then I proceeded to see if it was correct, rather than posting first and then finding out if I was right.
As for the posts: Don’t like ‘em? Don’t read ’em. Although reading might help your troubled comprehension skills.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 3, 2009 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get it, Johnny
Mike I was agreeing with you.
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 4, 2009 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Slumps happen
He got out of whack when he couldn’t play for a week. All it takes is one good at bat and he’ll get back in the groove.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 2, 2009 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was so far behind Thornton's fastball Tuesday night it was sad
Thornton three five of them. One was a strike that Morneau let fly by, and it was called a ball. He fouled one off. He looked at a strike. And he swung so late on the other two, including strike 3, that altogether you had to wonder about the guy.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 2, 2009 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember when snolls suggested we bench Mauer?
He was in a similar slump. The next day, he went 4-4 with a home run. And he hasn’t stopped hitting since.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 2, 2009 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yes I do remember that
now Milt on Tilt is suggesting we trade Nathan, and snolls is suggesting we trade the #1 DH in the league (although I can see his point but its still kinda stupid).
Next thing we know Milt on Tilt will be suggesting we trade Morneau and Span…
"Don't take life for granted, because tomorrow isn't promised to any of us." - Kirby Puckett
by 33MorneauMVP on Sep 2, 2009 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought his argument was more about resting Mauer
than about Mauer being in a slump.
But anyway, point taken – players get in slumps all the time and you just have to wait them out.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Sep 2, 2009 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes,
even though Snolls used the word “bench” it was clear he meant “rest” and it was clear he simply meant carefully limit his playing time to ensure he remains a force throughout the entire second half. It may have been overly cautious, but it was not “kinda stupid”.
We could probably get a lot of booty for Morneau and Span right now.
by montanatwinsfan on Sep 2, 2009 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Booty?
What booty? To what end? People around here want to trade all our valuable commodities for what? Nobody seems to appreciate how hard it is to develop good players. When you get them, you hang onto them. Sheesh.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 2, 2009 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Morneau is cold!
Don’t you know that the key to developing a winning ballclub is to sell low on your star players after they play poorly for a month!
/sarcasm
by Mike I on Sep 2, 2009 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was faceciousness
- too lazy to go look up faceciousness
by montanatwinsfan on Sep 2, 2009 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oops
I meant I am too lazy to go look up how to spell, faceciousness. But as long as I’m taking the time I’ll respond to your “sheesh”. Actually, given the Twins’ financial limitations a GM needs to take a good hard look at all of his/her options. When a player becomes overpriced, it is foolish to retain them for purposes of “sentimentality” or any other reason. Developing talent internally is what the Twins need to do, and as we know, all teams are relying more and more heavily upon homegrown talent rather than overpay in tight financial times.
When a player gets good, organizations have to pay them market value or trade them for cheaper talent. If we have several players who are eating up a disproportionate amout of salary, some other part of the team has to be sub-par, or the Twins have to get lucky. But there are plenty of teams who have made a good living off of assessing value vs. cost and trading good players (or letting them walk in free agency) rather than hamstring the team with the cost of paying them.
Obviously Span does not yet fit that profile. But Santana, Hunter, and whatshisname secondbaseman Castillo did. (OK Castillo was not homegrown – and technically Santana wasn’t really either but he might as well have been).
I think it is more foolish of fans to rip and gnash and scream “never” at the thought of trading an expensive piece, than it is for fans to speculate about the potential utility of such a trade.
by montanatwinsfan on Sep 2, 2009 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wholeheartedly agree
but I don’t think we have any veteran players (aside from Punto and maybe Cuddyer) who are overpriced at the moment. The “trade Nathan” and this Morneau thread seem especially driven by fickle/shortsighted overreactions. And it’s not always a sure thing to get good value in return when you trade away your highly-priced veterans. Teams are getting more stingy hanging onto young major leaguers and top prospects.
by Mike I on Sep 2, 2009 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The word he used was "Bench"
To me, that means giving him an extended stay on the bench and watching Mike Redmond flail away with the glove and the bat.
"You're thinking too much. Just have fun." -- Bennie "The Jet" Rodriguez in Sandlot
by cmathewson on Sep 2, 2009 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but there was a reason...
snolls idea was that perhaps Mauer was wearing down due to fatigue, and they should give him an extended rest, maybe just playing him twice a week for a week or two to freshen him up (for lack of a better phrase). It was a radical idea, sure, and Mauer’s August rebound made it look kind of silly in retrospect, but it’s not as outright insane as you’re making it sound – it’s not like he wanted to bench him as punishment for poor play.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Sep 3, 2009 2:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mauer's "slump"
Remember when snolls suggested we bench Mauer?
Mauer’s slump was a few games/ a week or two. If Mr. Saffron is correct Morneau has been a lead ballon for over a month now.
by montanatwinsfan on Sep 2, 2009 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he is correct
since July 28th:
.180/.278/.320
by Milt on Tilt on Sep 2, 2009 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy cow
I know it was bad… I didn’t know it was THAT bad. Basically, the Twins could’ve had Matt Tolbert batting cleanup for the last month, and the only difference would’ve been a shorter target at first base.
"There are only two things that are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." - Albert Einstein
by BeefMaster on Sep 3, 2009 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No excuse
He was slumping before the ear problem. He just does not carry his success into the second half. We need Morneau for the whole season. Put Kubel behind Mauer, move up Cuddy and have Morneau bat 6th. I know changing things that much now is not going to happen, but Morneau needs to figure this out. He is a broken link at this time of the year. It happens once we call it a funk, but now it is a habit.
by dakotajim on Sep 2, 2009 11:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Relax
More-no is streaky. I don’t know if this is my morning scotch and soda talking but I predict a hot streak to finish out the year!
by wcooley on Sep 2, 2009 11:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
this is why I hold out hope that we can win the division
if Morneau does turn things around, he can carry the club offensively.
by Milt on Tilt on Sep 2, 2009 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's his swing
It’s not as smooth and repeatable as Mauer’s, making him much less consistent. But we’ve seen what he can do when he finds his swing
Son, when you participate in sporting events, it's not whether you win or lose: it's how drunk you get. ~Homer Simpson
by thewild_viking_twins on Sep 2, 2009 2:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mauer is catching up to Morneau in HRs
Maybe that will light a fire in Justin and get him hitting again.
by what_would_gil_thorp_do on Sep 2, 2009 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thanks guys
I’m glad that I was completely unnecessary to have my point made. You guys covered it for me.
That said, I’ll jump in now. You are exactly right that my argument was based on the following: Mauer plays better in the first half, catching is hard on your legs, strong legs are important for hitting, so maybe him playing less and catching less would help him hit better late in the season.
I think the same is true in discussing Morneau. I mentioned this in my other post, but I think the Twins should aim next year to have the DH spot be rotational. You can do this, as long as you have enough players that can hit and play in the field (they don’t have to be gold glovers).
Morneau has struggled in the second half the last three years. That also, interestingly, is essentially when he began playing 160 games per year (he did in 2006 as well). I wonder how much stronger he would be right now, if he was able to DH 1-2 times per week, and maybe even take a day off every other week. He could time DH and day off days so that he could put some harder workouts, and he might maintain his strength better. Or alternatively, it might really just be the day off that he needs, no workout.
by snolls on Sep 3, 2009 7:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It’s already spread quite well:
DH days:
kubel 75
mauer 23
morneau 12
young 8
Buscher 4
cuddyer 3
crede 2
A day’s rest has a high revival effect, and a day of batting only also does.
A total of 23 DH games for Mauer and 12 for Morneau are ample. Every regular gets tired at the end of the season. The bat gets heavy. It’s more of a grind than the minor leagues. But they’re all in the same boat, and Gardenhire has done a great job of spreading these around, a decision made easier by Delmon’s inept fielding coupled with his mediocre offense blended with Kubel’s ability to get back into the field, which at one time in his career was doubted.
Mauer, Morneau and Young have combined to DH on average twice a week. That’s a great real-life job of spreading it around. In addition to the 12 DH games, Morneau has also had about a week off, compared to last year when he played 163 games, 8 at DH. So he’s had more rest than last year but his late-season slump has been worse.
Rest is not the issue here.
And unlike Fantasy Leagues, a decision by managers has a domino effect. We’ve seen what the defense is like without Morneau at first. Likewise at catcher. It’s not as if a DH rotation solves any problem, and it creates others.
Despite the pockets of wrath directed at Torii Hunter for heading west, it was wise in that it spared him two seasons of playing on that turf. Next season, all the Twins’ players benefit.
Coupled with Gardenhire’s current DH strategy, playing on real grass will benefit the the Twins.
And don’t forget: It’s September. Pitchers get tired, too.
Bloggin' the bloggers since 1938.
by Johnny Safron on Sep 7, 2009 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shame on you, Johnny
my floor is looking pretty dirty... BETTER GET OUT THE BROOM!!!
by natetheskate on Sep 15, 2009 12:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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